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General/Other - Smoke XL Robo Smoke Discussion Thread

Jeffrey Wolf

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
Oh, I get that it would completely suck in tournament. I just haven't had it happen yet at all really. I'm sure my opinion will change once it does.
 
Geoffmeister

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
boba_buster said:
Would jus like to point out that foxy ex rolled thru scars 21 ender into b3. :)
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B3 is guaranteed, Scar must've misstimed while Foxy was making a read on the overhead.

Either way, don't pick Smoke versus Mileena, guys.. just don't. It baffles me how that MU is so bad for him while technically having the tools to challenge her, yet I've seen no Mileena player consciously take advantage of it since his release. Roll alone makes this a 7-3 in her favor.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Geoffmeister said:
B3 is guaranteed, Scar must've misstimed while Foxy was making a read on the overhead.

Either way, don't pick Smoke versus Mileena, guys.. just don't. It baffles me how that MU is so bad for him while technically having the tools to challenge her, yet I've seen no Mileena player consciously take advantage of it since his release. Roll alone makes this a 7-3 in her favor.
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That was my point , that's why I say use something that jails if you think they will armor , I myself like to make the reads as opposed to just hoping my opponent guesses wrong but that's just my opinion. Why do you say roll makes it a bad mu? I think it's a pretty fair mu. Smoke is great for baiting stuff by his nature
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
boba_buster said:
That was my point , that's why I say use something that jails if you think they will armor , I myself like to make the reads as opposed to just hoping my opponent guesses wrong but that's just my opinion. Why do you say roll makes it a bad mu? I think it's a pretty fair mu. Smoke is great for baiting stuff by his nature
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B3 jails
 
Geoffmeister

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
boba_buster said:
That was my point , that's why I say use something that jails if you think they will armor , I myself like to make the reads as opposed to just hoping my opponent guesses wrong but that's just my opinion. Why do you say roll makes it a bad mu? I think it's a pretty fair mu. Smoke is great for baiting stuff by his nature
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I'm not sure this is even supposed to be intentional.

1: Ball Roll allows Mileena to punish (most) gaps without the use of a bar (wth, seriously)
2: Ball Roll low profiles Smoke's D1 while he is in PLUS PRESSURE (see for yourself, try it with the +4 tech)
3: Ball Roll low profiles Smoke's F4 ALSO while in plus pressure, not much of a true mid in this MU

This means a lot. He basically loses any pressure he has against her (think about it), and she doesn't even have to commit to a resource like anyone else to beat the situation, wrong read (or a bait by Smoke as you mention) would result in her breaking the situation because of excess meter.
IMO, You're already committing to winning more exchanges when playing Smoke against nearly every other variation, this increases that disadvantage even more. And Piercing isn't exactly the type of variation you wanna be confident in beating neutral multiple times.
Couple this with Smoke being vulnerable to launching armor (as anything into (EX/) Smoke Bomb should be possible to react to, not always but mostly) and you have yourself a really handicapped MU.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Geoffmeister said:
I'm not sure this is even supposed to be intentional.

1: Ball Roll allows Mileena to punish (most) gaps without the use of a bar (wth, seriously)
2: Ball Roll low profiles Smoke's D1 while he is in PLUS PRESSURE (see for yourself, try it with the +4 tech)
3: Ball Roll low profiles Smoke's F4 ALSO while in plus pressure, not much of a true mid in this MU

This means a lot. He basically loses any pressure he has against her (think about it), and she doesn't even have to commit to a resource like anyone else to beat the situation, wrong read (or a bait by Smoke as you mention) would result in her breaking the situation because of excess meter.
IMO, You're already committing to winning more exchanges when playing Smoke against nearly every other variation, this increases that disadvantage even more. And Piercing isn't exactly the type of variation you wanna be confident in beating neutral multiple times.
Couple this with Smoke being vulnerable to launching armor (as anything into (EX/) Smoke Bomb should be possible to react to, not always but mostly) and you have yourself a really handicapped MU.
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Well when you put it like that , yea I guess your right , makes perfect sense
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Geoffmeister said:
I'm not sure this is even supposed to be intentional.

1: Ball Roll allows Mileena to punish (most) gaps without the use of a bar (wth, seriously)
2: Ball Roll low profiles Smoke's D1 while he is in PLUS PRESSURE (see for yourself, try it with the +4 tech)
3: Ball Roll low profiles Smoke's F4 ALSO while in plus pressure, not much of a true mid in this MU

This means a lot. He basically loses any pressure he has against her (think about it), and she doesn't even have to commit to a resource like anyone else to beat the situation, wrong read (or a bait by Smoke as you mention) would result in her breaking the situation because of excess meter.
IMO, You're already committing to winning more exchanges when playing Smoke against nearly every other variation, this increases that disadvantage even more. And Piercing isn't exactly the type of variation you wanna be confident in beating neutral multiple times.
Couple this with Smoke being vulnerable to launching armor (as anything into (EX/) Smoke Bomb should be possible to react to, not always but mostly) and you have yourself a really handicapped MU.
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I entirely agree - the rest of Mileena being strong isn't the issue for Smoke, it's the way that ball interacts with the character in general.
 
Scott The Scot

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
21122 said:
What fixes and buffs are you guys wanting for the "EVO" patch?
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Honestly, assuming other characters get buffs and nerfs I think Smoke is probably fine where he is. His meterless damage kind of sucks but that's fine considering he gets a lot of oppertunities to mix the opponent up.

I would ask that they fix Triborgs D1 getting low profiled by other characters pokes. It's his fastest poke and sometimes he can't use it to get out of pressure or challenge frame traps since people can D3 or D4 under his poke when they shouldn't be able to. I would like the same problem fixed with his F4, for a mid sometimes it doesn't feel like it works like it should all the time.

B21's mid should actually be a mid and not a pseudo mid in which some characters can duck it sometimes.

For luxury I'd like it if Smoke bomb scaled less in combos and 21 should have enough cancel advantage on hit to connect a Smoke Bomb.

Other than those little issues he's a pretty good character and can handle a lot of matchups. But mids not working is just the most frustrating thing in a character.
 
Geoffmeister

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
21122 said:
What fixes and buffs are you guys wanting for the "EVO" patch?
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- D1 doesnt whiff on low profiles...
- F214 and F43 doesnt whiff on crouchblock
- Improve low profile on Teleport (and EX TP) startup

As for B21, maybe make it bit more worthwhile against some MU's (given it's intentional).
For example, I don't see why B21 whiffs on Sub Zero on crouchblock while that's his only way around the midscreen clone, which you can only do at certain distance as well.

edit: been thinking about EX Phase having 0 recovery so he could block after active invincibility frames, this way he could block projectiles or SZ's Clone for example. I don't think this would affect throws beating Phase but I'm interested in peoples thought on this.
 
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boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Noticed b1 smoke bomb always seems to connect midscreen if it's following up a poke on hit. Did it on accident a few times and have since been doing it on purpose to see if it'll work everytime. Haven't tested it per say but it hasn't failed yet. Anyone else noticed this? Has it been talked about befor? Anyone wanna actually test it? Srry I'm jus lazy sum times
 
tafka Djinn

tafka Djinn

One for three off the roof
boba_buster said:
Noticed b1 smoke bomb always seems to connect midscreen if it's following up a poke on hit. Did it on accident a few times and have since been doing it on purpose to see if it'll work everytime. Haven't tested it per say but it hasn't failed yet. Anyone else noticed this? Has it been talked about befor? Anyone wanna actually test it? Srry I'm jus lazy sum times
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I can't test till the weekend, but I don't see why that would be a thing. That makes me doubly want to test it, if somebody else tests it before then I'd be quite interested in the results.
 
21122

21122

Kombatant
Tested

Doesn't work

Edit:

@boba_buster

The reason I believe you think this happens is because if an opponent is crouching midscreen and isn't fully in your face, B1~smoke bomb will connect.
 
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boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
K I did a little testing and yea it's iffy at best , seems to be a crouch block thing. On sub zero and mileena it always connects on hit as long as you hit them crouch blocking , if you hit them just standing then the smoke bomb won't connect. Tried it on goro and it didn't seem to work at all.
 
Darth Rambo

Darth Rambo

GT:DarthxXxRambo PSN:Darth__Rambo
boba_buster said:
K I did a little testing and yea it's iffy at best , seems to be a crouch block thing. On sub zero and mileena it always connects on hit as long as you hit them crouch blocking , if you hit them just standing then the smoke bomb won't connect. Tried it on goro and it didn't seem to work at all.
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I thought its been known from day one b1 smokebomb would connect on crouch blocking smaller hitbox characters? Unless im wrong?
 
21122

21122

Kombatant
Hey guys, is F21 (on hit)~fade into 1 guaranteed? I read it was but for some reason sometimes I get poked out. So im not sure if its my timing or its not actually guaranteed?
 
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