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General/Other - Smoke XL Robo Smoke Discussion Thread

PLAY FOR KEEPSIES

PLAY FOR KEEPSIES

No backsies
been maining him a few months now, very underrated character! i think there is a lot of misinformation out there about him ,he isnt broken like som esay but definitely not underpowered
 
21122

21122

Kombatant
You can still get a pseudo 50/50 with smoke after the B1 nerf.

F21 ~ fade (+9-10) into B1/B3. Your opponent cant see through the smoke and the "pseudo" 50/50 comes from the fact you can make your opponent respect 111 after F21 ~ fade on hit as its guaranteed.

With B3 1 frame faster you can still catch people pressing button since they will have to do a 7f or faster move to beat the b3.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
  • Triborg - Away+FP now has 22 startup frames (up from 18) and 4 more hit cancel advantage
  • Looks like b1 smoke bomb may connect meterless midscreen on everybody ,That would be nice. Hopefully the fixed b21 whiffing issues and it just didn't make it to the patch notes yet.
 
Geoffmeister

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
zaccbarias said:
so how's smoke? i heard f43 ex teleport s4, db1, s4, bf+1 doesnt work anymore?
Click to expand...
That still works.
- The overhead being slower makes it harder to hit meaty but that still works too.
- There were no hitbox changes, f214/f43 will still RANDOMLY whiff on some crouchblocking opponents (...)
- Teleport still gets hit by high-projectiles
- Biggest buff for him were armored launchers taking a huge hit, makes some MU's easier but still has 7-3's against him.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Yea b21 still whiffs on crouch block too , and the added cancel advantage of b1 didn't seem to help with b1xsmoke cloud.
I did find the other day that b2xxex spear is a true block string and they can't neutral duck the ex spear, Helps against ppl that know that b21 whiffs and the gap can even be d3'ed d1'ed etc.
 
Z

zaccbarias

Noob
Geoffmeister said:
That still works.
- The overhead being slower makes it harder to hit meaty but that still works too.
- There were no hitbox changes, f214/f43 will still RANDOMLY whiff on some crouchblocking opponents (...)
- Teleport still gets hit by high-projectiles
- Biggest buff for him were armored launchers taking a huge hit, makes some MU's easier but still has 7-3's against him.
Click to expand...
okay, the patch notes said the smoke bomb will not work on airborne opponents anymore. so i guess thats weird.

Thanks, man.
 
Geoffmeister

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
boba_buster said:
Yea b21 still whiffs on crouch block too , and the added cancel advantage of b1 didn't seem to help with b1xsmoke cloud.
I did find the other day that b2xxex spear is a true block string and they can't neutral duck the ex spear, Helps against ppl that know that b21 whiffs and the gap can even be d3'ed d1'ed etc.
Click to expand...
B2-trident is useful against a few characters, however several characters already make b21 whiff during crouchblock so it's lost on those... at least B21 works consistently, so you know your options.
Completely random whiffs (f43/f214) cost you the game, only option here is to not consider it an option in certain MUs.

zaccbarias said:
okay, the patch notes said the smoke bomb will not work on airborne opponents anymore. so i guess thats weird.

Thanks, man.
Click to expand...
I think by airborne they meant a few inches off the ground, so it's easier to get out of pressure or even punish, for which characters I'm not sure yet.. doesn't affect juggling combos, though.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Geoffmeister said:
B2-trident is useful against a few characters, however several characters already make b21 whiff during crouchblock so it's lost on those... at least B21 works consistently, so you know your options.
Completely random whiffs (f43/f214) cost you the game, only option here is to not consider it an option in certain MUs.



I think by airborne they meant a few inches off the ground, so it's easier to get out of pressure or even punish, for which characters I'm not sure yet.. doesn't affect juggling combos, though.
Click to expand...
B2(1) whiffing is what I'm talking about , b2xxextrident won't whiff and will catch them if they try neutral ducking the (1) or trying to knock you out of it.
Comes into play a lot with gm sub zero , b21 whiffs consistently against him when he's crouch blocking
 
EMPEROR PRYCE

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
boba_buster said:
B2(1) whiffing is what I'm talking about , b2xxextrident won't whiff and will catch them if they try neutral ducking the (1) or trying to knock you out of it.
Comes into play a lot with gm sub zero , b21 whiffs consistently against him when he's crouch blocking
Click to expand...
And yet another patch where this hitbox issue makes it thru unseen
 
Geoffmeister

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
boba_buster said:
B2(1) whiffing is what I'm talking about , b2xxextrident won't whiff and will catch them if they try neutral ducking the (1) or trying to knock you out of it.
Comes into play a lot with gm sub zero , b21 whiffs consistently against him when he's crouch blocking
Click to expand...
That's what I was trying to say, it's actually useless on Sub Zero. If he only needs to crouchblock to make B21 whiff, he can confirm the block and punish your trident, at least with the characters where it doesn't whiff on crouchblock they have a reason to neutral crouch.
Applies to about 10 characters though, but not SZ.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Geoffmeister said:
That's what I was trying to say, it's actually useless on Sub Zero. If he only needs to crouchblock to make B21 whiff, he can confirm the block and punish your trident, at least with the characters where it doesn't whiff on crouchblock they have a reason to neutral crouch.
Applies to about 10 characters though, but not SZ.
Click to expand...
Little confusion here , what I'm saying is use b2 ex trident. It's a true block string so if they do anything other than block (neutral duck , poke, armor etc. ) the ex trident will hit them. They have to just block so it can make them respect the b2 a little more. It's safe on block as well
 
Geoffmeister

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
boba_buster said:
Little confusion here , what I'm saying is use b2 ex trident. It's a true block string so if they do anything other than block (neutral duck , poke, armor etc. ) the ex trident will hit them. They have to just block so it can make them respect the b2 a little more. It's safe on block as well
Click to expand...
I just noticed you were talking about EX Tri, I was on about regular.. it's not a bad use of resource (would prefer EX Smoke Bomb) but my point still stands.. SZ has no reason to release block on B21 and therefore doesn't have to worry about the mix/mindgame B2-trident, B21 will whiff anyway.

Take Cassie (for example), B21 will only whiff if she neutral crouches it (both if B2 is on block or whiffed), she would be a better opponent to use B2-EX trident against, because if she releases block to go for a punish, she'll get hit.
(Regardless, I think in this situation EX Smoke Bomb is actually better but that depends on your opponents reactions, if they're not jumping out/using armor after B2 (which is unusual) then EX-Trident shouldn't be used yet).
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Geoffmeister said:
I just noticed you were talking about EX Tri, I was on about regular.. it's not a bad use of resource (would prefer EX Smoke Bomb) but my point still stands.. SZ has no reason to release block on B21 and therefore doesn't have to worry about the mix/mindgame B2-trident, B21 will whiff anyway.

Take Cassie (for example), B21 will only whiff if she neutral crouches it (both if B2 is on block or whiffed), she would be a better opponent to use B2-EX trident against, because if she releases block to go for a punish, she'll get hit.
(Regardless, I think in this situation EX Smoke Bomb is actually better but that depends on your opponents reactions, if they're not jumping out/using armor after B2 (which is unusual) then EX-Trident shouldn't be used yet).
Click to expand...
Very good points
 
21122

21122

Kombatant
Played smoke for a while yesterday. I think he is still good post-patch, B1/F13 nerfs hurt him a bit, but I still think he is strong.

I just stagger F1 instead of F13 now.

My new gameplan with smoke in regards to 50/50s are:

BnB into F21~Fade and from there I do the following:
1. Guaranteed 1 ~ whatever mixup (grab, full string, stagger etc..)
2. B1/B3 ~ smoke bomb (psuedo 50/50) have to make your opponent respect the guaranteed 1 before you try this shit out yo
3. Full B3 string
4. Bait armour
5. Cross Jump (bait armour, counter poke attempts)

Once I start getting to stale with that or I notice my 50/50 game is starting to suffer (getting read on every 50/50 I make), I mix it up and play neutral and go for max damage.
 
Harlequin969

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
So what is the deal with fade. I've started doing it but don't truly understand the frames on it. I'd do f21 fade or b21 fade. What's the advantage?
 
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