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General/Other - Smoke XL Robo Smoke Discussion Thread

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
How you goin with those combos? :D
just wondering, would people like a video of all my smoke combos and how i end to keep advantage midscreen without sacrificing much damage at all, or do ppl jst want to see smoke's highest damage corner combos? or both? does anyone care about the first part?
 

6ixty9

Noob
Honestly i find the first part more useful as big numbers arent always what wins you games... midscreen advantage is far more useful imo than knowing a big ass combo for the corner you get to use every now and then.

No harm in doing both though? If it has to be one i'd definitely prefer the first part
 

21122

Premium
Premium Supporter
Guys, since normal phase has invincibility at the start you can freely avoid armored reversals after F21 ~ 0.5 second delay into phase.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
So to expand on something noted a long time ago , ending a combo in 114xx invisability is safe and great for baiting wake ups. What I noticed today doing the jump test is that your actually still pretty plus after. Seems to be more plus than ex smoke bomb on block so more than +5? So in the corner once they start respecting it and not waking up it leaves some nice strike throw mix ups on the table. Need to do some more testing to see what's follows up well when they don't wake up or delay wake up
 
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GrimJack

Rock paper scissor specialist
what is your options against someone who constantly mash low pokes out of your +2 (after 1112 or 21). It goes under all high, smoke's d3 doesn't reach them, f4 or f2 is not fast enough to beat or get low profile?
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
New to this Smoke char here.

I'm learning right now the combos. I saw @Israfel 's videos about the combo guides. I'd like to improve myself on this, because I'm getting almost the hang on this. I need this char as a counterpick against Ermac players, since they keep doing their mid-air trolling when I play Sub Zero GM.
Can you guys tell me some tips on Smoke?
In Israfel's video I noticed that he finished his corner combo with F21. Why is that?
I saw that he didn't use much the F4D12 and the B3U4 or the B3D4U3, and I was wondering about this.
I know that the Skydrop tele is a yolo one, so I need to use it only on the combos, or if someone tries to zone on me, or if Ermac starts floating (mid air trolling).
Is there anything that I must keep in mind?

And sorry for the many questions about him, but...

And BTW, spare me the frame data, because I'm not the math guy here. I only know them by feeling if they're safe/unsafe/linkable/etc, if you know what do I mean.

Thank you.
 

GOOD DRAGON

Awesometacular
New to this Smoke char here.

I'm learning right now the combos. I saw @Israfel 's videos about the combo guides. I'd like to improve myself on this, because I'm getting almost the hang on this. I need this char as a counterpick against Ermac players, since they keep doing their mid-air trolling when I play Sub Zero GM.
Can you guys tell me some tips on Smoke?
In Israfel's video I noticed that he finished his corner combo with F21. Why is that?
I saw that he didn't use much the F4D12 and the B3U4 or the B3D4U3, and I was wondering about this.
I know that the Skydrop tele is a yolo one, so I need to use it only on the combos, or if someone tries to zone on me, or if Ermac starts floating (mid air trolling).
Is there anything that I must keep in mind?

And sorry for the many questions about him, but...

And BTW, spare me the frame data, because I'm not the math guy here. I only know them by feeling if they're safe/unsafe/linkable/etc, if you know what do I mean.

Thank you.
-For anti-airing b21 is really good- if you hit them with the 1 of the b21 you can do i f13 into spear and combo punish his flouty shenanigans. You can also use spear but i would only do that full screen and when you see them on their way down because it tracks but only when its close enough.

-Ending combos in f21 is great because you are temporarily hidden in the smoke so you can faze behind them or away from them or just stand there and grab or NJP so it gives you that mind game aspect if your opponent is respecting your options. If he doesn't and likes armouring then you can always backdash and jump in or faze away and whiff punish

-F4D12 is an amazing string the best advancing mids triborg has and only smoke has it. F4D1 is only -3 so generates a lot of mind games. The highest meter-less punish i found is - F4D12 (run) F4D1 (run) F4D1 grapple jump 2 S4 smoke bomb f43 airgrab - think its 32% meterless. (also F4D1 ex smoke bomb is great)

-In my opinion B21 is he's best string and 1 of the best in the game because it gives you 4 options- you can end it with a low or a high (the high makes pokes whiff). You can just block and bait or you can faze away and play the neutral again. (Bare in mind it does whiff on some female characters but theres a way to make it hit on crouch blocking opponents anyway)

Hope this helps matey mate :)
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
-For anti-airing b21 is really good- if you hit them with the 1 of the b21 you can do i f13 into spear and combo punish his flouty shenanigans. You can also use spear but i would only do that full screen and when you see them on their way down because it tracks but only when its close enough.

-Ending combos in f21 is great because you are temporarily hidden in the smoke so you can faze behind them or away from them or just stand there and grab or NJP so it gives you that mind game aspect if your opponent is respecting your options. If he doesn't and likes armouring then you can always backdash and jump in or faze away and whiff punish

-F4D12 is an amazing string the best advancing mids triborg has and only smoke has it. F4D1 is only -3 so generates a lot of mind games. The highest meter-less punish i found is - F4D12 (run) F4D1 (run) F4D1 grapple jump 2 S4 smoke bomb f43 airgrab - think its 32% meterless. (also F4D1 ex smoke bomb is great)

-In my opinion B21 is he's best string and 1 of the best in the game because it gives you 4 options- you can end it with a low or a high (the high makes pokes whiff). You can just block and bait or you can faze away and play the neutral again. (Bare in mind it does whiff on some female characters but theres a way to make it hit on crouch blocking opponents anyway)

Hope this helps matey mate :)
Everything so far is very interesting. I have only two objections about this.

As far as I learned by these combos, doing the F43xxAir Grab when your opponent is juggled makes it hard, because he won't grab him due of the F43's pressure pushing his opponent too far.

I noticed it when my buddy's Smoke played against my another buddy's Jason. He did this very B214, while his opponent crouched, and yet he could block both ends (3 and 4). If by way you mean the skydrop tele, then that's the only way to do it, or just do the smoke away. He even tried doing the B12xxTele Stomp, but he failed, because he could reach with it.

To be frank, I find his inputs a bit hard, but with some training I can manage them. I need to learn the timing from S4 to B21 or any other combos after the Smokeball.

And I did sometimes the F21xxGrab/3/4 for mind games to confuse my opponent when he tried blocking it. Will start learning about the other stuff.

Any tips on okizemeing them with Smoke?
 

GOOD DRAGON

Awesometacular
Everything so far is very interesting. I have only two objections about this.

As far as I learned by these combos, doing the F43xxAir Grab when your opponent is juggled makes it hard, because he won't grab him due of the F43's pressure pushing his opponent too far.

I noticed it when my buddy's Smoke played against my another buddy's Jason. He did this very B214, while his opponent crouched, and yet he could block both ends (3 and 4). If by way you mean the skydrop tele, then that's the only way to do it, or just do the smoke away. He even tried doing the B12xxTele Stomp, but he failed, because he could reach with it.

To be frank, I find his inputs a bit hard, but with some training I can manage them. I need to learn the timing from S4 to B21 or any other combos after the Smokeball.

And I did sometimes the F21xxGrab/3/4 for mind games to confuse my opponent when he tried blocking it. Will start learning about the other stuff.

Any tips on okizemeing them with Smoke?
Well i don't really have a problem with the air grab after F43 because F43 makes them air born and you just do the air grab straight after (you can find other options if you find air grab difficult)

- yes so the last hit of B214 whiffs on crouching opponents so i wouldn't really do it a lot.

-I am going to reveal my secret tech :( but if you do F4D1 smoke away into B21 it hits even though they are crouching - it raises their hurtbox or something for some reason. (Are you on MK right now? can you test it on jason?)

-For oki mix-ups after the grapple end it in 21 (plus 17 on hit) or jump 2 (plus 21 i think) and you can go for B3 (which they can't backdash) into smoke bomb (safe) or overhead ex smoke bomb (plus 5).
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Well i don't really have a problem with the air grab after F43 because F43 makes them air born and you just do the air grab straight after (you can find other options if you find air grab difficult)

- yes so the last hit of B214 whiffs on crouching opponents so i wouldn't really do it a lot.

-I am going to reveal my secret tech :( but if you do F4D1 smoke away into B21 it hits even though they are crouching - it raises their hurtbox or something for some reason. (Are you on MK right now? can you test it on jason?)

-For oki mix-ups after the grapple end it in 21 (plus 17 on hit) or jump 2 (plus 21 i think) and you can go for B3 (which they can't backdash) into smoke bomb (safe) or overhead ex smoke bomb (plus 5).
I was earlier in MK, but I'm taking a break from this training.

The only way to do the Air Grab is with F43 on the corner, if you find them juggled, or doing FJP after Smokeball or Tele Stomp or Trident, CP (Crossover Punch).

Interesting tech there. Will try it out once I hit MK again. How should I put the AI on to test this out? I'll test it on Jason or any other male.

BTW, so B21 stuff are yolo, too? Guess, I'll have to use it only at some occasions, like in the combos.

The rest very interesting.
 

GOOD DRAGON

Awesometacular
I was earlier in MK, but I'm taking a break from this training.

The only way to do the Air Grab is with F43 on the corner, if you find them juggled, or doing FJP after Smokeball or Tele Stomp or Trident, CP (Crossover Punch).

Interesting tech there. Will try it out once I hit MK again. How should I put the AI on to test this out? I'll test it on Jason or any other male.

BTW, so B21 stuff are yolo, too? Guess, I'll have to use it only at some occasions, like in the combos.

The rest very interesting.
It is hard but you can do the air grab after F43 midscreen from the ground because F43 starts the juggle. You can do it after smoke bomb - run F43 air grab. You can do it after a neutral jump run F43 air grab - all mid-screen. But it is upto you if you find something else you want to use.

You can test it on jason or sub-zero. Put the A.I to block ducking or neutral duck- it should work on both.

You don't have to be yolo with b21- i use pressure with smoke a lot to get my opponent to press buttons. So for example if the opponent blocks - B21 ex smoke bomb F4D1 faze away ( you can wait to see what they do, if they jump b21 punish if not) f13 smoke bomb (if they block safe) if they try and press buttons ex faze behind them and whiff punish.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Running before F43, eh? I thought it was just walking and such. Will try this out once I hit the training again.

I see. Thanks for the info about the AI settings. Will do so to test this out. What you said about it getting larger hurtboxes was kind of weird. I'll have to see it for myself to figure out what you were saying (or if there's already a video about this). I have never seen any character getting their hurtboxes raised.

About the B21, interesting. Will try them out. Just doing image training on them makes me think of many possible stuff there.

;)
 

GOOD DRAGON

Awesometacular
Running before F43, eh? I thought it was just walking and such. Will try this out once I hit the training again.

I see. Thanks for the info about the AI settings. Will do so to test this out. What you said about it getting larger hurtboxes was kind of weird. I'll have to see it for myself to figure out what you were saying (or if there's already a video about this). I have never seen any character getting their hurtboxes raised.

About the B21, interesting. Will try them out. Just doing image training on them makes me think of many possible stuff there.

;)
Ye i have never seen anyone else do it or realise what is happening so for all you other smoke players F4D1 faze away into B21 should work on small ducking hurtbox characters - but im copy writing that shiii lol
 

21122

Premium
Premium Supporter
New to this Smoke char here.

I'm learning right now the combos. I saw @Israfel 's videos about the combo guides. I'd like to improve myself on this, because I'm getting almost the hang on this. I need this char as a counterpick against Ermac players, since they keep doing their mid-air trolling when I play Sub Zero GM.
Can you guys tell me some tips on Smoke?
In Israfel's video I noticed that he finished his corner combo with F21. Why is that?
I saw that he didn't use much the F4D12 and the B3U4 or the B3D4U3, and I was wondering about this.
I know that the Skydrop tele is a yolo one, so I need to use it only on the combos, or if someone tries to zone on me, or if Ermac starts floating (mid air trolling).
Is there anything that I must keep in mind?

And sorry for the many questions about him, but...

And BTW, spare me the frame data, because I'm not the math guy here. I only know them by feeling if they're safe/unsafe/linkable/etc, if you know what do I mean.

Thank you.
In Israfel's video I noticed that he finished his corner combo with F21. Why is that?

Ending combos in F21~Fade leaves you at +9/10 that guarantees a 111/F1. This allows you to get Psuedo 50/50s.

So if your opponent hits a button and you do 111, you get a full combo punish.
Opponent blocks because they think yo will do 111/F1, you get a free 50/50 from B1/B3/Grab.
Also if your opponent tries to counter poke your B3, you can still punish them if their move is slower than the full B3 string.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
-I am going to reveal my secret tech :( but if you do F4D1 smoke away into B21 it hits even though they are crouching - it raises their hurtbox or something for some reason. (Are you on MK right now? can you test it on jason?)
I think that I found the culprit here. I tested this one for you.

The following characters get hit by Smoke's B21's second attack as it's a middle one, when blocked:

Jason
Kotal

The following characters get hit by Smoke's B21's both attacks as it's a middle one, when blocked:

Alien

The following characters don't get hit by Smoke's B21, when blocked:

Sub Zero
Kung Lao
Predator (even though he's huge)

Either Smoke has some hitboxes issues, or those characters do have hurtboxes issues against him. Usually, all of these characters when blocking should have to block the middle attacks, too. I don't see this happening to Sub Zero and such characters, thus there's a gap to them.
 

GOOD DRAGON

Awesometacular
I think that I found the culprit here. I tested this one for you.

The following characters get hit by Smoke's B21's second attack as it's a middle one, when blocked:

Jason
Kotal

The following characters get hit by Smoke's B21's both attacks as it's a middle one, when blocked:

Alien

The following characters don't get hit by Smoke's B21, when blocked:

Sub Zero
Kung Lao
Predator (even though he's huge)

Either Smoke has some hitboxes issues, or those characters do have hurtboxes issues against him. Usually, all of these characters when blocking should have to block the middle attacks, too. I don't see this happening to Sub Zero and such characters, thus there's a gap to them.
Interesting. I will look into this further with those characters