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General/Other - Kitana XL Kitana General Discussion

This is not an exhaustive list and is focused around RS/Assassin, more observations than anything.

I think she beats Cyrax, Cyber Sub-Zero, Kung Lao, Tanya, Jason, Bo Rai Cho and maybe Kenshi.

Up in the air or even(mostly even in this list): Mileena, Goro, Reptile, Ermac, Kung Jin, Jacqui etc.

I think Jax, Johnny, Predator, Sub-Zero, D'Vorah, CT Kano, Scorpion and Takeda can give her some trouble. Not saying terribly so, but a lot of them take advantage of her flaws really well. Good anti-zoning options, lot of low profiling and so on.


I'd say she's solid, but very fair and that there aren't any characters she outright destroys.
What about liu kang? How do you punish a blocked bycicle kick?
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
I used to think scorpion was tough but not anymore, even with his buffs. I play it the same way I did in mk9. Just play it safe and slow and use assassin. Im not saying she beats him like she did in mk9, but the MU isn't as bad as we thought it was in the beginning of the game's life.


Cutthroat is fufu. All he needs is that d4 and it's his ball game. Same with Cage, though I'd much rather fight a cutthroat than an A-List.

Still not sold on Takeda yet. I'd rather fight him than piercing mileena.
 

SM StarGazer

The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt
Cutthroat is fufu. All he needs is that d4 and it's his ball game. Same with Cage, though I'd much rather fight a cutthroat than an A-List.

Still not sold on Takeda yet. I'd rather fight him than piercing mileena.
A-List is a pain in the ass. I pick Mournful just to lame and catch a shadow kick so I can lame some more. Lame, lame, ExLame, repeat.

Takeda is an Assassin thing or Mournful for me. Parry is delicious, and dumbass Tornado kick with no armor is straight up-blown up. Lasher is still new to me and Shirai ryu is just dependent on the opponents skill level.
 
Well, i still suffer a lot using assassin against any Scorpion variation. On MK9 i could easily beat him with Kitana or Jade, but on MKX he's annoying as hell. Post some matches against him for us to see @xKhaoTik

And what's the best option with Kitana against Kung Jin dive kick?
 

SM StarGazer

The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt
Well, i still suffer a lot using assassin against any Scorpion variation. On MK9 i could easily beat him with Kitana or Jade, but on MKX he's annoying as hell. Post some matches against him for us to see @xKhaoTik

And what's the best option with Kitana against Kung Jin dive kick?
Lift and Instant air fans. RS or Assassin are all you need against Jin. Imo. Air fan the dive kick, lift it if possible, and punish.
 
Lift and Instant air fans. RS or Assassin are all you need against Jin. Imo. Air fan the dive kick, lift it if possible, and punish.
Hi can you tell me how to do instant air fans please? Also what can you use to punish liu kangs bycicle kick when blocked? Is it punishable at all?
 

SM StarGazer

The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt
Hi can you tell me how to do instant air fans please? Also what can you use to punish liu kangs bycicle kick when blocked? Is it punishable at all?
Practice doing air fan as fast as possible. If you really wanna train yourself try my way. F112-Exfan, Instant Air Fan. Repeat. The reason is because you cant convert the air fan after f112xxExfan unless its instant aired near-flawlessly. Makes for good practice.
 

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
Also what can you use to punish liu kangs bycicle kick when blocked? Is it punishable at all?
Use 21~fan. You can confirm a hit before committing to the fan. If it comes out too late and he blocks, you're still plus and can continue pressure. Same applies to windmill punches in flame fist variation. :)
 

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
So who does Kitana beat? Who does she lose to?

I honestly feel like she can compete with anybody and can win.
I don't think she has any 3-7 matchups. MAYBE piercing, but I refuse to believe that no matter how much I struggle with it. My experience is based solely on online and mostly Assassin or Royal Storm, so YMMV.

6-4 matchups:

Ferra/Torr
Sonya
Kotal
Erron Black
Kung Lao (Hat Trick or Buzzsaw)
Cassie Cage
Bo Rai Cho
Tanya (Pyromancer)
Takeda (Lasher)
Kung Jin (Bojitsu or Ancestral)
Shinnok (Imposter or Necromancer)
Kenshi (Possessed, or Kenjutsu)
Tremor
Jason
Alien (Acidic or Konjurer)
Leatherface
Predator (Hunter)

5-5 matchups

Kung Lao (Tempest)
Ermac
Reptile
Sub Zero (Unbreakable or Cyromancer)
Scorpion (Inferno)
Jaqui (Full Auto or High Tech)
Tanya (Dragon Naginata or Kobi Jitsu)
Triborg
Takeda (Ronin)
Kung Jin (Shaolin)
Quan Chi
Shinnok (Bone Shaper)
Kenshi (Balanced)
Kano (Cybernetic or Ruthless)
Goro
Raiden
Alien (Tarkatan)
Predator (Warrior)

4-6 matchups

Mileena
Scorpion (Ninjisu or Hellfire)
Johnny Cage
Jaqui (Shotgun)
Jax
Takeda (Shirai Ryu)
Kano (Cutthroat)
Predator (HQT)
 

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
I'm still not sold on scorpion yet. I need to play @YOMI RM JagoBlake.

And mileena isn't 3-7 lol. It is annoying tho against someone who knows it.

Shotgun jacqui???
Maybe it's lack of matchup knowledge, but the few I've played have completely floored me. Her pressure is quite good, and shotgun allows restands. It's like fighting Johnny to me.
 
Use 21~fan. You can confirm a hit before committing to the fan. If it comes out too late and he blocks, you're still plus and can continue pressure. Same applies to windmill punches in flame fist variation. :)
Thanks bro. Also in the corner sometimes I'll be crouch blocking does the 21~fan still get him or do I have to be standing? I guess what I'm asking also is are the punishes good regardless if I'm blocking the bycicle kick crouching or standing?
 

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
Also, I left D'Vorah off there because I honestly don't know where to put her. I had little trouble against her online, but from what I've seen of her in the right hands, she seems like she could be trouble for Kitana.
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
I don't think she has any 3-7 matchups. MAYBE piercing, but I refuse to believe that no matter how much I struggle with it. My experience is based solely on online and mostly Assassin or Royal Storm, so YMMV.

4-6 matchups

Mileena
Scorpion (Ninjisu or Hellfire)
Johnny Cage
Jaqui (Shotgun)
Jax
Takeda (Shirai Ryu)
Kano (Cutthroat)
Predator (HQT)
I'm curious. Can you explain why you feel that Kitana loses to Ninjutsu 4-6?

I occasionally use Royal Storm as well, so I can comment from both sides, but I'd like your input first.
 

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
Thanks bro. Also in the corner sometimes I'll be crouch blocking does the 21~fan still get him or do I have to be standing? I guess what I'm asking also is are the punishes good regardless if I'm blocking the bycicle kick crouching or standing?
Shouldn't be an issue either way. Best I can tell you is to go into the lab and practice punishing it. I used to have the same issue, thinking it wasn't punishable. The window is a bit tight, but it's sooner than you think, almost exactly when the final kick is blocked. Just practice.
 

Mr.EditUndo

Meterburn the Meterburn
I'm curious. Can you explain why you feel that Kitana loses to Ninjutsu 4-6?

I occasionally use Royal Storm as well, so I can comment from both sides, but I'd like your input first.
Ninjutsu is the weakest version against her IMO

you can parry his f2 and b2 and the added range against a zoner isnt enough

hellfire and inferno have better tools to counter zone
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Ninjutsu is the weakest version against her IMO

you can parry his f2 and b2 and the added range against a zoner isnt enough

hellfire and inferno have better tools to counter zone
I disagree respectfully. While a parry can somewhat discourage reckless abuse with Ninjutsu's F2/B2 normals, you're risking a read for about 15% against a 30%+ combo that can be ended with a restand into a vortex or more pressure. And keep in mind that parry loses to lows like Scorpion's D4, which is excellent for spacing and low-profiling, and it loses to jump-ins, another area where Scorpion excels with his jump-3.

Even worse for Kitana is that she can only punish a F2 that is mis-spaced by using throat slice. Her jab won't even reach if it's blocked at close quarters. I've tried to punish this in the lab with S1 and had no luck.

Against B2s that are spaced, all she gets is throat slice. Her F1 is 14 frames and at worst, B2 is -14 and F2 is -11 although the latter changes due to awkward blockstun and spacing.

You mentioned the range against zoners. In some cases, Scorpion doesn't need that range. Kitana's ground fan can recover fast enough to block an attempt at a teleport punish, but air fans will lose to teleport 100% due to them having greater recovery than ground fans. And if the Scorpion player's punishes aren't on point, they can just feint the teleport to close distance, although that CAN be punished if you note the decrease in his stamina but you have to be quick about it.

To me, Assassin vs. Ninjutsu is a match-up that is heavy on reads and footsies.
 

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
I'm curious. Can you explain why you feel that Kitana loses to Ninjutsu 4-6?

I occasionally use Royal Storm as well, so I can comment from both sides, but I'd like your input first.
Firstly, I make no claim to be a pro player, and this is purely my opinion based on my own experience.

I feel Scorpion is a tough fight in general for Kitana. His air to airs seem to trump hers and lead to full combos when it happens. Taking the fight to the air is a risk.

Which leads to Ninjutsu. This variation improves his close up ground game, giving him a bit of range and also a overhead combo starter in addition to his preexisting low starter. At close range, if you're under pressure, you're going to have to guess high or low. I've found some success with parry in the neutral, but that only goes so far.

Zoning is basically out of the question with his teleport across all variations as well.

All these things combined, to me, feels like he controls the pace of the match almost entirely. I'm left hoping he messes up somewhere so I can punish, but I can't be guessing 50/50 starters forever. So long as he keeps me guessing, between the ground and the air game, I feel he has the upper hand.

I would like your thoughts as well. :)
 

Mr.EditUndo

Meterburn the Meterburn
I disagree respectfully. While a parry can somewhat discourage reckless abuse with Ninjutsu's F2/B2 normals, you're risking a read for about 15% against a 30%+ combo that can be ended with a restand into a vortex or more pressure. And keep in mind that parry loses to lows like Scorpion's D4, which is excellent for spacing and low-profiling, and it loses to jump-ins, another area where Scorpion excels with his jump-3.

Even worse for Kitana is that she can only punish a F2 that is mis-spaced by using throat slice. Her jab won't even reach if it's blocked at close quarters. I've tried to punish this in the lab with S1 and had no luck.

Against B2s that are spaced, all she gets is throat slice. Her F1 is 14 frames and at worst, B2 is -14 and F2 is -11 although the latter changes due to awkward blockstun and spacing.

You mentioned the range against zoners. In some cases, Scorpion doesn't need that range. Kitana's ground fan can recover fast enough to block an attempt at a teleport punish, but air fans will lose to teleport 100% due to them having greater recovery than ground fans. And if the Scorpion player's punishes aren't on point, they can just feint the teleport to close distance, although that CAN be punished if you note the decrease in his stamina but you have to be quick about it.

To me, Assassin vs. Ninjutsu is a match-up that is heavy on reads and footsies.
His f2 is reactiable so you shouldnt risk a read, and i say parry not to discourage use of it ( but thats a bonus) but because its a 50/50 and IMO its better to parry those than try to block

if im in b2 range then yeah i will read that and try to parry/block

Ive watched you stream and I belive against you/ patient scorp players, it will be more footise based but for general online, v ninjutisu you can full screen him to death and bait some teleports
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Firstly, I make no claim to be a pro player, and this is purely my opinion based on my own experience.

I feel Scorpion is a tough fight in general for Kitana. His air to airs seem to trump hers and lead to full combos when it happens. Taking the fight to the air is a risk.

Which leads to Ninjutsu. This variation improves his close up ground game, giving him a bit of range and also a overhead combo starter in addition to his preexisting low starter. At close range, if you're under pressure, you're going to have to guess high or low. I've found some success with parry in the neutral, but that only goes so far.

Zoning is basically out of the question with his teleport across all variations as well.

All these things combined, to me, feels like he controls the pace of the match almost entirely. I'm left hoping he messes up somewhere so I can punish, but I can't be guessing 50/50 starters forever. So long as he keeps me guessing, between the ground and the air game, I feel he has the upper hand.

I would like your thoughts as well. :)
You're correct about the teleport being an anti-zoning tool, but I should tell you that Kitana's ground fan recovers fairly quickly. I have been punished for trying to react to this with teleport at times, so I'm forced to be pre-emptive unless the Kitana player is predictable. Now against an air fan, it will always be punished by teleport due to the added landing recovery from throwing a fan in the air.

Personally, I don't want to take to the air against you due to the threat of a full combo from an air fan unless you throw one when I haven't pressed a button yet. As well, your EX Rising Fan does wonders as an anti-air.

For the air-to-airs, isn't Kitana's jump-2 five frames or am I remembering wrong? Because if it is, it's one frame faster than Scorpion's jump-3 so it ought to be winning the exchange. If not, that could be due to hitboxes and active frames favoring Scorpion. However, remember that you have the float. I feel it does wonders with faking jump-ins and improving your air game.

Another note to take: if you can't beat Scorpion air-to-air, then the next time he jumps at you when you don't have meter, run under him and mash your fastest possible combo string. If he does a jump-3, it will whiff as you run under him, and he will suffer landing recovery which gives you the chance to get a combo.

As for Ninjutsu's 50/50s, I know this may seem hard to do, but the sound of a sword being drawn is the audio cue for Scorpion's F2. The first hit is still mid, so you can block that crouching, but the second must be blocked while standing. If they cancel into a Takedown instead of going for the overhead, it will always hit at a later frame than the overhead. I recommend practicing a fuzzy guard against this. It's much easier said than done, but it's certainly possible.

Now, it will be unrealistic to expect that you can fuzzy this 100% of the time, so don't stress this if it still hits you at times. I have taken to adding in ways to catching the opponent by surprise with F2 and I don't even need to use F2 - Takedown to coax them into blocking low. For examples of this, see my YouTube by clicking my signature.
 
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GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
His f2 is reactiable so you shouldnt risk a read, and i say parry not to discourage use of it ( but thats a bonus) but because its a 50/50 and IMO its better to parry those than try to block

if im in b2 range then yeah i will read that and try to parry/block

Ive watched you stream and I belive against you/ patient scorp players it will be more footise based but for general online, v ninjutisu you can full screen him to death and bait some teleports
Hmmmmm, I can't say I agree, but then, I haven't fought that many Assassin Kitanas so you may know something I don't. I'm just not sure if I would rely on a parry for 10% against launchers that costs about 35% meterless. You're correct about F2 being reactable, though.