General/Other - Kitana XL Kitana General Discussion

[ILuvFightGames]

I use jump in 4 for everything. 11 is like 4% damage compared to F33 being 8%. Do you mean B14?

No I mean for example a combo like 212,fan,jik3,fan, then after the run I see most do f33 lift, but I do f11 lift and the damage is the same. Also I think jik 3 is the same as jik 4 right?

 

[ShadyHeart]

No I mean for example a combo like 212,fan,jik3,fan, then after the run I see most do f33 lift, but I do f11 lift and the damage is the same. Also I think jik 3 is the same as jik 4 right?

F11 does significantly less damage than F33. It's just that Kitana combos scale so much that the difference when used later in a combo is less than 1%.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

F11 does significantly less damage than F33. It's just that Kitana combos scale so much that the difference when used later in a combo is less than 1%.

Ah ok I see. Yea I know that doing f33 does more damage than doing f11 if we do it raw but I noticed in that combo using either one before the lift does the same damage.

 

[RestEasy]

What is the best combo for a connected air fan midscreen and full screen?

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

What is the best combo for a connected air fan midscreen and full screen?

run forward (you can run fullscreen too, but you gotta start running early or you may drop combo)
F43, F33 fan, F4 lift, njp, F4 ender

 

[RestEasy]

run forward (you can run fullscreen too, but you gotta start running early or you may drop combo)
F43, F33 fan, F4 lift, njp, F4 ender

Sorry I meant the fan vortex! down back 1 from midscreen to fullscreen.

 

[xKhaoTik]

@Espio
@JustPressingButtons
And whoever plays goro



OK so I don't know the Goro MU at all lol. Frames, setups, etc, I don't know shit. I literally just play and act on impulse. Was I getting bullied? Did I let him get away with stuff? What can I do and what can't I do?

 

[thlityoursloat]

1. Taking shit after getting hit by stomp, regular stomp is -ve on hit and EX stomp is like 0, there's no reason to respect anything afterwards.
2. Always always block low, unless Goro does S2 (21 is oh), b3 (b3d3 is OH) and F4. Stuff like F3 low fang shouldn't be a thing lol.

 

[Espio]

@Espio
@JustPressingButtons
And whoever plays goro



OK so I don't know the Goro MU at all lol. Frames, setups, etc, I don't know shit. I literally just play and act on impulse. Was I getting bullied? Did I let him get away with stuff? What can I do and what can't I do?

Most of what he did was legit since Goro has a lot of plus frames. His fast mid back1,2,1 is plus 2 on block among his other options. He can pressure her for sure, but there's no mix up after forward 3 in terms of overhead versus low so you can always block low, but ex low stab is plus 7 so he gets pressure. Most pokes cancelled into punch walk cannot be jumped out of, only armored. Goro can punish fan tosses too with command grab up close, even though Rev didn't end up doing so. MB punch walk is also plus 4 so it's still his turn. I don't think you played it bad, I think you played it better than Rev, but it was still super close, good games to you both. I always enjoy watching this mu.

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

Sorry I meant the fan vortex! down back 1 from midscreen to fullscreen.

Bump.
I'd like to know this too

 

[n0rv1s]

Sorry I meant the fan vortex! down back 1 from midscreen to fullscreen.

Is this what you about?

 

[RestEasy]

Is this what you about?

Yes thank you! That shit is so busted. It goes through projectiles thus doing a good job in counter zoning. Especially because usually a trade that doesnt knock you down gives you time to run in and punish.

Edit: I didnt know you could use the booty dash to close the distance without having to run. Thats pretty cool, thanks for the tech!

 

[Second Saint]

I was doing some labbing against Mournful's air glaive and realized I missed having that kind of overhead angled air projectile, since I was a Harley main in I:GAU. Air glaive seems like a much better version of that, so I figured I'd try and learn her. I'm in a bit of a character crisis lately because I simply can't play D'vorah in every matchup like I'd want to.

Is there any general knowledge or tips anyone could give me? Is the combo thread still relevant? It says it hasn't been updated in 2 major balance patches.

 

[ShadyHeart]

I consider mournful to be the most zoning focused of her variations. People say she's rushdown but everything she does results in the opponent getting thrown away from you, she has the hardest to avoid projectiles, she's the safest, she has the lowest reward for doing anything up close, etc. The only thing she has over the other variations up close is being safer on block, ex glaive giving you another chance at a mix up if they don't armor through, and a fast overhead combo starter if you burn the meter.

Hro Kahn has a kitana combo video with mournful in it. You can learn some good ones from there.

 

[Second Saint]

Ok, taken the first steps into playing kitana online. Currently the saltiest I can recall ever being.

Why is her d1 on +3 on hit, and how the fuck do I make these pokes work? D1 gives no advantage, d3 has barely any better advantage on top of being so short range it will usually whiff if I use it, and d4 is 11f without great range too.

I literally could not stop spammed pokes after I hit a d1. Then I did the math and realized that the only way to actually stop them is to d1 again, which just doesn't stop anyone from poking. Then I decided to try and shimmy and whiff punish, which did not work at all against scorpion's d4 or just Jason in general because I'm not even sure it's possible to shimmy against his b1, and if I'm not perfect it can actually beat my 10f mids, especially if I misjudge the distance and they whiff.

Seriously, I need help. I have never been this frustrated over MK before.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Ok, taken the first steps into playing kitana online. Currently the saltiest I can recall ever being.

Why is her d1 on +3 on hit, and how the fuck do I make these pokes work? D1 gives no advantage, d3 has barely any better advantage on top of being so short range it will usually whiff if I use it, and d4 is 11f without great range too.

I literally could not stop spammed pokes after I hit a d1. Then I did the math and realized that the only way to actually stop them is to d1 again, which just doesn't stop anyone from poking. Then I decided to try and shimmy and whiff punish, which did not work at all against scorpion's d4 or just Jason in general because I'm not even sure it's possible to shimmy against his b1, and if I'm not perfect it can actually beat my 10f mids, especially if I misjudge the distance and they whiff.

Seriously, I need help. I have never been this frustrated over MK before.

Well I personally don't poke with d1. I see that more as an AA, combo extender or a footsie tool rather than an actual poke. +3 is pretty whack tho but that's because it has a lot of uses outside of a poke. If you notice people poking alot after d1, you can do stuff like d1 fan, d1 lift or d1 rising fan to catch pokes. I personally despise d1 lift lol and hate when Kitana players do it. D1 fan is cool once in a while but people will catch on and just duck the fan and punish. D1 rising fan jails, but I would only recommend using it if you have a bar to either make it harder to punish or combo from it.


I love d3. it's a 6f low that's safe on block and +10 on hit. That's alot of advantage and Kitana has plenty of options to follow up with afterwards. I usually grab or use b14

D4 is pretty trash lol. I never use it. Don't see the point. Her sweep is much better

 

[Second Saint]

Well I personally don't poke with d1. I see that more as an AA, combo extender or a footsie tool rather than an actual poke. +3 is pretty whack tho but that's because it has a lot of uses outside of a poke. If you notice people poking alot after d1, you can do stuff like d1 fan, d1 lift or d1 rising fan to catch pokes. I personally despise d1 lift lol and hate when Kitana players do it. D1 fan is cool once in a while but people will catch on and just duck the fan and punish. D1 rising fan jails, but I would only recommend using it if you have a bar to either make it harder to punish or combo from it.


I love d3. it's a 6f low that's safe on block and +10 on hit. That's alot of advantage and Kitana has plenty of options to follow up with afterwards. I usually grab or use b14

D4 is pretty trash lol. I never use it. Don't see the point. Her sweep is much better

Thanks for the advice. I actually was trying d1~staff or d1~glaive, but for some reason the guy I was playing never once got caught by that, despite constant pokes at all other times. It was a big part of why I was so salty last night. The things that should've worked logically, just never did. I couldn't throw him after a poke hit or after I blocked one of his. Nothing worked for 60 games. Just constant pokes that I couldn't stop.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Thanks for the advice. I actually was trying d1~staff or d1~glaive, but for some reason the guy I was playing never once got caught by that, despite constant pokes at all other times. It was a big part of why I was so salty last night. The things that should've worked logically, just never did. I couldn't throw him after a poke hit or after I blocked one of his. Nothing worked for 60 games. Just constant pokes that I couldn't stop.

If you're using mournful, do d1 shadow kick. Jails and safe. I'm not really a d1 glaive guy, d1 ex glaive yea but not regular.


But if all else fails and people don't wanna respect frames, don't respect theirs lol

 

[Second Saint]

If you're using mournful, do d1 shadow kick. Jails and safe. I'm not really a d1 glaive guy, d1 ex glaive yea but not regular.


But if all else fails and people don't wanna respect frames, don't respect theirs lol

D1 shadow kick jails? That's huge, thank you! I didn't know that and thought it would just get low profiled, so I never tried it.

 

[Cashual]

I don't think you played awfully, the biggest thing I saw was that you didn't punish stomp. You had the right idea, but if you wait a bit longer and dash forward when it has just auto tracked, the dash will leave you right next to goro and you have a free f112fan combo. You can't let goro do a regular stomp. You were ending up like 3/4 screen and going for f22 and getting beat by big leg, that almost singlehandedly changed the matchup.

Also, even though you were consistently getting low 30s meter less, dropping those enders killed your oki game completely. Don't know if that happens often for you, if it was a connection thing, or if you're not aware of issues with goro's gravity/hitbox but I usually dumb down combos on goro. Instead of 21 lift after 2x of f43, do d1 lift/fan and finish the combo so you have options on knockdown.

Also, depending on the situation, consider skipping the 2nd f43 (unless crucial for screen position) and just go into 21 lift/fan depending. All that's a long way to say that the risk of letting goro up for free with no meter isn't worth the couple percent in damage by getting the optimal bnb.

The goro was getting caught by float mixups in neutral, getting one or two on his wake up would've probably turned the tides. Also, with 2 bars, blow up his frame traps with db2 for full combo.

 

[Cashual]

I've actually had a lot of the same issues. Like khaotik said, d3 is pretty good and guarantees follow ups on hit, but man, the range just sucks. It is very easy to get abused up close by a lot of characters with good pokes and buttons.

I sort of wonder if nrs is just really trying to ensure that kitanas play style is that of a zoner and sort of sending the message that she isn't meant to be played up close.

Obviously she has some good tools, but I think with the removal of armor on exts this narrative that she's top tier is utter bullshit.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

Well I personally don't poke with d1. I see that more as an AA, combo extender or a footsie tool rather than an actual poke. +3 is pretty whack tho but that's because it has a lot of uses outside of a poke. If you notice people poking alot after d1, you can do stuff like d1 fan, d1 lift or d1 rising fan to catch pokes. I personally despise d1 lift lol and hate when Kitana players do it. D1 fan is cool once in a while but people will catch on and just duck the fan and punish. D1 rising fan jails, but I would only recommend using it if you have a bar to either make it harder to punish or combo from it.


I love d3. it's a 6f low that's safe on block and +10 on hit. That's alot of advantage and Kitana has plenty of options to follow up with afterwards. I usually grab or use b14

D4 is pretty trash lol. I never use it. Don't see the point. Her sweep is much better

So d3 on hit connects with b14?

 

[xKhaoTik]

So d3 on hit connects with b14?

If you mean link then no

But it's pretty much guaranteed. Can't jump, back dash, poke. Pretty sure they can armor tho

 

[Second Saint]

Been in the lab a bit with Mournful and found something that seems fairly legit and wanted to see if it was already known. EX glaive oki is similar to a metered version of pre-patch Swarm Queen oki.

End a combo in f22~ex glaive for a hard knockdown and the returning glaive hits meaty, leaving her somewhere between +20 and +30, haven't really narrowed that down yet. Can't jail a s4, but can jail a f2. Plenty of time to bait armor (or break one hit armors) and still pressure, but delayed wakeups do avoid the glaive. I feel like with time I could find a way around that though by using different strings to change when the glaive hits, but that opens up dealing with tech rolls.

I've been doing f112~df1, 212~db1, njp, f22~ex df1 in the corner. It seems pretty good, only sacrificing 6% or so from f112.

Old news, really old news, or did I do good?

 

[Invincible Salads]

how do i beat this damn character with Summoner quan chi? i thought he had the advantage in this MU no? but its so hard to punish this bitch and once she gets in she has way better normals than quan, and pressure to boot. so wtf do i do against her rising fan/float nonsense?