Question - Special Forces Why does this variation seem underused?

[The_Tile]

Maybe im just use to playing cage, but its no way like this in timing

Tbf I've never tried SF Sonya so it might be different. I know that the timing is slightly different for Cage's 113 on hit and block though, the others aren't as bad.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

It's underused, I'd say, because it's only better on paper.

 

[errormacro7]

It's underused, I'd say, because it's only better on paper.

And what do you mean by that?

 

[Sage Leviathan]

And what do you mean by that?

50/50s SEKTOR MISSILE DIVEKICK CORNER DAMAGE LOW PLUS ON BLOCK LAUNCHER

and then when you play it it's like, "Oh, frame data and drone dependence. Ugh."

 

[errormacro7]

50/50s SEKTOR MISSILE DIVEKICK CORNER DAMAGE LOW PLUS ON BLOCK LAUNCHER

and then when you play it it's like, "Oh, frame data and drone dependence. Ugh."

That doesn't make the variation bad however.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Yeah your prob right.

Im thinking a reason could be the R2+Face button for input, as the game its struggling to tell if your block or doing an input, maybe if they do what they did for Quan Chi and change it too L2 it may help execution

Can we please all rally for this?!

I don't like saying "worse" or "better* in terms of Sonya variation. The character is optimal when all variations are used against their best matchups. If someone really "mains" Sonya they should learn all three. I think TYM should drop the idea of "variation mains" and just learn the entire character. If the variation takes care of even 1 bad matchup out of 28, then it's a variation worth learning.

To just some myths: SF is not toothless without drone.

Sonya SF gets decent damage off b33212~leg grab, so she always has some access to respectable damage without drone. 20% meterless is not bad.

Also, SF is not reliant on meter at all. She can build up meter when drone is active so she'll never be both without a drone and EX leg grab reversal.

Her damage isn't massive, but off a 2134 knockdown she has enough time to call a new drone, fire a homing missile, and start running at you by the time you are just getting up.

Well, worth learning if you are strictly limited to Sonya for some reason, otherwise she's just a super hard variation especially to switch between because she's so unique, and you might be better off just learning a different character who covers multiple match ups to compliment your Covops and/or Demolition, which I think is what most people have done.

Also normally I'd say 20% meter less as your best combo is bad. It's insanely bad, her damage is tiny with the drone not out. However, it's balanced around it IMO. This variation played by someone good with it. Would be in my top 3 of things I don't want to deal with.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Who says SF sucks?

 

[errormacro7]

Can we please all rally for this?!



Well, worth learning if you are strictly limited to Sonya for some reason, otherwise she's just a super hard variation especially to switch between because she's so unique, and you might be better off just learning a different character who covers multiple match ups to compliment your Covops and/or Demolition, which I think is what most people have done.

Also normally I'd say 20% meter less as your best combo is bad. It's insanely bad, her damage is tiny with the drone not out. However, it's balanced around it IMO. This variation played by someone good with it. Would be in my top 3 of things I don't want to deal with.

I've never seen the fact she depends on the drone for combos as a bad thing. At all. This variation is more of a space control/zoning/anti-zoning one, that makes her unique and I like it that way. We have Demo for big damage.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I've never seen the fact she depends on the drone for combos as a bad thing. At all. This variation is more of a space control/zoning/anti-zoning one, that makes her unique and I like it that way. We have Demo for big damage.

Well, it's obviously worse for her than if she didn't depend on them right. However, from a design perspective I agree. She'd be insane if she had 35 percenters without having to set up and would just totally outclass other variations

 

[errormacro7]

Well, it's obviously worse for her than if she didn't depend on them right. However, from a design perspective I agree. She'd be insane if she had 35 percenters without having to set up and would just totally outclass other variations

She needs buffs. Please NRS buff Sonya.

 

[S0ulRack]

Special Forces is probably Sonya's best variation since the patch fixed the b332 whiff issues, but the biggest issue she has in this variation like a few people have already mentioned, is her special move cancel window (namely on block). She can actually jail you into a block infinite with b33212 (if you have no meter) as long as her drone is up, but using drone from block strings even offline is just too inconsistent and hopefully is something that can get addressed next patch.

She needs buffs. Please NRS buff Sonya.

She actually could use some tweaks to her frame data: she could use more hit advantage on 121, her 222 string isn't used at all and shouldn't be -17, b33f4 should be higher than -9 since b332 being -5, cancelable, and extended with 12( and still cancelable) makes it redundant, and her throw shouldn't be -4 which hurts her mixup game in other variations in the corner.

 

[IrishMantis]

Who says SF sucks?

Nobody, underused

 

[Aramonde]

I love watching this variation used effectively. I think Scar used it a little at Combobreaker if i remember correctly.

 

[errormacro7]

Special Forces is probably Sonya's best variation since the patch fixed the b332 whiff issues, but the biggest issue she has in this variation like a few people have already mentioned, is her special move cancel window (namely on block). She can actually jail you into a block infinite with b33212 (if you have no meter) as long as her drone is up, but using drone from block strings even offline is just too inconsistent and hopefully is something that can get addressed next patch.



She actually could use some tweaks to her frame data: she could use more hit advantage on 121, her 222 string isn't used at all and shouldn't be -17, b33f4 should be higher than -9 since b332 being -5, cancelable, and extended with 12( and still cancelable) makes it redundant, and her throw shouldn't be -4 which hurts her mixup game in other variations in the corner.

I was just kidding, I don't think she needs any buffs. lol

 

[JustPressingButtons]

On paper it's good, in reality it really isn't for high level vs the top tiers. Wanna know why?

Because she has to call out the drone first to start her game, and there's no safe way to do it most of the time. 90% of the time Sonya is getting hit out of the summoning animation, or you get to start your pressure. Doesn't help her reversal options aren't the greatest, so what's she going to do when someone like Lao or Jax is in her face? Or Quan Chi and Shinnok keeping her out?

What I would suggest is shaving off some start up frames or having her start off the match with the drone out.

 

[S0ulRack]

I was just kidding, I don't think she needs any buffs. lol

I know you were, that's why I said "She actually could use some tweaks to her frame data"

 

[errormacro7]

On paper it's good, in reality it really isn't for high level vs the top tiers. Wanna know why?

Because she has to call out the drone first to start her game, and there's no safe way to do it most of the time. 90% of the time Sonya is getting hit out of the summoning animation, or you get to start your pressure. Doesn't help her reversal options aren't the greatest, so what's she going to do when someone like Lao or Jax is in her face? Or Quan Chi and Shinnok keeping her out?

What I would suggest is shaving off some start up frames or having her start off the match with the drone out.

Sorry, but she doesn't need any of that.

If you're getting hit out of summoning the drone, then you're not playing the variation correctly. Summoning the drone is a lot easier and FASTER than reloading grenades. In Demo, there are times when she's reloading grenades in the neutral then she gets hit by a projectile during the last active frames of the reload and doesn't reload shit. And even if she gets hit out of summoning the drone in SF, that doesn't stop the drone from coming out most of the times.

 

[S0ulRack]

On paper it's good, in reality it really isn't for high level vs the top tiers. Wanna know why?

Because she has to call out the drone first to start her game, and there's no safe way to do it most of the time. 90% of the time Sonya is getting hit out of the summoning animation, or you get to start your pressure. Doesn't help her reversal options aren't the greatest, so what's she going to do when someone like Lao or Jax is in her face? Or Quan Chi and Shinnok keeping her out?

What I would suggest is shaving off some start up frames or having her start off the match with the drone out.

Are you sure you're talking about Special Forces, because in Special Forces once you get the first frame of the summon animation the drone is out, in Demolition though if you're trying to reload it can be interrupted. Special Forces isn't that bad summoning the drone, you don't get punished full screen like you do with Demolition since its's 41 frames to summon in Special Forces opposed to 63 frames to reload in Demolition.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

If you really think it's easy to get a drone call out, you're just playing bad players lol.

And yes, ignore the fact that multiple characters invalidate her starting up her game. Cause literally the majority of good characters don't even give a shit if she has the drone out regardless.

 

[errormacro7]

If you really think it's easy to get a drone call out, you're just playing bad players lol.

And yes, ignore the fact that multiple characters invalidate her starting up her game. Cause literally the majority of good characters don't even give a shit if she has the drone out regardless.

No offense, but maybe you are the bad player. Summoning the drone is fast and if you're really getting hit out of it, then you're doing it in the moments you shouldn't be doing it.

 

[Aramonde]

Scar didn't have problems summoning it in the match footage in the op he had a combo that made it a safe.

 

[scarsunseen]

I pretty much only use SF if I'm fighting a zoner. I think the other two variations just fit my personal style better. All 3 variations are really great.

 

[Youphemism]

If you really think it's easy to get a drone call out, you're just playing bad players lol.

And yes, ignore the fact that multiple characters invalidate her starting up her game. Cause literally the majority of good characters don't even give a shit if she has the drone out regardless.

Well Scar seemed to be getting drone out pretty easily against Woundcowboy, unless you count major winners as bad players...

 

[countrypistol]

B33212 has 46 frames hit advantage, EX arc kick has 45. A successful hit of either leaves you with a safe drone set up.

Unfortunately, b1 and b14 will not combo into ex arc kick against all of the cast, only the taller characters get hit.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Well Scar seemed to be getting drone out pretty easily against Woundcowboy, unless you count major winners as bad players...

Well I guess according to TYM a lack of MU exp isn't a thing either. And please link me to this MU footage if Scar actually won.