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Why do we let EVO treat us like this?

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
So I've heard TCW, KiT, CEO and Combo Breaker.

Personally I believe all of these are great tournaments. But out of these I've only attended TCW and NRS being the main focus was really appealing to me. That said these are all great choices.
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
I didn't say they were, and agree. But it was in reference to those saying they aren't "our" commentators. I would rather have KP or M&K as well, but that wasn't my point. Ultra David and Aris do a fine job and they do represent the community well.
I think those words were chosen poorly "our". But there is more qualified commentators. Literally Aris said "I don't see anyone complain about demo". He's part of the nrs community yes but he's not like a hardcore guy like the ones I listed are
 

Undergroundepict

I am like the blue rose
After a quick Google search:

Evolution Championship Series
MrWizard and the Cannon brothers have been running Evo for an extremely long time, and were part of the FGC for time before that.

Tony is a huge contributing factor to why the netcode in MKXL is good as it is now. He created GGPO.

There is a reason Seth Killian was chosen to be one of the commentators for ESPN. His knowledge of fighting games - from both a designer and player perspective - is paralleled by very few.

Seth and the Cannon brothers all worked to create Rising Thunder.

Hmm... so what you're saying is that they were once people before they hopped on the corporate glass dick and were transformed into self-aggrandizing, money hungry automatons? Interesting...


Ok, I'm being a little harsh here, but they are literally the people who promote themselves as "The Most Prestigious Fighting Game Tournament in the World." That shit is Donald Trump as fuck. So maybe I'm not being overly harsh, and I'm really just being fair?

I mean, like, "Largest," or "Most Well Attended" or "Most Well Funded" would have been perfectly fine. All of these statements are objective, based on facts that can be easily backed up if someone calls them on it, and moreover, sufficiently impressive accomplishments in their own light. So why they then decided to refer to themselves as "The Most Prestigious..." on the bottom right-hand corner of every stream, and god knows how many posters, is beyond me.

Calling yourself "the most prestigious" anything is pretentious as fuck, and therefore profoundly off-putting to anybody with a brain who catches it. It's precisely the type of thing that self-aggrandizing, money hungry, corporate automatons do on a regular basis.
 
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villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
Well perhaps we could get the Evo staff to communicate with staff of other events that we consider our best events so they can collaborate?

Would it be outlandish for say, ESL to be given the reigns of the NRS scene at an event like Evo?

This is the difficult part I suppose, but that's the point of the thread, to brainstorm.

Another option could be, we still attend Evo, but put more emphasis on other events such as tcw, CEO, CB etc, so that maybe one day they can be as strong in turnout as something like Evo. Ultimately the only difference between Evo and any other tournament would be the number of entrants, if TCW hypothetically could pull in 1k MK players, would Evo still be our most prestigious tournament? And if that were the case, we'd then have 3 events of that prestige instead of just the one.
I would say nothing is outlandish or any of the sort in fact this is good. The ideas are great.

I do remember even reading another post that why nor have a viennality made here in North America or have like it's been suggested tcw, Kit, ceo, maybe even CB since it's at nrs front door. I say this is the kinds of ideas that can be explored more. This is a very good idea.

Already in this thread there seems to be headway with the issues voiced and concerns that were brought to attention. I guess we'll see where it will lead us. @Ponder

Your right this is and will be the hardest part. I got to be honest here. Even writing out this post is tough because what can be said can be taken the wrong way or scrutinised and I'm just a pleb.

@CrimsonShadow has a great point. I still do believe evo plays a huge part in nrs but these issues and matters do need to be addressed more throughly going forward. There must've been well over 10 000+ players and others who attended. The fact that there was more exposure and new venues aslo must've played a factor. I would think they did there best but in the same breath we should as a community not take these issues lightly if we should want things to change. I do have a question though. When you first stepped in there what was your first impressions? Did you have a gut feeling this was not going to go well or that it looked like they were in over their heads compared to other events? I kinda want to know.

I would suggest their representatives sit down with a number of you. NRS and others whom ever else (hell if I know) and discuss this so mistakes like this would be minimal.

Aslo more support from us here in the community to come out and support this game and others. Mkxl & I2 can coexist. If it comes down to a numbers game then let's meet that expectation if it's possible. 1k would be awesome! If Smash can do it then we need to try as well. It did look like KI and Tekken got aslo the short end of the stick but I think they had lower numbers compared to mkxl as well.

And lastly communication. That is key. Pro players have voices. And so do the rest of us. We read and respond in these threads. We all play the same game and help each other out. Communication seems to be our biggest strength in the community. So let's use it to make our concerns be heard. Like I said I think it's key and the very first step forward.

I'm glad you and others over the net as brought this up. So many people traveled across the globe for this and if half the people feel this way that you do and on top of it in other communities as well, then discussion and improvements needs to happen. Other wise what's to say next year when even more games are added and more people attend (hopefully myself included) it'll be the same issues again.

I say this as a viewer at this point in time and I do not mean to offend or talk myself in or out of place. I only say this has what we all saw this year. And I say this as a matter of my opinion as well.
 

Kitana Prime

Top-tier at everything but the characters I choose
I am on board with @A F0xy Grampa , all his complaints are beyond legitimate and I don't think there's a single guy in the scene who goes to tournaments and cares about tournament organization more than I.

@Ponder I'm head TO (for lack of better term) for NRS games at everything in Florida locally/regionally, CEO, Combo Breaker, KiT, now Final Round, Frosty Faustings and I will gladly jump on board at EVO to do everything necessary ('everything' is not an exaggeration) if you ever decided to appoint a specialist in respective communities ala Bear with Smash 4.

I'd do it for free. I personally responsible for my community at majors and EVO is no exception. I'm a behind the scenes guy with organization/business for obvious reasons, but I give everything to it, and without question a leader who's true to my dedication.

Also @iSuckAtFightingGames thanks for the kind words, from day 1 versatility has ALWAYS been most important to me and it makes me happy that someone recognizes that, as I want to break the mold of being stuck in a box w/ commentary. Having the ability to flex analytical, color, and being able to mesh with ANYONE is my focus.

Finally, stop using the word boycott. It's beyond stupid for those who mention, imply it. The EVO staff aren't some genies you can't approach, they're men, so we speak to them. The cancerous bunch, keep that rampant negativity with no solutions or support somewhere else.

It's serious discussion time, stop appearing to being incapable of it at every important turn.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Premium Supporter
EVO gets its prestige because of the international competition and players from all over the world traveling. You never know who might just show up. An MK exclusive event will only funnel MK players but you never know which other FG player is playing MK and does well. For example, KaneBlueRiver's brother sent PL to losers, who would have thought, he has a sick D'Vorah.

If the Olympics only allowed US players it'd be kind of pointless. Not the best analogy but it's the only one I can think of.

I understand your point however, but personally, I think this community needs to rebuild its self more positively for any progression to be made.

Everyone needs to just play the game, pro players publicly scrutinizing the game and its developers only hurts its perception and its so bogus to see that. Once again, I NEVER see that from other communities really.

When FANG lost to Chun, I don't see JWong going on Twitter and crying about 3-7 MU or something like that. I see concerns of course, every FG has their concerns about balance but I feel other communities handle it better.
You're saying this to one of the international competitors. EVO isnt actually the only event international competitors go to, its just the one that the largest number go to, but thats the same with the american entrants too
 
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TheGoldenJew

PSN: The_Golden_Jew1
i should have known how evo was going to be when i saw the 'P' missing on my lanyard...like how is there such blatant disregard for proper spelling on god knows how many lanyard printed. like don't you have to print samples first and go through like a process or did they just print like thousands of lanyards and go 'whoops, fuck it its fine'.
 
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Kitana Prime

Top-tier at everything but the characters I choose
Also, some common misconceptions:

The twins didn't give up their competing spots with a guarantee to cast Top 8, they did so they wouldn't miss the chance to commentate together during Top 32 on, because of the possibility of one or both advancing that far in the tourney.

Just because they did so, doesn't mean give them Top 8. Doesn't work that way. I think they're totally deserving and were my expected pick if not, myself + Ultradavid, but either way...we were all simply hopeful, not expecting to get the job. Didn't work out, unfortunately for our hopes.

Secondly, although it was unfortunate, moving Top 8 to 8am turned out to be a necessity as by the time Smash finished, it was ~630 pm, any longer and Smash infringes on ESPN2 time. Sucked with a dry crowd at 8am to objectively the best Top 8 of Finals day (I'll only accept Smash as the other argument). I understand the move, but personally would've put GGXRD in that spot.

...Now that I think about it, NRS was the only developer of a current gen game that had nothing to show on the big stage, so it wouldn't surprise me if that influenced the decision as well.
 

tafka Djinn

One for three off the roof
Secondly, although it was unfortunate, moving Top 8 to 8am turned out to be a necessity as by the time Smash finished, it was ~630 pm, any longer and Smash infringes on ESPN2 time. Sucked with a dry crowd at 8am to objectively the best Top 8 of Finals day (I'll only accept Smash as the other argument). I understand the move, but personally would've put GGXRD in that spot.
I love your entire post except that. Every Smash player I know thinks it should have been a faster format than 4 stocks, 8 minutes. If they even just done 3 stock, 4 minutes, it would have been done so much quicker, and nobody would have had to be squashed into 8am after their pool ending at midnight.

I'll also just edit in that I may also be biased as an anime person.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
There's a very large cross section of players that know Aris and know MKX and got the joke. Then there are people that know MKX that didn't recognize it was a joke but knew Sonya is not an honest character and they didn't get misinformed about the game.

For the remaining like 2 people who happen to be watching top 8 for a game they don't know at 8am, I apologize on behalf of Aris for misinforming you about the honesty of the top tier characters in this game. Let it be known that had K&M made this very comment it would've been a seen as a great joke and great example of their strong commentary. However, since Aris is a "nobody" according this thread he clearly has no knowledge of the game and has no right to commentate.

If you don't know Aris, then keep your opinions about commentators to yourself because you clearly have VERY little exposure with FGC events and the various commentators and thus you don't understand what constitutes a good commentator.

Aris is a divisive figure and I don't expect everyone to agree one way or the other about the positivity of his presence, but the dude brings his followers and noteriety to matches he commentates, much more so than K&M. We should welcome the exposure for a game that less than 1/7 of the entrants for the main event game. Instead people want to bitch that they weren't hosting open mic night at the biggest tournament of the year.
To start, since I have to somewhere, this "large cross section of players that know Aris" would probably know him more for the controversy he tends to leave in his wake moreso than his average-at-best commentary on games he doesn't actively play and acceptable commentary on games he does. I doubt if I put a poll out there that put him against Tom, Pig, KP, hell DMS and 16 bit and K&M, that he would overtake even a single one of them for MKX.

Aris provides not a single solitary thing that another person can't just do. As a commentator for our game, a game he hasn't touched or looked into in months, he provides not a single iota of value unique to him in any way. If K&M had said it, it WOULD have been a big joke because they are actually active in the game and community, and not openly expressing how they haven't given the game a sideways glance since KP2 dropped. I haven't got the patience to flip through 5 months of old tweets or footage to try and find when he last mentioned the game. Do you know why you get the impression that Aris comes off as a "nobody" to people in the community? Do you know why it's assumed he has no knowledge of the game? It's because anyone who has joined after 5 months into the games life would understandably never know if he played the game at all, since past that point it would be a challenge to see him having engaged with us in any way whatsoever outside of taking up commentary positions where better suited people could be.

I don't need to know Aris to know his commentary on our game is lacking to say the least, and counterproductive to say the most. I also don't need a degree to know what makes a good commentator, and I can tell you it's more than a complete lack of knowledge and some random jokes that aren't entirely jokes. The reason most people thought he was serious isn't because the idea of Sonya being honest is a thought we'd entertain, its because Aris could be fully believed to honestly think that because in frame of knowledge he is EASILY and BY FAR the least knowledgeable out of just about any candidate you could reasonably put on the mic. He isn't even the funniest guy, there are funnier guys who know more. Aris has absolutely NOTHING about his commentary that makes someone say "Oh man, who else could we choose aside from him?". He's actually probably the only guy that you could say "Oh man, literally anyone else could do this better.".

Aris is a good commentator for games that he is active in, as I've said about 3 times. Aris on Tekken 7 commentary? A good fit, great even. Aris on Soul Caliber? Sure, I'd find that to be just fine. For our game, though, he was easily the worst of the options we had. This isn't a charity stream, notoriety and followers take a backseat to valid information from qualified and active representatives. People aren't bitching that it wasn't open mic night, rather the opposite. They're bitching because they gave the mic to the one guy who, frankly and again considering the other options, had the least business taking it. I'm 100% standing by this stance, I like Aris and I think that in spite of his controversies here and there he is fantastic in his element and is a nice enough guy, but never in a billion million years would I pass up the line-up of Kitana Prime, K&M, Tom Brady, Pig of the Hut, and DMS and then look at Aris and say "This is the best option to represent our community on commentary in top 8 at the biggest tournament in the world."
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
I love your entire post except that. Every Smash player I know thinks it should have been a faster format than 4 stocks, 8 minutes. If they even just done 3 stock, 4 minutes, it would have been done so much quicker, and nobody would have had to be squashed into 8am after their pool ending at midnight.

I'll also just edit in that I may also be biased as an anime person.
No person in the melee community would say that. They have been playing with those rules for years and a change like that would have huge effects on the meta
 

tafka Djinn

One for three off the roof
No person in the melee community would say that. They have been playing with those rules for years and a change like that would have huge effects on the meta
And you're partially right, because after fourteen years most moved on to S4 for their main game. Even the melee exclusive ones agree that it doesn't need to drag on for up to eight damnable minutes per game though.