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Why do we let EVO treat us like this?

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
not to tear into this persons passage but it just needs to be said.

David is just a better commentator than K&M. Same with Aris. Commentators are simultaneous hype men for matches while explaining what's occurring in terms that even someone with limited knowledge of high level MKX could understand.
SSSTAAAHP

David, especially, does that extremely well.

Because he has to when he does mkx- cause there is a cap on what he knows its obvious. listen to him and chen talk about SFV. its no different than our top commentators sound about MKX - frames- fuzzys- options selects . Davids option select knowledge is like non-other sometimes. its great and very vast. guy is like a encyclopedia when it comes to sf . and he balances high with the limited knowledge talk. Just as KP does for mkx

Shouting at a conversion isn't good commentary. If I had a nickel for every time K&M said "(they didn't) respect the plus frames" in their various stints as commentators then I could've funded a better run tournament than EVO.
UD is great . Aris is great . honesly- still two of my fav But - K&M are way better at commentating MKX. period. if you had a nickle for every time they said that - youd have just as much $$$ as when Aris says "lord -insert name/" ( tanyer/jensen/takader/ take your pick) or a slip up on tech information.. Stop me if im wrong.

i feel some of yall are missing just what Foxy is saying about Aris and UD vs MKX norm commentators. IMO ARIS and UD honestly havent grown WITH MKX in recent months. Yes they are a major part of the FG community but when it comes to MKX and EVO- we should have had someone who's pretty much been "OUR Guys" for us during top 8. ( under top 8 - pick whoever-)

KP, K&M, Chef are prime examples- name one thing they havent put their 120% into when it came to mkx. From Launch until now. (Shit, even before launch.) example. Name one time on stream KP DIDNT tell people to come out and play ? no contest , they have been always involved- whether commentating, PLAYING or just helping out when they can.

Plus -if all other things- there should be a respect there that was just not acknowledged.


lets put it this way
who do you think has more knowledge about the game
who do you think has more love for the game
who do you think has more connection with the players
who do you think has more of a chance to invite people to just come play mkx and have fun
who do you think can give more insight to out mkx events
who do you think has more insider stories on personal rivalries, country rivals, and just match ups in general.
Whens the last time they entered to play MKX at a tourney ?

all in all - im just saying
 
I don't get the Aris hate. You don't get two encyclopedias to do commentary, and contrary to popular belief (in this thread being as in real life people seem to generally know it's not the case) not just "anyone" can be funny. In fact, I'd say most people are aggressively UNFUNNY. They either try waaaaaay to hard (nut punch jokes har har booty splash from Kitanna sooo funny) or just spit frame data at you.

IF, you can get the holy grail and get someone that's both knowledgeable AND funny (like Bit or KP) then go for that, but I'd much rather have Aris cracking jokes and the 2nd commentator bring the knowledge than just get a constant stream of frame data and "I don't agree with that".
 
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HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
And you're partially right, because after fourteen years most moved on to S4 for their main game. Even the melee exclusive ones agree that it doesn't need to drag on for up to eight damnable minutes per game though.
I am sorry but most of the main melee players (at least the recognizable ones) still seem to focus on melee. Hell m2k dropped out of smash 4 to play melee. They have more split into two communities with slight overlap more than many of them moving on it seems. Also I agree with you that melee is a nightmare in terms of length but I just haven't seen much of melee community itself complaining about it.
 
Fair enough. It happens to us all. Personally, I thought all of SFV top 8 was more hype. Okay, minus like... Yukodon and Etta.
There was a Nash or Chun involved in every match of top 8, but people lose their shit about acidic getting used once.
 
Could it be because Nash and Chun aren't even half as oppressive as Alien?

Not trying to be mean here, but the separation between Alien and the rest and Nash and the rest isn't even comparable.
Infiltration has been just as dominant as Fox, and they make up a larger segment of top 8. Mayhaps just more NRS petulance where other communities realize top tiers are a part of life.
 

Somea2V

Thread Referee
Infiltration has been just as dominant as Fox, and they make up a larger segment of top 8. Mayhaps just more NRS negativity where other communities realize top tiers are a part of life.
While it very likely could be that other communities accept top tiers and hit the lab more than ours does, I really don't see Nash or any of the other top tiers steamrolling as much of the cast as Alien does. Even respective to size of cast.
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
It makes me wonder if EVO's gotten to breaking point in terms of being too big a tournament to do all the games justice. Maybe they should cut the official number of games down.
 

GandyMan

If anyone can, the GandyMan can!
I wish i could have been there, just to be there wouldn't have been enough- I would have had to assist or try to help with brackets. I'm giving all my energy to DTN and Summer Jam | Here's to hoping that the rest of the tournament year has better standards.
 

Colest

Mid-Tier 'Mancer Main
To start, since I have to somewhere, this "large cross section of players that know Aris" would probably know him more for the controversy he tends to leave in his wake moreso than his average-at-best commentary on games he doesn't actively play and acceptable commentary on games he does. I doubt if I put a poll out there that put him against Tom, Pig, KP, hell DMS and 16 bit and K&M, that he would overtake even a single one of them for MKX.
Fallacy number one regarding every discussion like this from a TYM regular. They assume that TYM is the entire MKX world and that the hundred or so regulars that post here are the end all, be all of the scene. Friendly tip: there were 72k peak viewers (from what I watched) of top 8 MKX during EVO this year. Do you think every single one of those people are TYM members? A poll on this website would equate to a circlejerk popularity contest. It would have very little substantive determination of who is the better commentator, much less from someone who seemingly didn't even know who, arguably, the fourth most popular commentator of the entire FGC was. If you think Aris is most known for his Kayo-Police controversy then you've shown your hand.

Aris provides not a single solitary thing that another person can't just do.
Flat out wrong. Aris provides Aris. Again if you knew who this person was, how long they had been apart of the community, the popularity he garnishes, you would know this. People will tune into matches solely to watch Aris. He is also pretty regularly welcome in other communities for the FGC and has commentated just about every game save GG and MVC3 off the top of my head. His personality is an acquired taste however he is his biggest selling point.

As a commentator for our game, a game he hasn't touched or looked into in months, he provides not a single iota of value unique to him in any way. If K&M had said it, it WOULD have been a big joke because they are actually active in the game and community, and not openly expressing how they haven't given the game a sideways glance since KP2 dropped.
Boy howdy that's a lot of baseless assumptions you're making there.

I haven't got the patience to flip through 5 months of old tweets or footage to try and find when he last mentioned the game.
Oh man he hasn't posted about MKX on his social media feeds?!? Well I guess I don't even know SFV exists since I don't post about it on my twitter, much less play it and keep up with the scene. (In case you find yourself too thick to get it, that was sarcasm.)

[Do you know why you get the impression that Aris comes off as a "nobody" to people in the community? Do you know why it's assumed he has no knowledge of the game? It's because anyone who has joined after 5 months into the games life would understandably never know if he played the game at all, since past that point it would be a challenge to see him having engaged with us in any way whatsoever outside of taking up commentary positions where better suited people could be.
People, i.e. the dozen or so of you troglodytes in this thread, think Aris is a nobody because they've been plugged into the FGC for all of a year and only tuned into MKX. These same people probably were wondering who that Seth Killian guy was with that other black dude on ESPN 2. These people make generalizations about the FGC as a whole (Capcom gets preferential treatment, NRS is the black sheep, no other community is as toxic as us, etc.) when they haven't bothered to look at what the FGC at large even has to say. They read shitposts from stream monsters and think that SRK at large is speaking directly to them. These people should probably do one of two things. They should get some perspective by engaging with the FGC at large before making assumptions about them or they should keep their comments specific to the users of TYM which is the farthest their perspective goes.

I don't need to know Aris to know his commentary on our game is lacking to say the least, and counterproductive to say the most. I also don't need a degree to know what makes a good commentator, and I can tell you it's more than a complete lack of knowledge and some random jokes that aren't entirely jokes. Aris is a good commentator for games that he is active in, as I've said about 3 times. Aris on Tekken 7 commentary? A good fit, great even. Aris on Soul Caliber? Sure, I'd find that to be just fine.
Calling you out on your bullshit again. You haven't watched a single match of Tekken or Soul Caliber commentated by him. If you did you'd know that this is how he commentates. He has, and likely always will, lean farther on the spectrum of the entertainment side rather than the technical side. Aris is never in the hot seat by himself precisely because of that. He needs a technical foil for his banter to bounce off of. The reference will be lost on you but UltraChen's success stemmed a lot from Chen bouncing his dry humor off of David. This dynamic is used A LOT in sports commentary in general, so much so it's mocked in sports parody media. It may not be your thing and that's fine, but it's what has garnished him the following he has and his commentary seemed pretty well regarding in the stream, on social media, and pretty much everywhere else but this thread.

For our game, though, he was easily the worst of the options we had.
Lemme stop you right there. This ego trip that some members of TYM seem to be on, that they can custom tailor the events to their liking with waning entry figures and views at that, is a cancer. The TOs run the events. The TOs decide what is best for their events. You think EVO would miss us? Hell I'd be surprised if even Injustice 2 could rival SFV next year. I'm all for speaking out at events that are subpar. Combo Breaker, or whatever it was that KP saved, with the mess that was their pools and streams was unacceptable. The lack of seating at EVO this year was unacceptable as well. Bitching about getting bumped back in time when we truthfully had no business being on the main stage to begin with is just acting entitled. Bitching about TYM's populars not being commentators is just acting entitled. Bitching about brackets that were seeded acceptably is just acting entitled. A group of TYM members seems very intent on burning bridges with the FGC yet they scratch their heads whenever stream monsters get up in arms against NRS games. Whoever said it earlier is right, that the attitudes in this thread are putting us on track to be the next smash community and we clearly don't have the motivation and coordination to keep the game alive like they do.

Let's be real here. Aris got to choose what game he commentated. Do you think he picked a game he didn't do some research on? Do you think he picked a game he wasn't comfortable talking about? Do you think he picked a game he didn't like? He could've stuck with Tekken if he wanted but he chose MKX, just like David. It takes a special kind of arrogance to assume with no evidence that he went into this game blind and for the shit of it.

This isn't a charity stream, notoriety and followers take a backseat to valid information from qualified and active representatives.
Aris didn't provide any misinformation. You were too dense to recognize sarcasm. You readily admitted if K&M had said it you would find it acceptable, that's quite literally confessing to an ad hominem fallacy.

People aren't bitching that it wasn't open mic night, rather the opposite. They're bitching because they gave the mic to the one guy who, frankly and again considering the other options, had the least business taking it. I'm 100% standing by this stance, I like Aris and I think that in spite of his controversies here and there he is fantastic in his element and is a nice enough guy, but never in a billion million years would I pass up the line-up of Kitana Prime, K&M, Tom Brady, Pig of the Hut, and DMS and then look at Aris and say "This is the best option to represent our community on commentary in top 8 at the biggest tournament in the world."
The only one that has any business commentating an event of this caliber is Kitana Prime. He and David are the UltraChen of MKX. Would've liked to have seen that but Aris was entertaining enough. Tom Brady is not open mic night? Seriously? As much as I love watching the five year train wreck that is Bill Menoutis coming to terms with his mediocrity in NRS games, the last thing EVO needed was another episode of the Tom "Armchair Quarterback of TYM" Brady show. K&M haven't developed their on air personalities/chemistry enough yet to match this stage. They use too much verbal filler. Maybe next year but when your most prestigious claim is being picked up by ESL, the same ESL that picked up Hitbox "That was SO SMART" Godspeed, then it doesn't entail much bragging rights or claims to the biggest tournament of the year, much less over people that are 10+ years their senior.

I get K&M are popular here. They're nice guys. They know the game pretty well. They share tech. Choosing commentators isn't a popularity contest though. EVO chose who they thought would serve the best and, again from the reception on everywhere but here, they chose correctly.

Edit: Sajam speaking the truth.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
So, why is this thread 18 pages of people arguing about commentary when a ton of other points were also raised?

This thread went ass in seconds.
Most of the other points weren't exclusive to the MKX community.

Smash, etc. raised most of the same concerns about seating, visibility, delays, pool-running confusion etc. They were event-wide.

Like Tony Cannon said, they switched to 2 brand new venues, and that + the record-breaking turnout brought with it some logistical issues that affected a lot of the tournaments.

Commentary was the one issue that was actually specific to us. And since the tone of the thread was about our community specifically being snubbed, it's the only one that actually applied.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
@Kitana Prime is one of the few people I see talking sense in this thread. You don't just run away from an event because it wasn't the experience you wanted. You communicate, offer to help where you can, and try to make it better.

The air of entitlement needs to go.. The only way the FGC grows to the heights it deserves to reach, is if everyone's in this together.
 

Linkuei82

Live by the sword, Die by the sword
Premium Supporter
Chris G is streaming right now discussing his experience at Evo. It's not just the NRS that had problems on what happened over the weekend.