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Why do we let EVO treat us like this?

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
The thing is, the other complaints are valid. So is the commentator one, since most people are going to be experiencing EVO from home and some people care about how we are represented to the world. You guys always say we get the shaft and aren't treated equally, yet when the people that are our top 8 commentators are called into question somehow it's not relevant to the problem how some 200k people see us at the biggest part of our biggest event.

If we want better treatment, we have to start somewhere. Commentary is one of the easiest things to discuss and change.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Sexual harassment isn't harmful, wut? Seriously, look into the stuff he did in Cross Assault to Super Yan. I really think that's being downplayed as some harmless fun, when it's decidedly not. If he was a regular sports commentator instead of esports, he wouldn't find work as such after what he did, but because of that one letter we seem overwhelmingly kosher putting him up there again.
Chris Berman has offended many people with what he has said, but he's tremendous at doing highlights. He created the way to do commentary for highlights. I'm glad he's still doing it.

If I'm fully up on what Aris did, but it seems to me it was just words.

Its nothing like this...
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Aris didn't provide any misinformation. You were too dense to recognize sarcasm. You readily admitted if K&M had said it you would find it acceptable, that's quite literally confessing to an ad hominem fallacy.
The post is too big to waste time arguing every point (and trust me, I love to argue a lot but we both need to chill since we probably don't want to piss off the mods), but two things.

One: Learn your fallacies. Saying one person could say something and get away with it, but it's not okay for another isn't ad hominem. It's double standard.
However, your entire argument falls under special pleading. So you're not in the clear either.

Second, Aris was not the best commentator for MKX, and bringing "Aris" to the table isn't enough for what is essentially our super bowl. I don't care if you like the guy, think he is funny, think he is the infallible perfect choice for any game he sits on, at the end of the day there should never be a moment where he is in the same room or even building as Kitana Prime, K&M (despite what you think, I'd think they would do great for commentary), 16 bit, or Pig of the Hut and be chosen for commentary. Never. I'll concede Brady as a personal bias, but the rest of them would do fine.

We can agree to disagree since it's over and done with, and proper representation can be done in a separate topic.

Instead, lets talk about how EVO was in two buildings that were a $20 taxi ride from one another or a 31 minute walk in 105* weather apart. I wasn't much a fan of that.
 

tafka Djinn

One for three off the roof
Chris Berman has offended many people with what he has said, but he's tremendous at doing highlights. He created the way to do commentary for highlights. I'm glad he's still doing it.

If I'm fully up on what Aris did, but it seems to me it was just words.

Its nothing like this...
*INSERT HYUGA IS HORRIBLE HERE*
Oh trust me, the Hyuga situation is something that I think should get him blackballed completely, and I would like to see legal action taken, but I can understand Vikki's point in not going for it.
I never liked Berman as a commentator, but I'll concede that he does still have a commentary job. I actually did like Aris before that point, I just can't see why after that, and his heavy usage of a particular LGBT+ derogatory slur, he still gets treated with such respect as a commentary option.
 
Reactions: GAV

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
I watched the one with Red Raptor. It was on Twitch Channel EVOSRK4.

Anywho, impressive performance.
I played against Red Raptor in a corner on an empty table, far away from everything, and we had to look for a chair to sit down. That's one of the complaints. You're thinking on Hayateis.
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
I agree this thread has gone WAY off topic.. Some mod like @Tim Static or whomever should split all the commentator stuff into a new thread. This was supposed to be able EVO right?
Commentary concerns were addressed in the original post...how is that off topic? And even if it wasn't in the OP it should have been, and is something that many, many people were ranting about on Twitter as the Top 8 was going down. So zero need to separate it....
 
To the question can you get some Street Fighter without sexual harassment:
"You can't. You can't because they're one and the same thing. This is a community that's, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it's not the fighting game community" - Aris

When asked if shouting "rape that bitch!" at a match is acceptable: "Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There's nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we're in America, man, this isn't North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional." - Aris


Just google Aris Super_Yan, the dude is a toxic asset to the FGC. It'll come down to a point where we either get him, or respectable esports.
I've done a fuck ton of stream monstering over the last few years, and Aris has hardly ever made an off color comment on an MKX stream. I've heard far, FAR, more shitty (hence the aggressively unfunny comment I made earlier in this thread) sexual jokes from "insiders" in our community on stream than I've heard from Aris while female characters are being used. Aris is mostly just throwing out variations of okizimumi and puns about things like wakeups "what's for breakfast".
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
Commentary concerns were addressed in the original post...how is that off topic? And even if it wasn't in the OP it should have been, and is something that many, many people were ranting about on Twitter as the Top 8 was going down. So zero need to separate it....
its all your call. I just think this thread became a discussion about Aris and to a lesser extent Ultradavid over the main theme which was how to improve evo and if the NRS scene should try and make a smaller major our main focus.
 

jmt

Noob
Your hatred of Aris rivals my own hatred of Alien.

I wanted K&M to commentate top 8, but I don't think Aris is bad. I think he and UD did a fine job. It just wasn't K&M, who IMO are the best at commentating MKX.

Can someone educate me on what Aris said or did to get this much venom? Maybe link me to the video...

It would be appreciated.
I don't hate hm at all, I just don't think he is a good commentator.
 
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minko

Noob
So many pages, so little sense made. Still, the few like KP give me some hope.
But regarding the quality of the top 8s, agreed, mkx was the best - but you couldnt exactly forsee it since, imho, last year mkx had the worst top 8...
 

SM StarGazer

The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt
If ya wanna be esports. Act like Esports. Its like work and play....seperate the shit.

So basically slow people whom need help understanding common sense canunderstand this: FGC is for personal streams within respectable guidelines..ah la no racism, or general douchebag stuff.

Esports is suit and tie, PROFESSIONAL GAMING!

Let me ask a basic question. The fuck can you expect people to see you as a professional when you dont act in a manner that is deemed 'professional'?

#GrowUp
#Lord Spawn for Inj2/KP3.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Official ESL Gaming
Guess I'll make a serious post (although trolling Shazzy is serious business):

I thought Ultradavid's commentary was great, he told the stories, filled in the context, etc. that we needed on a stage like that with tons of viewers that don't follow the MKX scene.

I think Aris is a hilarious commentator, but personally, I felt he might have been a little bit too silly for the scope of Top 8. He's funny, but for example hearing Demo's wakeup being called "pocket sand" over and over in a top 3 Evo match made me feel like the stakes weren't as high as they were. Also there were a few things he got wrong, like saying that Dragon was one of the only people to challenge Fox in the past, when he's (no offense dragon) not even stood a chance in the past. Overall I did enjoy his commentary though, and him and David work really well as a team imo.


I of course would have loved to see at least one NRS dedicated commentator up there, but all that we can do is keep working on our commentary until they want us up there!
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
I played against Red Raptor in a corner on an empty table, far away from everything, and we had to look for a chair to sit down. That's one of the complaints. You're thinking on Hayateis.
Red Raptor is another of my favorite players. I am going to search for the video. There was no commentary.

I saw the Hayate match too.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Oh trust me, the Hyuga situation is something that I think should get him blackballed completely, and I would like to see legal action taken, but I can understand Vikki's point in not going for it.
I never liked Berman as a commentator, but I'll concede that he does still have a commentary job. I actually did like Aris before that point, I just can't see why after that, and his heavy usage of a particular LGBT+ derogatory slur, he still gets treated with such respect as a commentary option.
Alot of people in positions like that are very flawed, but anger only hurts the angry ones. Forgive - especially since all that he really did was say some dumb shit.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
I do think that the biggest issue was the unacceptable treatment of the players.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
News Editor
Official ESL Gaming
K&M are great, but I hate hearing play-by-play commentary.
I just want to chime in on this one.

You're completely entitled to your opinion on us, it's fine for you to think that. But something we need to address is that Mustard and I are Esports commentators, we started our commentary careers on a pro league that required 100% professionalism. Our style of casting has been shaped around that. People are hit and miss about that style of commentary, but it has to be that way for the two of us as we also apply our style for other games where it's also extremely important.
 

SneakyTortoise

Official Master of Salt
Director of Content
I haven't read all 20 pages of nonsense, but did a single one of the NRS commentators send a commentary reel in for the consideration at the time they were asking for them? If not, how on earth can anyone complain?
 

Colest

Mid-Tier 'Mancer Main
One: Learn your fallacies. Saying one person could say something and get away with it, but it's not okay for another isn't ad hominem. It's double standard.
It's an ad hominem because of the mass of text I laid out earlier pointing out that you made baseless assumptions about him and his motives for the purpose of defaming him to credit your argument.

"Aris doesn't know MKX so he was misinforming people regardless of whether it was sarcasm or not."

The purpose of pointing out you'd be cool with it for K&M is only to show that it has everything to do with Aris' perceived clout in the NRS community.
 
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CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I haven't read all 20 pages of nonsense, but did a single one of the NRS commentators send a commentary reel in for the consideration at the time they were asking for them? If not, how on earth can anyone complain?
Only one I've seen so far from the ist of favs (Brady, Bit, etc) is KP's reel. And UD did specifically tweet him to make sure he sent it in.

Most of the people whose names were brought up did not send reels.

Sajam was one of the first guys to have a reel up, and UD, Markman, and most of the other top commentators for other games were publicly promoting their reels weeks ago.

But even more importantly than that, I think it's important that people just make their voices heard to real people about what they want to see. Like, Chris Ceglia is a real person, with a Twitter account, and yet most people are complaining in threads 'to no one in particular'.

I know Pig said he's willing to reach out in the future, and that's a decent start. But he shouldn't be the only one; if you want certain things at an event, get together and speak to the specific people who make things happen.
 
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PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
News Editor
Official ESL Gaming
I haven't read all 20 pages of nonsense, but did a single one of the NRS commentators send a commentary reel in for the consideration at the time they were asking for them? If not, how on earth can anyone complain?
All commentators must submit a reel. This would have been done by every commentator at EVO way in advance.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
It's an ad hominem because of the mass of text I laid out earlier pointing out that you made baseless assumptions about him and his motives for the purpose of defaming him to credit your argument.

"Aris doesn't know MKX so he was misinforming people regardless of whether it was sarcasm or not."

The purpose of pointing out you'd be cool with it for K&M is only to show that it has everything to do with Aris' perceived gravitas.
Normally I'd have a long, well spoken post about how you've got the wrong definition of ad hominem and should learn the difference between personal attacks and calling someone on their qualifications or lack thereof, but I decided to delete it because I've already decided not to further the argument. So instead, I'll leave you to your own devices and hope you find it in yourself to drop the issue since it's been made clear that people don't want to hear about our perceptions on whom is the best or worst choices.

If you have more pressing issues to post about (such as the idiocy of putting the event at two separate locations on opposite sides of town) then feel free to and I'll meet you with conversation.
 

Colest

Mid-Tier 'Mancer Main
If you have more pressing issues to post about (such as the idiocy of putting the event at two separate locations on opposite sides of town) then feel free to and I'll meet you with conversation.
Don't think there's really much to discuss. It shouldn't have happened.