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Why do we let EVO treat us like this?

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
People have been saying it constantly, but the complainers have no idea and are really loud, also they are echoed by the scrubs. The problem is that some prominent people in the community that have a lot if cred spread just as much BS about OP characters as some guy on gamefaqs that just got beat 10/0 by Unbreakable Sub.. so it MUST be OP.

People post constantly about how NRS patches to much and the game is not given life, then bitch and moan like the top tier characters are completely undefeatable and that a patch is needed. While the truth is that the community is already starting to expose Alien and work out how to deal with it.

People talk about the "downplay" that goes on around here, but the other direction is worse.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Premium Supporter
I think "switching" from evo is the stupidest idea I have ever seen on this forum. It is the biggest and the most covered event around. Everyone should go to it if they like fighting games.

That being said there is no reason that MK can not have a "main event" type thing. Evo is only a stop on the Capcom Pro Tour for example. They run a invitational only best in the world event and Evo is just a qualifier.

There is nothing stopping the NRS community from focusing on another event like CB or KiT or CEO or w/e. That being said.. boycotting Evo? That is seriously stupid in all regards.

What I would like to see is ESL and WB keep supporting MKx. If there is a lucrative competition of the quality of ESL running well into Injustice 2, as in both Injustice and MK have ESL events. Then I can not see why the player base wouldn't grow.

MK Lost a lot of ground form the Netcode, but Injustice will not have that problem. When the mass of new players comes in and the code is good and ESL is there for both MK and Injustice, the NRS scene competitive player base should grow and this will translate as more EVO participants.

There is a real chance here for WB and NRS to consolidate their companies as premier competitive games, if they play their cards right. Abandoning the game, letting ESL die and the player base to fade away would be a terrible shame when they are so close to building a lasting scene.

I really think ESL is the key, more so than the physical majors. It is the online "scrub" player base we need to court, not provide for the pros at majors.. (they are already playing). ESL seams like a great way to keep average joes playing well into the game life and getting a taste for competitive play. THAT will translate into more players at the awesome Majors mentioned and EVO itslef.
There's a difference between boycotting and shifting focus, I never said 'don't return to Evo'.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Premium Supporter
So.... What is the next step?

Who do we talk too and how much support will we need from NRS & WB?

Do we let it die after most of you have vented or do we move on and see what we can do as the best step forward.

If evo was this bad and other tournament organizers might know now how do we prevent such issues like this from happening again.

I think it's started. The communication from the community seems somewhat agreeable in some retrospectives.

Props to @A F0xy Grampa for bringing this to light. I saw from the stream the looks on people's faces. I can feel it and understand your concerns.

Where do we as a young community do next? Lots of ideas are being floated around.

This communication is honestly a very good step forward I would think.
Well perhaps we could get the Evo staff to communicate with staff of other events that we consider our best events so they can collaborate?

Would it be outlandish for say, ESL to be given the reigns of the NRS scene at an event like Evo?

This is the difficult part I suppose, but that's the point of the thread, to brainstorm.

Another option could be, we still attend Evo, but put more emphasis on other events such as tcw, CEO, CB etc, so that maybe one day they can be as strong in turnout as something like Evo. Ultimately the only difference between Evo and any other tournament would be the number of entrants, if TCW hypothetically could pull in 1k MK players, would Evo still be our most prestigious tournament? And if that were the case, we'd then have 3 events of that prestige instead of just the one.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Well perhaps we could get the Evo staff to communicate with staff of other events that we consider our best events so they can collaborate?

Would it be outlandish for say, ESL to be given the reigns of the NRS scene at an event like Evo?

This is the difficult part I suppose, but that's the point of the thread, to brainstorm.

Another option could be, we still attend Evo, but put more emphasis on other events such as tcw, CEO, CB etc, so that maybe one day they can be as strong in turnout as something like Evo. Ultimately the only difference between Evo and any other tournament would be the number of entrants, if TCW hypothetically could pull in 1k MK players, would Evo still be our most prestigious tournament? And if that were the case, we'd then have 3 events of that prestige instead of just the one.
One does not simply walk into Mandalay Bay. There are years worth of history going into EVO -- saying it's just a number of entrants really doesn't do it's legacy justice.

It's something special because it was made that way over years, not overnight.

But it isn't necessary to denigrate EVO or try to diminish it somehow just to have other events of your own. If you want to start something, it can be big, and EVO can still be big, and we can stop this 1 vs. the other/dog-eat-dog mentality.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
And I thought the Smash community were the crybabies.... Wait wait. I knew this was coming. Did Tom Brady hack Foxy's login? Tom is that you? Somebody's just mad Aris is actually funny on the mic.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Premium Supporter
And I thought the Smash community were the crybabies.... Wait wait. I knew this was coming. Did Tom Brady hack Foxy's login? Tom is that you? Somebody's just mad Aris is actually funny on the mic.
Did you read the post?

Commentary wasn't even the main point, it's just the main point spoken about because more people watch than attend, so that's the side they'll see and therefore comment on.

But it's still not the most important point.
I've already stated that Aris is a top tier commentator, he's one of my favourites in the entire FGC.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Sorry but they're not as knowledgable of the game as K&M or KP or Pig or Brady.
I didn't say they were, and agree. But it was in reference to those saying they aren't "our" commentators. I would rather have KP or M&K as well, but that wasn't my point. Ultra David and Aris do a fine job and they do represent the community well.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
There's a difference between boycotting and shifting focus, I never said 'don't return to Evo'.
This is a major distinction people aren't getting. We will always support EVO but we as a community can decide what tournament is OUR world championships. Like I said, EVO is the Street Fighter world championship.

We need to be proactive instead of reactive though. This post isn't directed at you Foxy, btw. But we need to decide which tournament we want to support for us, and personally I think TCW could be that tournament. It's the only "grassroots" Major like tournament where MK is the main event. TCW has my vote. @Mr Aquaman
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Premium Supporter
This is a major distinction people aren't getting. We will always support EVO but we as a community can decide what tournament is OUR world championships. Like I said, EVO is the Street Fighter world championship.

We need to be proactive instead of reactive though. This post isn't directed at you Foxy, btw. But we need to decide which tournament we want to support for us, and personally I think TCW could be that tournament. It's the only "grassroots" Major like tournament where MK is the main event. TCW has my vote. @Mr Aquaman
KiT is another example, that and TCW would be my vote
 

Colest

Mid-Tier 'Mancer Main
Aris claiming Demolition Sonya is "never complained about, the hardworking honest Sonya who earns her wins" and all of that jazz.
Alright, this is the umpteenth time it's been commented on so I'm gonna say it. If you take what Aris says seriously you either don't know him or are an idiot. This is the person who refers to Leatherface as "Leather Krueger," Jason as "Lord Jensen," and Kitana as "Kitainer." Most every word that comes out of his mouth is sarcasm. He very, painfully in fact, obviously didn't say that seriously. Watch even 5 minutes of his stream or any other event he's commentated and this would be very clear.
 

shura30

Shura
K&M could use some of that Aris spice tho and become the best

I quite like his memes but once you get past the 110th 'jensen' or 'overhead city' it's noticeable that his knowledge of the game is very limited. works great with UD that provides balance

so, clearly K&M are more 'ours' but choosing between the two couples isn't an easy task
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
This is a major distinction people aren't getting. We will always support EVO but we as a community can decide what tournament is OUR world championships. Like I said, EVO is the Street Fighter world championship.

We need to be proactive instead of reactive though. This post isn't directed at you Foxy, btw. But we need to decide which tournament we want to support for us, and personally I think TCW could be that tournament. It's the only "grassroots" Major like tournament where MK is the main event. TCW has my vote. @Mr Aquaman

Apex = Smash, Final Round = Tekken. Neither one of those mean that Tekken/Smash players aren't going to and supporting EVO, they just have tournaments to call their own apart from the "World Championships". TCW, CB, CEO, KiT, all viable.
 

shura30

Shura
Just no.

I don't know what Kool-Aid you people are drinking to be on the Aris band wagon, but I can't understand how you people enjoy him. He's basically a walking, talking, negative stereotype of gamers.
that's why I used the word 'spice'

I enjoy him (while paired with someone that actually has game knowledge) because he's able to use some gamer slang in such hype and fun way
some of his older lines like 'your mk tattoo it's now glowing' gave me goosebumps on a few occasions
It's clear that he's got a personality and is able to talk for the entire duration of a match

K&M has a more 'professional' approach tho
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Alright, this is the umpteenth time it's been commented on so I'm gonna say it. If you take what Aris says seriously you either don't know him or are an idiot. This is the person who refers to Leatherface as "Leather Krueger," Jason as "Lord Jensen," and Kitana as "Kitainer." Most every word that comes out of his mouth is sarcasm. He very, painfully in fact, obviously didn't say that seriously. Watch even 5 minutes of his stream or any other event he's commentated and this would be very clear.
Great for people who watch his things.
Sadly, that's about 1% of the population, the other 99% of which didn't catch on that he was being sarcastic (since you've said its the umpteenth time).
So yeah, public outcry against it is still somewhat justified, especially when you consider the arguably far superior options to having him on commentary since he hasn't, iirc to his own admission, touched or gone in-depth with the game since KP2 was released.

It's fine that he might not have said it seriously, but frankly based on reactions its something that shouldn't have been said at all. I don't personally understand the idea that someone who is 90% sarcasm and 10% actual information is a better option for EVO commentary and defensible versus people who can be 90% actual information. Being funny isn't exactly something in low supply, literally anyone can be funny, but not everyone can represent our game and give in-depth commentary on community stories or character options at the level that a tournament like that should call for. That's my opinion on it.

Like me in my severely food poisoned state can sit on a microphone, blather on about nothing and be "sarcastic", and not mention a thing about actual important factors in the match. As long as they have a bin for me to make sick into every so often, it would take that small of an effort to be an "good commentator" by that standard. Not to put Aris down, he is fine in other games, but not this one, not now, and not at EVO when we have every other possible option available.

I would openly take salty Brady who just lost because ice clone malfunctioned and he fought a character with a female hitbox over Aris for EVO MKX commentary.

Hell I'd take Irishmantis, Foxy, Scott the Scot, and Myself all arguing in thick accents about Jaffa Cakes vs Jammie Dodgers or what chippy we should go to after the tourney over Aris for EVO MKX Commentary

As I said, Aris is a fine commentator, but not then and not for that game and event given the other options we had.
 
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Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
This is a major distinction people aren't getting. We will always support EVO but we as a community can decide what tournament is OUR world championships. Like I said, EVO is the Street Fighter world championship.

We need to be proactive instead of reactive though. This post isn't directed at you Foxy, btw. But we need to decide which tournament we want to support for us, and personally I think TCW could be that tournament. It's the only "grassroots" Major like tournament where MK is the main event. TCW has my vote. @Mr Aquaman
I'd vote for CEO, personally, but that's because it's one of the few tourneys I actively want to attend, and everyone seemed to love it this year.
 

Euphoric

MKX
Premium Supporter
Well perhaps we could get the Evo staff to communicate with staff of other events that we consider our best events so they can collaborate?

Would it be outlandish for say, ESL to be given the reigns of the NRS scene at an event like Evo?

This is the difficult part I suppose, but that's the point of the thread, to brainstorm.

Another option could be, we still attend Evo, but put more emphasis on other events such as tcw, CEO, CB etc, so that maybe one day they can be as strong in turnout as something like Evo. Ultimately the only difference between Evo and any other tournament would be the number of entrants, if TCW hypothetically could pull in 1k MK players, would Evo still be our most prestigious tournament? And if that were the case, we'd then have 3 events of that prestige instead of just the one.
EVO gets its prestige because of the international competition and players from all over the world traveling. You never know who might just show up. An MK exclusive event will only funnel MK players but you never know which other FG player is playing MK and does well. For example, KaneBlueRiver's brother sent PL to losers, who would have thought, he has a sick D'Vorah.

If the Olympics only allowed US players it'd be kind of pointless. Not the best analogy but it's the only one I can think of.

I understand your point however, but personally, I think this community needs to rebuild its self more positively for any progression to be made.

Everyone needs to just play the game, pro players publicly scrutinizing the game and its developers only hurts its perception and its so bogus to see that. Once again, I NEVER see that from other communities really.

When FANG lost to Chun, I don't see JWong going on Twitter and crying about 3-7 MU or something like that. I see concerns of course, every FG has their concerns about balance but I feel other communities handle it better.
 
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Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
EVO is prestigious because it's EVO just like Wrestlemania. It's not like, say, the Superbowl that has this huge buildup to this final game and is exclusive to the people that win enough. EVO is just another tournament, it's simply the biggest one but anyone has equal opportunities to go to EVO and something small like Youmacon.
 

jamessmk

I am your god
Why have not one person here even spoke a word to @Ponder instead of lynching? Maybe discuss with him, rather than bitch and moan! If not just stay in your Safe space and be quiet, up to you!
 

Colest

Mid-Tier 'Mancer Main
Great for people who watch his things.
Sadly, that's about 1% of the population, the other 99% of which didn't catch on that he was being sarcastic (since you've said its the umpteenth time).
There's a very large cross section of players that know Aris and know MKX and got the joke. Then there are people that know MKX that didn't recognize it was a joke but knew Sonya is not an honest character and they didn't get misinformed about the game.

For the remaining like 2 people who happen to be watching top 8 for a game they don't know at 8am, I apologize on behalf of Aris for misinforming you about the honesty of the top tier characters in this game. Let it be known that had K&M made this very comment it would've been a seen as a great joke and great example of their strong commentary. However, since Aris is a "nobody" according this thread he clearly has no knowledge of the game and has no right to commentate.

If you don't know Aris, then keep your opinions about commentators to yourself because you clearly have VERY little exposure with FGC events and the various commentators and thus you don't understand what constitutes a good commentator.

Aris is a divisive figure and I don't expect everyone to agree one way or the other about the positivity of his presence, but the dude brings his followers and noteriety to matches he commentates, much more so than K&M. We should welcome the exposure for a game that less than 1/7 of the entrants for the main event game. Instead people want to bitch that they weren't hosting open mic night at the biggest tournament of the year.
 
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The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
I'm not upset anymore about NRS folks viewing me as an outsider. I know that if 5 years of playing, finding tech for, & commentating NRS games didn't change minds, many of whom hadn't even started playing these games till later, that 6 years wouldn't either. I don't see myself quitting MK or ignoring Injustice 2, so, get used to it! But that's on you guys who feel that way to get over, not on me to worry about how to change.

I recall making some errors in my commentary, like I think I said I saw Tekken Master at ESL instead of Dreamhack? As always I'll review it later to see what I missed or could have done better but that's all that jumps out to me now.

Anyway clearly Evo made some mistakes in layout & schedule, I talked with some of them about it and they recognize it too. They know what to fix for next time. Running a 10,000 person 9 game tournament in a new venue in 2 days presents some pretty crazy challenges. And you may think SFV is priotitized, but that scene has some of the same complaints you guys do.
I think what really set people over the edge, me included, was that the twins seemed 100% sure they were gonna commentate top 8, and even gave up competing for it, then didn't even get the chance to play.

I'm sure there's much more to the situation than we know but as fans of K+M we just care about their career. I believe this resulted in a lot of misguided anger at the people who "stole their spot", which just happened to be you and Aris.

Don't listen to the misguided anger, the more people in the scene the better is what people need to realise. Especially someone who has established a name for themselves in the FGC along with being as knowledgeable as possible, it's not like you're a toxic guy.

You are a valued member of the community imo and are usually viewed as such anyway.