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Why do we let EVO treat us like this?

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Premium Supporter
I feel like people are ignoring that the 2/3 thing had been announced for MONTHS before people actually noticed. IMO the community has to hold the L for not reading the rules in advance.

Also James +1 on the Willy Wonka reference lol
I know for a fact notable members of the community had been trying to convince them to give us 3/5, so it's not like we were unaware, it's that we weren't listened to.
 

champdee

Noob
I'd complain, but I've been laid out sick since like the first day. I've only seen the inside of my hotel room for the past few days. Haven't stayed conscious long enough to watch stream.

It's a personal low tournament for me, but not because of th nrournament.
damn, feel better dude
 

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
I know for a fact notable members of the community had been trying to convince them to give us 3/5, so it's not like we were unaware, it's that we weren't listened to.

When you have 5K in sf and another 3 for the smash games, as well as having to accommodate a major broadcasting station; why would you worry so heavily about a game and community that's been known to boo over character choices?
 

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
Premium Supporter
I'm not upset anymore about NRS folks viewing me as an outsider. I know that if 5 years of playing, finding tech for, & commentating NRS games didn't change minds, many of whom hadn't even started playing these games till later, that 6 years wouldn't either. I don't see myself quitting MK or ignoring Injustice 2, so, get used to it! But that's on you guys who feel that way to get over, not on me to worry about how to change.

I recall making some errors in my commentary, like I think I said I saw Tekken Master at ESL instead of Dreamhack? As always I'll review it later to see what I missed or could have done better but that's all that jumps out to me now.

Anyway clearly Evo made some mistakes in layout & schedule, I talked with some of them about it and they recognize it too. They know what to fix for next time. Running a 10,000 person 9 game tournament in a new venue in 2 days presents some pretty crazy challenges. And you may think SFV is priotitized, but that scene has some of the same complaints you guys do.
dude, don't trip you had every right to be up there if that's what you chose. you've commentated our games since evo 2011 iono why people are trashing you. Just ignore it
 

Gooberking

Solidly Mediocre
It's weird that of all foxy's issues, the one most people care about is commentators. The absolute least important.
That's a matter of perspective. To the 700 people competing and however many attendees, it's the least important.

To the around 100K viewers that is how we experienced the whole event. Commentators are part of the conduit that we travel through to be able to take any kind of part in what is happening there or at any other event.

Without the stream you guys could all be hanging out in the middle of nowhere smoking old tires as far as the rest of the world would know or care. Having good guys on point has a profound effect on viewer enjoyment. They are the ones providing perspective - the who's who, and what's what of it all.

No matter what mic guys someone has a personal preference for, it's pretty damn important. And given that there are way more viewers than attendees, it's explainable why there are a lot of opinions about it. It's also a lot more subjective than no chairs.
 

Mr Aquaman

Tourny Master
I back this post, especially the last paragraph. We shouldn't expect other scenes to do for us what we can't do for ourselves. If the community can manage its own "NRS" Cup of some sort that would represent a HUGE leap for the NRS scene (call it Midway Classics so we can get competitive NBA Jam in there, lol!)

I feel like this scene needs it's version of a Gootecks, a Haunts, a Spooky, a Mr. Wizard, a central authority, for example, who see the big picture and have the drive and determination to make the scene bigger and eventually a sport, like what happened to Street Fighter. I feel like @Mr Aquaman is the only one on this road and everyone else needs to be on this page.

Most just keep talking, "This game is dead" or "This game isn't coming back for a third year for Evo" , harmful threads like "Do we like this game?" and other self-defeating nonsense that's gotten so out of control that SRK ran an article describing how MKXL this year at Evo is the games "swan song" (i.e. It ain't coming back next time) after only a second year at Evo. Here's the link:

http://shoryuken.com/2016/07/13/a-violent-swansong-mortal-kombat-x-at-evo-2016/

This story showed prominently on the top banner for all to see during Evo that MK isn't coming back since it's "a bittersweet show on the world's biggest stage" and "signs point to this being a last hurrah for Mortal Kombat X at Evo" (the author's words, not mine) so don't bother to learn the game, the game is dead, nothing to see here, you won't be awake anyway for the finals since it's at 8am anyway, play Street Fighter, and maybe KOF.

Where did this idea come from? Any outsider, who happens to write for other sites ( like SRK and Eventhubs) can just read the front page of this site or watch some popular MK top player's streams to find community hatred towards its own game and write articles that basically say, "Yeah, this game isn't gonna be around for long, they hate their own game!" (The signs that point to the demise of MK at Evo for an article at SRK).

The question should be, "How do we get the scene bigger?", "How do we get more weeklies going?" "What needs to happen to get entry numbers higher".

The Smash scene can do it, so can we.

@CrimsonShadow Would you like to chime in on this? I'd like to hear your opinion, if you don't mind.
God damn yall are making me feel the love in here!

Like last year MKX will be streamed ALL DAY saturday by DPS and have one of the prime time spots on sunday, if MKX beats SFVs number like it did IV's last year it will be the last game streamed. Prime time for a prime scene. MKX Made TCW and the north remembers.
 
Sonic Fox has the touch on everything.
Thank you so much! I fucking hate Aris with a burning passion and he's an appalling commentator. At least UD is a nice guy, semi knowledgeable about the game and is pleasant to listen to, Aris is just a prat

On topic though, I think Sonic might object to switching from Evo considering he's got the touch for it
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Long post incoming regarding Evo experience.

As an attendee, it was pretty subpar. I'm don't think I'm alone in voicing that I could not follow what the hell was happening from one minute to the next because the brackets were not updated and communication in general was very lacking across the board. I could understand the chair shortage since it was such a large event, but having been to many tournaments run by the fellas at LevelUp and even WCW done by Kai, I could not fathom why the staff did not have megaphones/bullhorns and radios to talk to the people in charge. They had people running back and forth from the center of the room like chickens with their heads cut off trying to fix everything, which delayed the tournament an extremely long amount of time. Not to mention the judges were guilty of rapid dq'ing and at one point actually leaning over in front of a monitor during a hotly contested match. Insanity.

Not only that, but I would really like to know who's decision it was to run EVERY SINGLE MATCH OF TOP 32 ON STREAM. That is a big fat no no for a tournament that is already running late with an 8 AM call time for the Grand Finals the next morning. Thankfully someone got it taken care of, but that was a really poor look for the biggest tournament of the year.

I think that for the next year, they really need to look into how the staff can communicate with each other because right now it is not effective. I remember being at Devastation 2011 where this was also a major issue that caused hours of delays. That alone will do a lot toward fixing the logistical issues of the tournament.

Now on to the other issue: commentary. @UltraDavid, having been in the Mandalay Center during top 8, I thoroughly enjoyed your commentary and felt we could not have had better representation from you. I even enjoyed Aris, who I've been highly critical of in the past. I thought he was on point with the color commentary and David did a decent job of filling in the gaps. There was of course some bizarre quotes, but everyone is guilty of that. The commentary was pretty damn good, and I enjoyed the hell out of it.

Having said that, I'm disappointed to see that there must clearly be some gap in how we view the quality of our commentary vs. the general FGC guys. Mustard and Ketchup and Wonder Chef and KP all seemed like they were making all the right moves and in contact with who they needed to be, and still couldn't get one of them to be a top 8 spot over Aris. Why? Are they bad? Or is the process just too...well, illuminati?

I realize that this is in no way your fault and do not intend to put any blame your way, David, but we were told time and again why we couldn't get people like the guys I mentioned above on top 8 commentary, and even after all that process was settled it still didn't work. I know you weren't the one deciding things, but do you have any insight as to why that could be?

I won't reiterate, but that top 8 was amazing. Extremely high level play from a bunch of talented players doing what they do best. And the most work done by a relative newcomer to the US tourney scene in TekkenMaster, who had previously lit up Dreamhack and several other European tournaments. I hope that gives some incentive to other players who have been playing online in ESL and elsewhere to come out and compete because that shows that dedication and persistence does pay off in the end.

The 2/3 thing is very whatever, and I don't think it would have affected much of anything. The results were pretty consistent with what we've seen and I'm not sure why that would change with one more game. If Honeybee or any of the other guys on Twitter complaining about that would have spent that time preparing for their bracket instead, they might have the results they desired.

TL;DR: I enjoyed the Top 8 and commentary, but there are some glaring logistical errors that should be addressed, particularly regarding how the game gets treated at the biggest tourney in the year and what our particular brand of ESL commentators need to do if they are not good enough for Evo (Which is the only conclusion I can draw). I do not think the answer is to split; that would do us no good considering we don't have the numbers and history of a Smash-like scene to just cut out the biggest tourney of the year. Fixing the problems from within sounds far easier and logical.
 
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Aramonde

Noob
I'm not upset anymore about NRS folks viewing me as an outsider. I know that if 5 years of playing, finding tech for, & commentating NRS games didn't change minds, many of whom hadn't even started playing these games till later, that 6 years wouldn't either. I don't see myself quitting MK or ignoring Injustice 2, so, get used to it! But that's on you guys who feel that way to get over, not on me to worry about how to change.

I recall making some errors in my commentary, like I think I said I saw Tekken Master at ESL instead of Dreamhack? As always I'll review it later to see what I missed or could have done better but that's all that jumps out to me now.

Anyway clearly Evo made some mistakes in layout & schedule, I talked with some of them about it and they recognize it too. They know what to fix for next time. Running a 10,000 person 9 game tournament in a new venue in 2 days presents some pretty crazy challenges. And you may think SFV is priotitized, but that scene has some of the same complaints you guys do.
I thought you guys did a great job commentating. I'm happy that you like MK and enjoy commentating it.
 

Skellington

Banned
David is just a better commentator than K&M. Same with Aris. Commentators are simultaneous hype men for matches while explaining what's occurring in terms that even someone with limited knowledge of high level MKX could understand. David, especially, does that extremely well. Shouting at a conversion isn't good commentary. If I had a nickel for every time K&M said "(they didn't) respect the plus frames" in their various stints as commentators then I could've funded a better run tournament than EVO.
I agree with this. How many time do Ketchup and Mustard have to scream at a conversion? Shit's annoying
Anybody who wants their place here should embrace it, there's nothing wrong with that, but just as ultrachen are the staple known commentators for SF, K&M are the same for MK.
Since when are K&M the "Staple" commentators for MK? You can't just name them "Staples". Sounds like you are biased.

huh, K&M are the staple commentators for NRS games? I don't remember that being the case for MK9 or Injustice, also, Aris has a solid resume in NRS games. He has achieved more in Inj and MK9 than K&M ever did, so how is he not one of our guys all of sudden. Honestly, it seems Foxy is just shillin out of bias.
^This
 
Let's be real @UltraDavid, even though I know you love commentating MKX my hunch is that you let SFV go so Sajam could have his time to shine. You the real MVP man, it looks like it meant the world to Steve.
no, at the time i made my game request, i had no idea who would do sfv. i just figured it'd be james and seth! i didn't know there'd be a separate espn stream and that sajam would get the nod on the twitch stream. that said, i'm really happy for sajam that he got top 8. i think he thought he'd get ki top 8, and he said he felt out of place doing sfv, but i'm glad he got to!
 

JerzeyReign

PSN: JerzeyReign
I didn't go so I can't speak on the setup of the areas but the 8am was pretty trash from a viewer perspective. I can understand if there was "only" 707 fighters but there was a 50K purse - that alone should've put MK towards the top. Not sure if the other games were offering that much. About the commentators, the Aris guy is very annoying when he commentates our game. For casual watchers, he probably does the trick but most of the viewers were hardcore players. We don't want to hear "he's throwing the thing on the ground" or whatever "funny" lines he tries to incorporate. I'd seriously rather hear DJT go 'mmmhhmmm' the entire time or that body building drunk dude from last year commentate than him (and thats not really a shot at them).
 
I wish I could attend TCW again this year @Mr Aquaman I'd even volunteer in some way, which is something I've never done for any tournament. Unfortunately, my finances won't allow it this year. So I may have to attend Civil War: Manifest Destiny in Cincinnati. Maybe I can get to TCW III
 
I think "switching" from evo is the stupidest idea I have ever seen on this forum. It is the biggest and the most covered event around. Everyone should go to it if they like fighting games.

That being said there is no reason that MK can not have a "main event" type thing. Evo is only a stop on the Capcom Pro Tour for example. They run a invitational only best in the world event and Evo is just a qualifier.

There is nothing stopping the NRS community from focusing on another event like CB or KiT or CEO or w/e. That being said.. boycotting Evo? That is seriously stupid in all regards.

What I would like to see is ESL and WB keep supporting MKx. If there is a lucrative competition of the quality of ESL running well into Injustice 2, as in both Injustice and MK have ESL events. Then I can not see why the player base wouldn't grow.

MK Lost a lot of ground form the Netcode, but Injustice will not have that problem. When the mass of new players comes in and the code is good and ESL is there for both MK and Injustice, the NRS scene competitive player base should grow and this will translate as more EVO participants.

There is a real chance here for WB and NRS to consolidate their companies as premier competitive games, if they play their cards right. Abandoning the game, letting ESL die and the player base to fade away would be a terrible shame when they are so close to building a lasting scene.

I really think ESL is the key, more so than the physical majors. It is the online "scrub" player base we need to court, not provide for the pros at majors.. (they are already playing). ESL seams like a great way to keep average joes playing well into the game life and getting a taste for competitive play. THAT will translate into more players at the awesome Majors mentioned and EVO itslef.
 
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Error

DF2+R2
Lol I watched a little of the top 8 again.

There's this part where Aris starts randomly going off about pepperoni mushroom jalapeno pizza.
He was talking about Kotal's Sun dial projectile I think, he's always called it a pizza. I just laugh at everything he says tbh.
 

SonicFox5000

The Best.
I 100% agree with the things foxy has said here. Ive known foxy for awhile and ive never seen him that annoyed at an event. Twas visibily noticeable before and after his matches. I didnt like us standing around all the time, half the tos being off, other tos wasting 2 hours of other players time for strem, just to tell them to play offstream etc.
Generally speaking, we felt very subpar and casted away. Got like the shortest end of the stick at evo in every way. Last years evo was far better than this ones for mkx.
With commentators, UD has ALWAYS beeb with us from the start. Easily one of my favs, HOWEVER, K&M literally gave up their tourny spots for this and werent chosen for top 8 commentary. I find them to be the most suitable commentators for out community (and from me being from like 5 other communities, they all LOVE k&m commentary). Im not mad at UD doing for what he loves or Aria, but if i were in k&ms position, id feel bitter about the whole thing.

I dont think we should leave EVO, but there needs to be communication. I dont want to experience whats suppose to be the superbowl of fgc to run us mk players so poorly again.
 

Ponder

Noob
Hey guys. I've only had a chance to read the first few pages of this thread, but I wanted to jump in and reply now.

First of all, thank you very much for coming to Evo and for the constructive way you've been discussing the issues you had there. This year we tried a lot of new things which greatly complicated the running of the event, including switching to a venue big enough to accommodate thousands of players, the arena setting for top 8, and a live television broadcast. Unfortunately, this resulted in a lot of things falling through the cracks.

Long story short, I agree 100% with nearly all the feedback I've read. We need to correct all these issues next year.

I'll have a more complete answer for you when I get home tomorrow, but I wanted to get this our there now. We will do better.