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Why do we let EVO treat us like this?

thehadou

Bumbling towards greatness.
Evo on twitter didn't even tweet when it started streaming. :mad:
Even at combo breaker we were dicked out of stream time if I'm not mistaken.
As someone who loves MKX please let me know where I can improve its balance across stream time for CB in the future. This year we scheduled 2 pool blocks, a character auction, and all of Top 32 for stream with MKX featured as the co-headliner on Sunday.
 
So I guess i'm alone here... But my favorite commentator team is UD and Aris lol. Aris is super entertaining and UD is a great commentator. It's like the perfect play by play guy matched with color commentator. No disrespect to KP or anyone else because we also have some great commentators too. But I have no problems at all with these guys because I enjoyed it.

Best NRS commentators imo are

Brady, KP, Twins, Bit and Pig. I like REO too when he commentates.
Lol, Aris is great, I watch his streams just to have a good laugh.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
huh, K&M are the staple commentators for NRS games? I don't remember that being the case for MK9 or Injustice, also, Aris has a solid resume in NRS games. He has achieved more in Inj and MK9 than K&M ever did, so how is he not one of our guys all of sudden. Honestly, it seems Foxy is just shillin out of bias.
This game is mkxl, it's 2016.

You forever gonna be stuck in 2012?
Stop the stupidity of hating on me just because you can, because this isn't about me, this is about something much bigger than me, so either gimme some good input or don't say anything.

Even your Lord Tom Brady agrees here
 
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thehadou

Bumbling towards greatness.
Expressing grievances on the forum is only going to go so far.

Ex: If you have a problem with the commentary, start working immediately to put the people you want in the booth next year. And this doesn't mean "Make a TYM poll about commentary and then hope someone sees it". Talk directly to Chris Ceglia, TheHadou, Mr. Wiz and the Cannons about who you'd like to see in that position and why.

Don't be passive aggressive. Go direct if you want to get results.
I actually don't have anything to do with EVO commentary selections. You'll want to petition Ceg about that.
 
EVO is great for the fgc. The MK scene just needs to be positive, optimistic, and try to keep growing your numbers.




I've always been really interested in how that came about. I've heard Schaeffer's stories, and Seth's and the Cannon's and all the old World Warrior to Daigo vs Valle in Alpha 3 stories, the rise of Third Strike (and seemingly, the current fgc), and the dark ages. But to go back to how it came about. I feel like it's this weird convergence of coincidences. Like, California being a huge media and entertainment and tech hub, California being closer to Asia(So a lot of times Socal and Norcal would get arcade games early, which was the case with Street Fighter), tech savvy kids in the Cannons, and a lot of the gaming magazines and gaming companies already existing in California. I don't say this to diminish the amazing work of the Cannons or everyone else involved over the years, but it feels like right place right time, location, location, location.

Mortal Kombat, on the other hand, though a huge phenomenon in its heyday, and originating in its own huge media town(Chicago)--mortal Kombat, the Chicago players or east coast players, or even Midway themselves didn't seem too interested in crowing a world champion in mk, which is surprising since it would have been a huge hit. Remember--anyone who's old enough--remember how Blockbuster ran a national tournament? Shit, remember that there was once a store called "Blockbuster", which sold things called vhs tapes? haha. Also, Nintendo had their World Championships. The movie "The Wizard" gave many of us the idea that there could be a national video game tournament, but mk didn't have much of that. And I think one of the biggest reasons for why the "Capcom" scene stayed so dedicated to that company and style of games is because the basic mechanics stayed pretty much consistent for each iteration or offshoot of their catalog, while the same can't be said for Mortal Kombat.

The biggest gripe og's seem to have had with new Street Fighter games was speed. Schaeffer talked about how he loved Hyper Fighting, but then Capcom slowed the game down in Super, which people didn't like(some also hated super moves), and which was improved in ST, but the overall feel of the games stayed pretty consistent. Mortal Kombat is different. There were MK1 loyalists who hated MK2, and quit playing altogether. Haha, doesn't that seem absurd? The same was true with MK2 and 3, and 3 and Ultimate; and Ultimate and 4. Mortal Kombat's core is whatever it is in each new game. Now, MK became more consistent during the 3d transition, but the reality is that the developers weren't really focused on the game's technical depth--or considering how it might function as a serious competitive game (this is my opinion, which isn't meant to be a knock against the devs or players). Capcom, however, was thinking about serious competition from the beginning of SF2, and was still interested in the competitive aspect of Street Fighter, and kept improving SF3 until they reached ThirdStrike.

And, so it seems like this long chain of coincidences (tech savvy kids from a global entertainment and tech hub, close to Asia, playing a game which has had the same basic core for twenty years, and the internet allowing players from everywhere to communicate) allowed for EVO to be possible, and Street Fighter to be its main game.

As for what the MK community can do to try to help their scene(tournament+online) and game(s) grow, and to gain more clout at a tournament like EVO, I think you should market, market, market, to new players, and politely work with the devs to try to constantly improve the game. Don't attack each other online. Don't badmouth and complain. Always be competitive, and hype, but if you want MK to get big, you're going to need entry numbers to grow A LOT. The numbers have to be there for EVO to take notice, and NRS to push even harder than they already do for their tournament audience.
I back this post, especially the last paragraph. We shouldn't expect other scenes to do for us what we can't do for ourselves. If the community can manage its own "NRS" Cup of some sort that would represent a HUGE leap for the NRS scene (call it Midway Classics so we can get competitive NBA Jam in there, lol!)

I feel like this scene needs it's version of a Gootecks, a Haunts, a Spooky, a Mr. Wizard, a central authority, for example, who see the big picture and have the drive and determination to make the scene bigger and eventually a sport, like what happened to Street Fighter. I feel like @Mr Aquaman is the only one on this road and everyone else needs to be on this page.

Most just keep talking, "This game is dead" or "This game isn't coming back for a third year for Evo" , harmful threads like "Do we like this game?" and other self-defeating nonsense that's gotten so out of control that SRK ran an article describing how MKXL this year at Evo is the games "swan song" (i.e. It ain't coming back next time) after only a second year at Evo. Here's the link:

http://shoryuken.com/2016/07/13/a-violent-swansong-mortal-kombat-x-at-evo-2016/

This story showed prominently on the top banner for all to see during Evo that MK isn't coming back since it's "a bittersweet show on the world's biggest stage" and "signs point to this being a last hurrah for Mortal Kombat X at Evo" (the author's words, not mine) so don't bother to learn the game, the game is dead, nothing to see here, you won't be awake anyway for the finals since it's at 8am anyway, play Street Fighter, and maybe KOF.

Where did this idea come from? Any outsider, who happens to write for other sites ( like SRK and Eventhubs) can just read the front page of this site or watch some popular MK top player's streams to find community hatred towards its own game and write articles that basically say, "Yeah, this game isn't gonna be around for long, they hate their own game!" (The signs that point to the demise of MK at Evo for an article at SRK).

The question should be, "How do we get the scene bigger?", "How do we get more weeklies going?" "What needs to happen to get entry numbers higher".

The Smash scene can do it, so can we.

@CrimsonShadow Would you like to chime in on this? I'd like to hear your opinion, if you don't mind.
 

EdFig81

Original OBS mbr/VSM/G4S
Ok on page 8 now and have to say something more prior to my last post.
Esl guys seemed godlike but that only happens when wb cuts a check. So lbsh now:
Guys while i personally have my own opinions on evo this orignal post is on point butt, before anyone says shit about boycotting evo go to a dm and reach out to the guys in charge. Esl type tournaments happen due to wb and even grass roots do too. So guys before we all say fuck evo please those that went to evo reach out to the tos and talk to them and see what happens as u have nothing to lose. The first rule with organzing and yes i oragnize unions and do stuff for campains have an answer to the issue and reach out to those in charge.

With that said i did see many people supporting 1st to three and saw not one response from evo. That imo makes no fucking sense as evo to the hest of my knwoedlge didnt even fucking respond to those that requests. Anyway just my opinion as a stream monster
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
@PND_Ketchup @PND_Mustard would you guys care to share your side of the story on the whole commentating issue? I am a big @UltraDavid fan myself and didn't think the commentary was bad or anything but it just seemed strange that it wasn't you guys. Were you guys under the impression that you would be commentating top 8? That is more of my concern, more than the actual quality of commentary which I would enjoy either way.

Every other complaint made by Foxy, if true, is completely valid and I feel really bad for people who went. I enjoyed Evo a lot from a viewing perspective but that is honestly just based on the hype of the grand finals of mkx, Hungrybox's godlike run, and the SFV hype to cap it all off.

EDIT: Also since I tagged UltraDavid let me say that I appreciate him wanting to commentate MKX to the point of choosing it over SFV. He puts in a lot of work into his commentary (check out his videos where he does critiques of his own commentary!) and as a big name in the FGC his support of the NRS community is very beneficial to us. I hope he isn't too dismayed by the complaints here and continues to support us.
 

EdFig81

Original OBS mbr/VSM/G4S
Why should we elevate our esport status along with other fighting games using EVO's prestige? We should totally separate ourselves from FGC and that fake "world championship" thing and make our own tournament! Seriously fuck Vegas, who wants to go there lol? Let's have it at Philadelphia or something. Also let's keep it only NRS games so we have time to play first to sevens every match!

Every year EVO has hard time deciding what games they should include, apparently they can't fit every game in one weekend or something. Lame excuse, you really think their event could any run worse at this point? I say let's volunteer to drop out from EVO. They only like Japanese games anyway. That's why they have Smash there.

BTW yeah get rid of UltraDavid asap. That guys just thinks he can commentate whatever game he wants just because he "likes them" or is a "experienced, legit good commentator". I bet he never even played MK: Deception in a tournament.. Ban that jackass from our community. I think Aris has been commentating NRS games occasionally for what, five years now? He was cool until I heard him talk shit about our games on his podcast, so get rid of him too.
I want to support u and yes i agree with having community commentators but they had a chance to send what they can do as per prior post. In addition would u tell a wwe commentator "u have no fucking idea about the indies just stop and let tazz speak "? No u wouldnt the exposure that mkx got off both aris & ultra david at the end imo was positive. U dont believe me check kappa (on mobile and cant provide link) butt most actually enjoyed the top 8 for mkxl more because of them. That gives exposure. However i wish i didnt hear "sonicfox took his furry hat off (no offense i dont remember word for word) i never seen that before" yeah most nrs/skull girls fans have done seen that . smh that would of not been an issue with other people.

Also stop hatting on UltraDavid we could of gotten skisonic ;p



Edit: heres the link from kappa a site that imo hates all nrs gameshttps://m.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/4taoz2/yo_real_talk_mkx_top_8_was_actually_pretty_dam/

Or https://m.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/4taoz2/yo_real_talk_mkx_top_8_was_actually_pretty_dam/
 
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jamessmk

I am your god
Lol this is too funny, @BillStickers I'm sorry! @coolwhip I'm sorry . I am a bad person. So, why the sad faces, honestly seems to me, all this is because you were not catered to. But, your new so called leaders failed you not EVO! Lazy gamers think people read minds. You never open you mouth except for the 2/3 or 3/5 thing. That was it! You guys are spoiled at this point and humility is the best way, knock you off your high horses. ESL is good, but not a success story, and sorry to say "Chasing the cup" was abysmal when coming to view ship.. 770,000 viewed is a canceled show, pilot, or sport. Problem you guys are a side show, just like I was back in Mk 1 and 2. Nothing more..Good day... You get nothing... YOU LOSE
 
As someone who loves MKX please let me know where I can improve its balance across stream time for CB in the future. This year we scheduled 2 pool blocks, a character auction, and all of Top 32 for stream with MKX featured as the co-headliner on Sunday.
I really respect this and look forward to seeing how you handle the next one as I love watching the mk tourney streams. The last CB only got 1 pool for stream and ended really abruptly with everyone scratching there head like what happened.
But none the less I respect you for streaming it in the first place, props to you. :)
 

sars

Noob
maybe the early game on Sunday should play pools on Friday then get down to the top 64. Then mid day Saturday get down to top 8. Giving them that extra rest, or just get down to top 8 on Friday. I never been so I really don't know if this is a good idea.
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
Lol this is too funny, @BillStickers I'm sorry! @coolwhip I'm sorry . I am a bad person. So, why the sad faces, honestly seems to me, all this is because you were not catered to. But, your new so called leaders failed you not EVO! Lazy gamers think people read minds. You never open you mouth except for the 2/3 or 3/5 thing. That was it! You guys are spoiled at this point and humility is the best way, knock you off your high horses. ESL is good, but not a success story, and sorry to say "Chasing the cup" was abysmal when coming to view ship.. 770,000 viewed is a canceled show, pilot, or sport. Problem you guys are a side show, just like I was back in Mk 1 and 2. Nothing more..Good day... You get nothing... YOU LOSE
I feel like people are ignoring that the 2/3 thing had been announced for MONTHS before people actually noticed. IMO the community has to hold the L for not reading the rules in advance.

Also James +1 on the Willy Wonka reference lol
 

thehadou

Bumbling towards greatness.
I really respect this and look forward to seeing how you handle the next one as I love watching the mk tourney streams. The last CB only got 1 pool for stream and ended really abruptly with everyone scratching there head like what happened.
But none the less I respect you for streaming it in the first place, props to you. :)
CB had 4 hours of pools scheduled for stream. We were able to broadcast a bit over 3 hours of that (With coverage of matches from 4 pools). The main purpose of this was to prioritize the Top 32 broadcast (roughly an additional 7 hours of air time). CB did lose nearly 40 minutes of early broadcasted pools due to a power issue. Sorry to leave you scratching your head but we did post about the stream being down on event social media & in the chat to keep the viewership updated.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Because I believe Foxy is petty enough for bias to be base of his rational. Just my read on Foxy character tbh.
I don't buy into that idea, considering that's literally what those two came to EVO to do. Commentary. Even if it weren't them doing top 8, I'm surprised they didn't go with someone more intertwined with the community and game itself. UD and Aris do play NRS games, with UD having contributed quite a bit to the meta when vanilla MKX launched. But I wouldn't consider them intertwined, or rather as intertwined. Not a knock on them, just how I see it. And I'm sure that's how Foxy sees it, too, at least partially.

Maybe game knowledge is the sole determinant for you, but it's not for me. I consider a set of variables when it comes to determining what is good commentary or not, and based on my standards, I find Aris FAR more entertaining than K&M.
I think Aris is entertaining, too. But I also think K&M are entertaining for their own reasons, and considering the tournament at hand, find them a better fit simply because of the way they attempt to appeal to people who don't know the game. Knowledge plays a huge part in that, obviously.

You misunderstand, I brought up Aris's background in NRS games to defend him being apart of the NRS scene, not as an argument to say that his past achievements is the reason why he deserves to commentate over X and Y. Also, that entire point was in response to the way Foxy characterized Aris involvement/impact in the NRS scene.
Fair enough.

Next time, read what is actually said instead of baiting for likes.
Heh, just posting my thoughts on the matter. Don't really give a shit if it got likes or not, but whatever you say. >_>
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I feel like people are ignoring that the 2/3 thing had been announced for MONTHS before people actually noticed. IMO the community has to hold the L for not reading the rules in advance.

Also James +1 on the Willy Wonka reference lol
From what I understand, people were commenting back when the rules were announced, though.
 
I apologize if this has been mentioned before. I did not take the time to read through 13 pages of post so this is just in response to foxy's first post. Addressing why Evo is held in such high regard by not just MK but most Fighting games. The answer to that is simple, exposure. There currently is no better venue to gain exposure for your game. If you want to grow your scene Evo is the place to do it. The more intense and more hype the matches the better.

I dropped MKX early on because of the atrocious netcode and KI stole me away with it's superior netcode at the time. As such speaking from personal experience I don't really follow MKX outside of knowing that sonic is the dominating force in the scene. I did however watch a lot of MKX at this years Evo and knowing the game now has much better netcode I'm tempted to play it again. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

Now if you guys were to drop Evo in favor of another tournament there's a good chance that players like me would never see it. I suppose it comes down to whether or not you care enough about this kind of growth. I'll be the first to admit that I'm pretty worthless to your scene.

Finally I'll say MKX was not the only game that got the backburner Evo clearly was centered around SFV. But it's hard to fault the tourny for that when clearly SFV is the biggest game with the largest community participation.
 

champdee

Noob
SFV was the main focus.


Every single other game's community has shared similar complaints.

Pretty unnacceptable
yeah, and smash getting too big for both traditional fgc and smash is a problem for sure.
I wanted all pools streamed, its freaking evo, and I think it would of happened if espn/smash, etc.. fgc is at a crossroads atm..
 

champdee

Noob
He follows MK/NRS though to be fair, and plays online and actually likes the game. He should be very welcome as anyone should... we only had 707 entrants.. lets not shun ppl away..