What's new

Who needs to use top tier to place?

gam224

The world's least hype player
So this will be one of those threads by which players people dont like, need top tier characters, and players we do like, dont need top tier.

It's been a myth for some time that "its not the character, its the player" and it is bullshit. Do you think Sonic Fox was going to win Injustice at Evo2014 with Joker (despite him saying he knew all this tech with him).

The reality it is that sometimes, it IS about the character. Some characters are really braindead or really powerful or both, and you put that character in the hands of a great player, well of course they are going to succeed!

Kabal is interesting because he is top tier but not easy to use. I think there's a reason that only REO, CD Jr or PL were doing well with him. Pocket kabals were attrocious. But those three players were not winning majors with Sheeva or Kano and there is a reason for that being they never would have.

The debate is it the character or player is about 50:50 in my opinion. Character loyalists will find a way to make their character work, due to the dedication put into said character. You could argue that Forever King is a better player than Jeremiah, but in a Sheeva mirror, Jeremiah is more likely to win a ft5, being far more familiar with the character. If Forever King played Pig in a Kenshi mirror, Pig would likely win. If the matches were random fighter select, then Forever King will probably beat Pig in a ft5.

Sonic Fox is a freak of nature and finds a very powerful tool in a characters set and abuses it without mercy. Clearly Kitana has improved a great deal since the patch, because she was used in the Grand Final against Foxy. He didnt use Kitana cause he felt like it, he recognised that Erron Black was struggling with one of KL's variations, and switched to an option he felt was going to give him the strongest chance of winning against that particular variation of KL.
RS Kitana and outlaw EB complement each other pretty well honestly (EB has good mix ups which Kitana lacks and Kitana has the zoning EB doesn't)
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
Lol, Kitana not top tier after buffs? Get outta here man, She is safe on almost all of her strings now and she gets anywhere from 35% to 40% METERLESS damage off of a mistake that your opponent will no doubt make after you keep zoning which Kitana is the best at in this game.

She is top tier for sure but is SonicFox good? Yeah he is, nobody can argue that, he proved himself. Does he use top tier characters to win? Yes he does. But so do other players who don't do as well as he does.
Someone like jax can get comparable damage with better mix ups. The only other Kitana of note besides him is Kitana Prime who did much better in mk9
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
I mentioned Predator's mixups because you were talking about Kitana being mid tier because she has no mixups...

I think you should visit USFIV to understand what footsies are and to know that they really don't play a factor in MKX. With a run button and barely any anti-airs Footsies are just a dream that we MK players could only dream of, nobody plays footsies in MKX because everybody is just jumping in and getting in their combos and mix-ups, show me a MKX match at EVO where their were any footsies involved in winning. So that isn't a factor in making Kitana "Mid tier"

You can't get Combos off of Kitana's air fans?!?! WOT?! LMAO. I'm not even a Kitana main and I get all my combos from her Air fans. As for them being safe, don't throw them right next to your opponent and you won't get punished.

Kitana is Top Tier because she doesn't really struggle like Kenshi does or Takeda does. When all of her normals are slow or when she gets super unsafe moves or when she can't do anything without meter or when she can't wake up or open her opponent up, come talk to me about being mid tier.

Kitana is top tier, does she have bad match ups? Sure, but so does every other character in the game.
Ok you compared Kitana to takeda... everyone knows takeda suck, another thing is that in sf4 the game is VERY neutral based, in a game like that it's gotten to the point in the meta where spacing is key over all else. That's alot different than mkx, with it's run button and 50/50's everywhere it's difficult to play footsies and zoning. In a game like injustice or usf4 MKX kitana would be top tier but as it stands everyone only uses 1 variation and it feels like she is from a different game.
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
You're saying this but please help me understand. What is she missing. Don't even try and say mixups I've already gave you an example of a top tier character that doesn't have "mixups" But I feel like people don't even know what is a mixup in the first place. Overheads or lows 50/50s NOT mixups.

But please explain to me why exactly Kitana is mid tier? Or an upper mid tier?
Kitana currently has rewarding zoning when it comes to convertion off of air fans, while her footsies are good there are characters like jax and sonya with comparable zoning and better mix ups and footsies.
 
In the begging of the game he did main harley quinn and joker. Then he switched to batgirl. In mk9 he mained millena and had a pocket sonya.
Still wouldn't call him "known as the best Harley in injustice"
All respect to SF but both KP and saltface got better results with her.
Just sayin.
 

Schuyler

Noob
Someone like jax can get comparable damage with better mix ups. The only other Kitana of note besides him is Kitana Prime who did much better in mk9
Just pointing this out kitana isnt the best zoner. I would choose quan chi over her any day in the zoning department.
 
what that's like saying Jax is bad lmao. Tyrant is a beast with him but we havent seen him place lately, so your point is lame.

anyone with a brain could tell you mournful has better zoning than RS and every kitana player kinda agree with that. a projetcile that hits mid/OH and creates mixups > a duckable one.


that was a nice attempt you tried tho lol
Two words... Quan Chi. Much better damage, much better ground control and yet also has a nice mid/OH projectile plus a projectile that literally conditions his opponent in a spot which is most comfortable for the Quan Chi player. You can sit there and try to write whether you think you can to make it out that Kitana is top tier, the fact of the matter is she isn't and won't be. This is the wrong game for her as every kitana player agrees with her, 16 buffs or not. Reptile also had much better buffs to, does that make him top tier too?

I respect your clinginess to her, really I do, but you can't diss the one variation in which grants Kitana the most opportunities to do something and allows her to have more control. Royal Storm has much better spacing, much better ground/air control, much better conversions of a connected projectile and much better anti-pressure tools than Mournful.

Tyrant is good with Jax but has had little to no success of placing with him as of late because in this current meta game, people are becoming more aware of the things Jax is capable of doing. People are now adapting and as a result, the ones who were expected to place highly so early on, is not doing it for a reason. And why are we even talking about Jax?
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
This thread is dumb as all fuck.
Say y'all are competing for money. Wouldn't you pick the best tool for winning?
Get outta here with this shit.
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
I don't play Kitana but I don't think she's definite top tier like you people are making out

She's on the high end of the mid tier imo
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Two words... Quan Chi. Much better damage, much better ground control and yet also has a nice mid/OH projectile plus a projectile that literally conditions his opponent in a spot which is most comfortable for the Quan Chi player. You can sit there and try to write whether you think you can to make it out that Kitana is top tier, the fact of the matter is she isn't and won't be. This is the wrong game for her as every kitana player agrees with her, 16 buffs or not. Reptile also had much better buffs to, does that make him top tier too?

I respect your clinginess to her, really I do, but you can't diss the one variation in which grants Kitana the most opportunities to do something and allows her to have more control. Royal Storm has much better spacing, much better ground/air control, much better conversions of a connected projectile and much better anti-pressure tools than Mournful.

Tyrant is good with Jax but has had little to no success of placing with him as of late because in this current meta game, people are becoming more aware of the things Jax is capable of doing. People are now adapting and as a result, the ones who were expected to place highly so early on, is not doing it for a reason. And why are we even talking about Jax?
What does this have to do with anything I said lol

I didn't say anything about kit being top tier. I don't even think she's top 10.

I wasn't dissing RS at all. In fact, RS Kitana is my main lol.

I use both variants and there's no way you or anyone is gonna convince me that RS has better zoning than Mournful. I don't see it at all so let's just end the conversation
 

Tweedy

Noob
And to the people who say SonicFox. If you think Erron Black or Kitana is top tier then you are insane.

They are both top mid tier
But Pig said that if you think EB is not top 5 you're a moron.

Everyone is either insane or a moron. You cannot be both, period.
 

SS_RedShadow

I lost because of Player 1 advantage.
Kitana currently has rewarding zoning when it comes to convertion off of air fans, while her footsies are good there are characters like jax and sonya with comparable zoning and better mix ups and footsies.
I read all three of your posts that were replies to me and you seem to think top tier means you need to have EVERYTHING but that simply isn't true.

Predator Hunter can get 60% damage mid screen with two bars while other characters say like Erron Black can't get anywhere near that mid screen with even three bars yet he exceeds in other areas which make him top tier.

What Kitana loses in so called "Footsies" which barely exist in this game she makes up for in zoning because that's how she is supposed to be played, she is a zoner not a footsie type character like Ninjutsu Scorpion or a rushdown character like Jax.

Kitana is NOT mid tier she is top tier. Pre-patch she was bad, I agree. I played her Pre and post. Pre she was bottom easy after the patch she gained safe strings/Frame traps and really REALLY good wake-up. She is no longer bad, she is good. I'm not really here to argue because it seems that people don't really care for arguments they care more for down playing their character. My opinion is that Kitana is top tier, you think she is bad, good for you :).
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Sonic fox had a mean harley and lobo in injustice. He was known as the best harley in injustice. Kitana is not fucking top tier shes mid tier at best.
I think Kitanas top tier

Frame traps, good zoning, controls the air/midscreen, anti airs, massive damage and a 5050 off her xray to close out the final round.
She's good for similar reasons to tempest Lao, and there are golden rules for fighting both, you only lose to Tempest or Kitana if you mess up. Neither have a way to open you up.
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
I read all three of your posts that were replies to me and you seem to think top tier means you need to have EVERYTHING but that simply isn't true.

Predator Hunter can get 60% damage mid screen with two bars while other characters say like Erron Black can't get anywhere near that mid screen with even three bars yet he exceeds in other areas which make him top tier.

What Kitana loses in so called "Footsies" which barely exist in this game she makes up for in zoning because that's how she is supposed to be played, she is a zoner not a footsie type character like Ninjutsu Scorpion or a rushdown character like Jax.

Kitana is NOT mid tier she is top tier. Pre-patch she was bad, I agree. I played her Pre and post. Pre she was bottom easy after the patch she gained safe strings/Frame traps and really REALLY good wake-up. She is no longer bad, she is good. I'm not really here to argue because it seems that people don't really care for arguments they care more for down playing their character. My opinion is that Kitana is top tier, you think she is bad, good for you :).
I think she is an excellent pocket character (possibly the best in the game) but she just has way too many bad match ups and serious flaws to make her top tier IMO. You can't main her without playing another character that does have good mix ups. Out of curiosity what characters do you think are top tier? Some people have a larger top tier than others.