Yeah, 'cause ESL counts. And don't spread false information, he didn't get to top 8 at combo breaker. Enjoy your ride.He placed at ESL & Combo Breaker.........
Reo almost placed with Jason. DJT just got 2nd with Tremor. MIT placed with scorpion in MK9. Ironically most of the guys you named generally play top tier.Most of the Yomi House! Except players like King , Slayer , and Saltface. The Rest of them are just big Tier Whores.
I personally think every character in this game has something to make them special especially with three variations. Obviously we have low tier characters but I also feel some characters are getting unfair treatment such as Kitana and Tremor.I think she is an excellent pocket character (possibly the best in the game) but she just has way too many bad match ups and serious flaws to make her top tier IMO. You can't main her without playing another character that does have good mix ups. Out of curiosity what characters do you think are top tier? Some people have a larger top tier than others.
Don't edit what I saidI agree with you.
@xKhaoTikI think Kitanas top tier
Frame traps, good zoning, controls the air/midscreen, anti airs, massive damage and a 5050 off her xray to close out the final round.
She's good for similar reasons to tempest Lao, and there are golden rules for fighting both, you only lose to Tempest or Kitana if you mess up. Neither have a way to open you up.
I would say besides her (off the top of my head) quan ermac and sub. Quan's teleport while slow is still a threat against Kitana's heavy zoning game, ermac has a teleport and in MOS can trade projectiles for good damage. Sub isn't as bad as the other two but he can cover alot of space from full screen with his slide as long as it whiffs and doesn't get blocked. I feel like if mournful or asassin had better mix ups she would bet top tier but as it stands this is a weakness across all her variations. This bugs me most because i feel like asassin is built around being agressive which is pretty difficult seeing as she has only three strings which are plus and her overhead takes a good month to come out. RS isn't bad I would go so far as to say high mid tier but asassin just doesn't have the same potent tools. Her parry is just sorta meh not really impressive, sharpen is way to high risk for it's reward and asassin strike can't be used to anti zone because it only has armor on start up. Mournful is just garbage, nobody has place with mournful and it loses all of the air control that is Kitana's specialty along with her excellent damage. If she had a variation to cover her bad mix ups (like quan has warlock for hsi poor wake up) then she would liely be to tier, but as it stands this character is not solid enough to not have a pocket rushdown character like EB, Sonya, Jax etc. Even though quan easily has a worst variation (warlock) ketchup mad it to top 8 just with sorcerer quan. The only person to do notably with exclusively with Kitana is Kitana Prime.I personally think every character in this game has something to make them special especially with three variations. Obviously we have low tier characters but I also feel some characters are getting unfair treatment such as Kitana and Tremor.
I main Quan Chi, day one everybody said "Top tier" "Best character" "Broken character" Look in the forums now "Mid tier at best". For me I think Quan Chi is top tier simply because what he loses in wake-up he gains in damage/vortex/zoning.
My other mains are Takeda(Shirai Ryu) and Kung Lao(Buzzsaw). I play a bit of other characters especially for counter pick. I've recently picked up Unbreakable Subby. But to answer your question, I never stopped and thought about everybody who is top tier but if I had to think about it right now.
In no order:
Erron Black
Quan Chi
Predator
Kitana
Tanya
Cassie Cage
Sonya Blade
Jax
Kotal Kahn
D'vorah
Kung Lao
Kung Jin
Ermac
I'm sure I'm missing some also xD.
But I would like to know who are Kitana's bad match ups other than Kenshi? She can't be pressured and she can't be out zoned.
Then don't edit what I said if you don't like people to edit what you say. I obviously said that I don't main Kitana yet I know that she has combos off of her air fans. For example, I don't main Erron Black yet I know he is top tier. Don't take things I said out of context because it seems you don't like when people take what you say out of context.Don't edit what I said
Ermac is not really a bad match up for RS Kitana, you can counter the soul ball with the reflect just like you can counter the fans with the reflect with Kenshi.I would say besides her (off the top of my head) quan ermac and sub. Quan's teleport while slow is still a threat against Kitana's heavy zoning game, ermac has a teleport and in MOS can trade projectiles for good damage. Sub isn't as bad as the other two but he can cover alot of space from full screen with his slide as long as it whiffs and doesn't get blocked. I feel like if mournful or asassin had better mix ups she would bet top tier but as it stands this is a weakness across all her variations. This bugs me most because i feel like asassin is built around being agressive which is pretty difficult seeing as she has only three strings which are plus and her overhead takes a good month to come out. RS isn't bad I would go so far as to say high mid tier but asassin just doesn't have the same potent tools. Her parry is just sorta meh not really impressive, sharpen is way to high risk for it's reward and asassin strike can't be used to anti zone because it only has armor on start up. Mournful is just garbage, nobody has place with mournful and it loses all of the air control that is Kitana's specialty along with her excellent damage. If she had a variation to cover her bad mix ups (like quan has warlock for hsi poor wake up) then she would liely be to tier, but as it stands this character is not solid enough to not have a pocket rushdown character like EB, Sonya, Jax etc. Even though quan easily has a worst variation (warlock) ketchup mad it to top 8 just with sorcerer quan. The only person to do notably with exclusively with Kitana is Kitana Prime.
Then don't edit what I said if you don't like people to edit what you say. I obviously said that I don't main Kitana yet I know that she has combos off of her air fans. For example, I don't main Erron Black yet I know he is top tier. Don't take things I said out of context because it seems you don't like when people take what you say out of context.
I have not said a single thing about Kitana without checking her out and seeing her potential, just because I don't main a certain character doesn't mean I can't see that they are super good. By your logic Kabal was the WORST character in MK9 because I didn't main him myself.
Ermac is not really a bad match up for RS Kitana, you can counter the soul ball with the reflect just like you can counter the fans with the reflect with Kenshi.
As for the teleport, that's based on reads. You can easily see Ermac's TP coming and therefore you can punish with one of her big damage combos.
Sub match up is actually even, I've played against a good Kitana using unbreakable Subby and I was able to hold my own. As for Quan Chi, he can difficult to handle with Kitana but yet again that's all in theory the last time Kitana Prime played against one of the best Quan Chi's if not THE best summoner Quan Chi, Shujinkydink. Quan Chi lost so I believe it's also a pretty fair match up and against his teleport is easy to react to.
You gave me three fair match ups not three bad match ups for Kitana. A bad match up for example is something like Ferra/Torr or Kenshi against Grandmaster sub-zero because they can pass right through his clone with their projectiles which means they negate the whole variation all together or make it a lot less useful. That's a bad match up but what you gave me are three fair match ups. I understand that you think Kitana is mid at best because she doesn't have overhead and low 50/50s but that is the wrong way to look at it.
Day 1 everybody was taught that "MKX = 50/50s" or you are not going to be anywhere near top tier but I disagreed day 1 and I disagree today, overtime I was proven more and more right. Kung Lao, Kitana, Predator, Tanya. Are solid top tier characters who don't have a so called 50/50. But Mix-ups, ALL characters in MK have them and need them simply because Mix-ups are YOU not the character. Are you gonna run and throw or are are going to run and go for a string or or or OR are you going to run and block expecting me to for armour. You see? These are mix-ups and Kitana got them just like all other characters in the game, 50/50s are just added bonus, they are not required for you to be top tier.
It was YOU who said footsies don't really exist in MKX so YES is should think that 50/50's are a core mechanic and best mix up in the game. Further more all of the characters you mentioned have 50/50's. Predator has his throw setups which lead to about 30%, lao has an apparent 50/50 between his down 4 and his back 2. Tanya can run cancel her overhead for a 50/50. The only two pseudo 50/50's kitana has is float oh or grab, and after her 21 you can throw or go for pressure. The problem with her mixups is that 90% of the time people will just block and then get thrown and since throws are hard to follow up on because of the loss of stamina and other factors anybody with half a brain will take the throw, this just makes it very difficult for her to gain the life lead, her zoning is only good if you have the life lead.Then don't edit what I said if you don't like people to edit what you say. I obviously said that I don't main Kitana yet I know that she has combos off of her air fans. For example, I don't main Erron Black yet I know he is top tier. Don't take things I said out of context because it seems you don't like when people take what you say out of context.
I have not said a single thing about Kitana without checking her out and seeing her potential, just because I don't main a certain character doesn't mean I can't see that they are super good. By your logic Kabal was the WORST character in MK9 because I didn't main him myself.
Ermac is not really a bad match up for RS Kitana, you can counter the soul ball with the reflect just like you can counter the fans with the reflect with Kenshi.
As for the teleport, that's based on reads. You can easily see Ermac's TP coming and therefore you can punish with one of her big damage combos.
Sub match up is actually even, I've played against a good Kitana using unbreakable Subby and I was able to hold my own. As for Quan Chi, he can difficult to handle with Kitana but yet again that's all in theory the last time Kitana Prime played against one of the best Quan Chi's if not THE best summoner Quan Chi, Shujinkydink. Quan Chi lost so I believe it's also a pretty fair match up and against his teleport is easy to react to.
You gave me three fair match ups not three bad match ups for Kitana. A bad match up for example is something like Ferra/Torr or Kenshi against Grandmaster sub-zero because they can pass right through his clone with their projectiles which means they negate the whole variation all together or make it a lot less useful. That's a bad match up but what you gave me are three fair match ups. I understand that you think Kitana is mid at best because she doesn't have overhead and low 50/50s but that is the wrong way to look at it.
Day 1 everybody was taught that "MKX = 50/50s" or you are not going to be anywhere near top tier but I disagreed day 1 and I disagree today, overtime I was proven more and more right. Kung Lao, Kitana, Predator, Tanya. Are solid top tier characters who don't have a so called 50/50. But Mix-ups, ALL characters in MK have them and need them simply because Mix-ups are YOU not the character. Are you gonna run and throw or are are going to run and go for a string or or or OR are you going to run and block expecting me to for armour. You see? These are mix-ups and Kitana got them just like all other characters in the game, 50/50s are just added bonus, they are not required for you to be top tier.
No footsies does not mean 50/50s is what dominates. Characters I've mentioned don't have any real 50/50s outside of setups. We are not talking setups because if you are talking setups then Kitana has a 50/50s as well as you mentioned the float can be very tricky and lead into a mix-up. Not only that but Kitana does have an overhead and a low. Her overhead is very viable but people's problem with her overhead is that it doesn't lead into be damage not that you can block it on reaction.It was YOU who said footsies don't really exist in MKX so YES is should think that 50/50's are a core mechanic and best mix up in the game. Further more all of the characters you mentioned have 50/50's. Predator has his throw setups which lead to about 30%, lao has an apparent 50/50 between his down 4 and his back 2. Tanya can run cancel her overhead for a 50/50. The only two pseudo 50/50's kitana has is float oh or grab, and after her 21 you can throw or go for pressure. The problem with her mixups is that 90% of the time people will just block and then get thrown and since throws are hard to follow up on because of the loss of stamina and other factors anybody with half a brain will take the throw, this just makes it very difficult for her to gain the life lead, her zoning is only good if you have the life lead.
All the match ups i metioned were BAD not HORRIBLE, we are not talking ft vs kenshi we are talking match ups that are like 5.5-4.5 which is still bad just not atrocious like 7-3. yes kitana can reflect ermac's soul ball but ermac can on reaction teleport. I know the ermac match up i play him along with the majority of the cast and i have concluded that this is in ermac's favor for not only that reason.
Yes shujinky dink lost to KP but alex valle beat bonchan's sagat with hugo, still isn't a good match for hugo.
I still think that sub beats kitana because he get's in on full screen zoning without much risk. Is it unwinnable? no but is it bad? yes.
D4 is unreactable, b2 isn't tremor has good 50/50's because hsi throws lead into good damage, he is not a 50/50 character in hunter but in HQT he has the mix up in between his low shot and his oNo footsies does not mean 50/50s is what dominates. Characters I've mentioned don't have any real 50/50s outside of setups. We are not talking setups because if you are talking setups then Kitana has a 50/50s as well as you mentioned the float can be very tricky and lead into a mix-up. Not only that but Kitana does have an overhead and a low. Her overhead is very viable but people's problem with her overhead is that it doesn't lead into be damage not that you can block it on reaction.
If you really think D+4 is an actual 50/50 then you should consider Kitana a 50/50 character as well, considering the fact that she has overhead and low plus a throw which is in fact an actual mix-up. But it's not just throws that are considered mix-ups it's cancels and frame traps. Predator has only a low starter yet you say he is a 50/50 character, why? Lol. isn't that EXACTLY like Kitana? Even though Kitana does actually have an overhead and predator doesn't.
And we are not talking about setups if we are talking about setups then Kitana does also have an overhead low game when you use float and as your opponent is expecting an overhead you go for the really fast low. That's a 50/50 in a setup like Predator.
Even TOP players are starting to understand and say this game is way more than a 50/50 game. I agree day one the game was dominated by 50/50 characters and the whole idea of the game was 50/50 or lose but games develop and this game developed like any other game and now people understand there is more to it than just 50/50.
We are not getting anywhere though, so I'll just say my final words. This game has got a lot of depth and even though we've had it for a while, there are a lot of undiscovered characters/tech. I believe Kitana is top tier because she's got what she needs to compete against more than half the cast in this game and her real bad match ups can be counted on one of Goro's hands. If you believe she is low/mid tier then good for you.
Lao's d4 is unreactable and so is his overhead, predator has a 50/50 in hqt between 3 2 and 3 low plasma and in hunter he has the leap. She's a good character but not excellent. I wich you the best it was nice talking to you even if we don't agree.No footsies does not mean 50/50s is what dominates. Characters I've mentioned don't have any real 50/50s outside of setups. We are not talking setups because if you are talking setups then Kitana has a 50/50s as well as you mentioned the float can be very tricky and lead into a mix-up. Not only that but Kitana does have an overhead and a low. Her overhead is very viable but people's problem with her overhead is that it doesn't lead into be damage not that you can block it on reaction.
If you really think D+4 is an actual 50/50 then you should consider Kitana a 50/50 character as well, considering the fact that she has overhead and low plus a throw which is in fact an actual mix-up. But it's not just throws that are considered mix-ups it's cancels and frame traps. Predator has only a low starter yet you say he is a 50/50 character, why? Lol. isn't that EXACTLY like Kitana? Even though Kitana does actually have an overhead and predator doesn't.
And we are not talking about setups if we are talking about setups then Kitana does also have an overhead low game when you use float and as your opponent is expecting an overhead you go for the really fast low. That's a 50/50 in a setup like Predator.
Even TOP players are starting to understand and say this game is way more than a 50/50 game. I agree day one the game was dominated by 50/50 characters and the whole idea of the game was 50/50 or lose but games develop and this game developed like any other game and now people understand there is more to it than just 50/50.
We are not getting anywhere though, so I'll just say my final words. This game has got a lot of depth and even though we've had it for a while, there are a lot of undiscovered characters/tech. I believe Kitana is top tier because she's got what she needs to compete against more than half the cast in this game and her real bad match ups can be counted on one of Goro's hands. If you believe she is low/mid tier then good for you.
This in a nutshell.I would say besides her (off the top of my head) quan ermac and sub. Quan's teleport while slow is still a threat against Kitana's heavy zoning game, ermac has a teleport and in MOS can trade projectiles for good damage. Sub isn't as bad as the other two but he can cover alot of space from full screen with his slide as long as it whiffs and doesn't get blocked. I feel like if mournful or asassin had better mix ups she would bet top tier but as it stands this is a weakness across all her variations. This bugs me most because i feel like asassin is built around being agressive which is pretty difficult seeing as she has only three strings which are plus and her overhead takes a good month to come out. RS isn't bad I would go so far as to say high mid tier but asassin just doesn't have the same potent tools. Her parry is just sorta meh not really impressive, sharpen is way to high risk for it's reward and asassin strike can't be used to anti zone because it only has armor on start up. Mournful is just garbage, nobody has place with mournful and it loses all of the air control that is Kitana's specialty along with her excellent damage. If she had a variation to cover her bad mix ups (like quan has warlock for hsi poor wake up) then she would liely be to tier, but as it stands this character is not solid enough to not have a pocket rushdown character like EB, Sonya, Jax etc. Even though quan easily has a worst variation (warlock) ketchup mad it to top 8 just with sorcerer quan. The only person to do notably with exclusively with Kitana is Kitana Prime.
It's not even non-Kitana players, it's also Kitana mains saying which I think is a bunch of bull. That post I bolded and underlined is the PERFECT counter argument to ANYONE foolish enough to really think Kitana is anywhere near top tier. She has too many holes in her meta game to be successful in this one. I wish people like 16 bit and Kitana Prime all the best of luck using her, but the fact is unless she gets some more buffs, she isn't seeing top tier at all.As usual, all non-Kitana players say she's top tier. Very funny.
In the begging of injustice sonic used harly and they were calling him the best. Then he switched to batgirl.uhhh saltface was the best harley hands down and kitanaprime was prob second.
Is this a joke? Pokes and air normals??? WITH KITANA?Don't edit what I said
@xKhaoTik
You're overestimating her. Take a look at her frame data, and try to use her pokes + jump normals
Sub and quan MAYBE, but Ermac definitely doesn't beat her lolI would say besides her (off the top of my head) quan ermac and sub. Quan's teleport while slow is still a threat against Kitana's heavy zoning game, ermac has a teleport and in MOS can trade projectiles for good damage. Sub isn't as bad as the other two but he can cover alot of space from full screen with his slide as long as it whiffs and doesn't get blocked. I feel like if mournful or asassin had better mix ups she would bet top tier but as it stands this is a weakness across all her variations. This bugs me most because i feel like asassin is built around being agressive which is pretty difficult seeing as she has only three strings which are plus and her overhead takes a good month to come out. RS isn't bad I would go so far as to say high mid tier but asassin just doesn't have the same potent tools. Her parry is just sorta meh not really impressive, sharpen is way to high risk for it's reward and asassin strike can't be used to anti zone because it only has armor on start up. Mournful is just garbage, nobody has place with mournful and it loses all of the air control that is Kitana's specialty along with her excellent damage. If she had a variation to cover her bad mix ups (like quan has warlock for hsi poor wake up) then she would liely be to tier, but as it stands this character is not solid enough to not have a pocket rushdown character like EB, Sonya, Jax etc. Even though quan easily has a worst variation (warlock) ketchup mad it to top 8 just with sorcerer quan. The only person to do notably with exclusively with Kitana is Kitana Prime.
what frame trap? I can play kitana but im no expert on her. Anti airs don't make her top tier almost every characters have them. And tempest lao has good pressure . No one was saying that she was top tier before sonic fox used her. Johnny cage can frame trap in one of his variations has good zoning. Has an underrated anti air and can also have a 50/50 for his X ray. Is he top teir too ? How about liu kang or ermac ? there characters that aren't considered top tier that are better. Also just about anyone with an air teleport or air fireball "controls the air". I stuff tanyas and shinnocks teleports all the time with cassies air guns.I think Kitanas top tier
Frame traps, good zoning, controls the air/midscreen, anti airs, massive damage and a 5050 off her xray to close out the final round.
She's good for similar reasons to tempest Lao, and there are golden rules for fighting both, you only lose to Tempest or Kitana if you mess up. Neither have a way to open you up.
Ex DB2 as anti air, or air fans. 30% +what frame trap? I can play kitana but im no expert on her. Anti airs don't make her top tier almost every characters have them. And tempest lao has good pressure . No one was saying that she was top tier before sonic fox used her. Johnny cage can frame trap in one of his variations has good zoning. Has an underrated anti air and can also have a 50/50 for his X ray. Is he top teir too ? How about liu kang or ermac ? there characters that aren't considered top tier that are better. Also just about anyone with an air teleport or air fireball "controls the air". I stuff tanyas and shinnocks teleports all the time with cassies air guns.
Than what would you consider a bad match up?Is this a joke? Pokes and air normals??? WITH KITANA?
Sub and quan MAYBE, but Ermac definitely doesn't beat her lol
It's true they did call him that. But that was before I stepped into the picture with my Harley. Then I became the best with her.In the begging of injustice sonic used harly and they were calling him the best. Then he switched to batgirl.