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Question - Kano WHAT KIND OF CHANGES WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE TO KANO IN KP2

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
He's coming along faster than I thought. Almost like he has a natural affinity for playing a top tier on TYM. You forgot to mention all that in one string. You haven't even looked at her whole movelist.

Question for @Youphemism or any Kano player (that excludes you Saltshaker), Do you think Kano "fits" in MKx, well at least Commando? I'm sure you can make Kano work (I played him month 1-2 and he hasn't been nerfed to bad.) But Commando doesn't have Cyber's projectile game, nor CT's mixups. He has mixups and options but they're all reads and footsies. That shit is destined for mid tier but I feel it's worst in MKx.
Commando? It has its uses, but most of the time I'd pick Cybernetic or Cutthroat over it just because they give him better tools. You're thinking too much about the basics, you have to look at what makes Commando Commando which are the grabs and parries. He doesn't have many ticks so that's not really what I'm talking about but the parries give him near 20% unbreakable damage on a right read and against someone like Kung Lao whose best/most commonly used/combo starting moves are really only highs, mids or overheads you know you can just use the high parry 99% of the time making it a lot easier to get out of his pressure. I personally think Commando could end up being his best choice against certain pressure characters like Kung Lao but I'd need to explore those matchup with Commando more first though. I don't really play Commando as much. The closest thing to a Lao player we have here is my pocket Lao so I haven't had much of a chance to try it out lol.

Commando being mid tier might actually be slight upplaying at this point but we'll see.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
The closest thing to a Lao player we have here is my pocket Lao so I haven't had much of a chance to try it out lol.
Alright then, I see how it is. Just because I can't do 112124 every time, my Lao ain't good enough! Fine. It's fine.


 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Commando fucking sucks. Just play Sun God and call it a day.
Fucking sucks is only slight downplaying :DOGE But come on, him being safe on almost everything helps him set up his parry game. Kotal doesn't have that luxury on much of his moveset.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Fucking sucks is only slight downplaying :DOGE But come on, him being safe on almost everything helps him set up his parry game. Kotal doesn't have that luxury on much of his moveset.
Commando is a bottom 15 variation, Sun God is A+/A.

That is all.
 

NaCl man

Welcome to Akihabara
For real i said it before if ex buff had good chip it would be feared cause at the moment unless you get the mix up right it costs you life with no result. If it was like flame fist with good chip it would not matter about the DoT
 
I main Commando, and I'd like to see him get more use out of his command grabs. Let combos end in grabs, and more tick throw options. I don't care if they nerf the damage output of the grabs, it would just be nice to have a bit more mix ups. Also,they need to fix some of the hit detection with some of his moves. Many moves whiffing when they should connect, and then there is his choke which will grab and enemy from way too far away. Stuff like that irks me and I hope it will be addressed.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
I main Commando, and I'd like to see him get more use out of his command grabs. Let combos end in grabs, and more tick throw options. I don't care if they nerf the damage output of the grabs, it would just be nice to have a bit more mix ups. Also,they need to fix some of the hit detection with some of his moves. Many moves whiffing when they should connect, and then there is his choke which will grab and enemy from way too far away. Stuff like that irks me and I hope it will be addressed.
You can end combos, unless you mean grounded ones, which I think should happen for all grappler grabs. (Not to sure about characters like cassie and Erron Black.) Risking your opponent's max damage BnB for a grappler's 16-19% is dumb. Especially when you have to read that your opponent will be grounded, blocking if you went for a tick, AND THEN doesn't jump after the blocked normal. Oh and let's not forget your opponent can PRESS BUTTONS through your grab usually with great normals. MKx hates grapplers.
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Ok so I feel that the narrative of Kano's "godlike" footsies needs to be revised.

First of all it's only Cyber that has the really strong footsies. Commando doesn't have b2 so his furthest reaching normal is f4 which kinda low crushes, kinda doesn't? Like compare it to Jax's F3/4 and you'll feel like a kid who brought a fire cracker to a world war. It has further reach, ACTUALLY low crushes, he can tick off of it or gotcha grab (Wrestler) or run cancel (HW). F4 is nice and it's fine but when Commando has to get in he struggles.

Cutthroat has f2 which is nice but kinda slow. Loses b1, but gains db1 which is a decent footsie tool (insane reach, safe or safe-ish against most of the cast with correct spacing, plus frames on hit). None if this is really ground breaking though

Cyber has mid knives, f4, b2, b1, d4 for his footsies. These are all great tools. But he gets very little off them. F4 laser is a nice punish but if you mistime it you get full combo'd. Also it can whiff after f4 for whatever reason. B2 is VERY good in theory but kinda sucks in practice? It's ok but it's slow and has no priority. It's super safe though. Mid knives are awesome but doesn't scare anyone. LK can get his 10% fireballs which are better in FF and we have to chip away with not-so-pew-pew-mid knives. B1 is godlike. End of story. D4 is great.

But compared to the "real" footsie gods these tools kinda fall short. Kotals b1 is a 9f mid that reaches like 25% of the screen lol. The strings after it aren't as safe as Kano staggered b1 is hella safe. Shinnok has a 7f low combo starter, his d4 guarantees three hits of HS, f2 in imp/nec has crazy reach. JC d4 on hit means you're "stuck" in pressure.

Does this mean I think Kano's footsies are bad? No. But he is outranged by a lot of characters where range is crucial in this game. Also his hits lead to less damage/pressure/setups, his zoning is outdone by any character with a decent projectile (all variations of Kitana, Liu Kang, Quan Chi, BS Shin, HQT, etc). I just FEEL (mind you I'm not stating this is HOW IT IS) that we are (still) overrating his footsies slightly?
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Playing with Cybernetic he seems really solid at surface level, a combination of best backdash, godlike projectile, badass D4 and that amazing F4 makes him pretty sweet fundamentally, and his damage numbers might be low but they were fair. But is it just me or is converting off Laser, 112EX Ball cancel into JiP extremely inconsistent? Is it just a tight link, or does the timing/distance actually change?
 
I dropped Commando a couple of months ago, but the following would make me reconsider him:

-F4 follow up whiff issues fixed to be more consistent
-S2, Choke, knives, etc don't whiff on crouch blocking Scorp and company.
-F3 can be ticked into a grab and choke doesn't whiff after f33, making f33, f3-choke, f3-grab, f33-choke, f33 grab a viable mix up (grabs to only work on block, not as a combo ender).
-Similar changes made to b13
-Less scaling on meter burned wood chipper

Bonus buffs as a reward for being a good boy:

-11 +2 on block and no longer whiffs on crouch blockers
- b1 between 0 and +2 on block (because it's not a block infinite when you can 6f jab or armour out of it).
-Cyber's b2 and b23 into woodchipper


These are all personal preferences, and the last three just fantasies, but that's what it would take to bring me back.

Edit: Quick explanation as to my luxury buffs. I like the idea of Commando being scary up close, so giving him some plus frames to pressure the opponent will make getting in much more rewarding.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Make his up ball a DP with the knife where he clears both nostrils on his opponent when connected. EX version spits on them and kicks them away for added damage. All versions have armor.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Ok so I feel that the narrative of Kano's "godlike" footsies needs to be revised.

First of all it's only Cyber that has the really strong footsies. Commando doesn't have b2 so his furthest reaching normal is f4 which kinda low crushes, kinda doesn't? Like compare it to Jax's F3/4 and you'll feel like a kid who brought a fire cracker to a world war. It has further reach, ACTUALLY low crushes, he can tick off of it or gotcha grab (Wrestler) or run cancel (HW). F4 is nice and it's fine but when Commando has to get in he struggles.

Cutthroat has f2 which is nice but kinda slow. Loses b1, but gains db1 which is a decent footsie tool (insane reach, safe or safe-ish against most of the cast with correct spacing, plus frames on hit). None if this is really ground breaking though

Cyber has mid knives, f4, b2, b1, d4 for his footsies. These are all great tools. But he gets very little off them. F4 laser is a nice punish but if you mistime it you get full combo'd. Also it can whiff after f4 for whatever reason. B2 is VERY good in theory but kinda sucks in practice? It's ok but it's slow and has no priority. It's super safe though. Mid knives are awesome but doesn't scare anyone. LK can get his 10% fireballs which are better in FF and we have to chip away with not-so-pew-pew-mid knives. B1 is godlike. End of story. D4 is great.

But compared to the "real" footsie gods these tools kinda fall short. Kotals b1 is a 9f mid that reaches like 25% of the screen lol. The strings after it aren't as safe as Kano staggered b1 is hella safe. Shinnok has a 7f low combo starter, his d4 guarantees three hits of HS, f2 in imp/nec has crazy reach. JC d4 on hit means you're "stuck" in pressure.

Does this mean I think Kano's footsies are bad? No. But he is outranged by a lot of characters where range is crucial in this game. Also his hits lead to less damage/pressure/setups, his zoning is outdone by any character with a decent projectile (all variations of Kitana, Liu Kang, Quan Chi, BS Shin, HQT, etc). I just FEEL (mind you I'm not stating this is HOW IT IS) that we are (still) overrating his footsies slightly?
Godlike post. I'm stealing it.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Ok so I feel that the narrative of Kano's "godlike" footsies needs to be revised.

First of all it's only Cyber that has the really strong footsies. Commando doesn't have b2 so his furthest reaching normal is f4 which kinda low crushes, kinda doesn't? Like compare it to Jax's F3/4 and you'll feel like a kid who brought a fire cracker to a world war. It has further reach, ACTUALLY low crushes, he can tick off of it or gotcha grab (Wrestler) or run cancel (HW). F4 is nice and it's fine but when Commando has to get in he struggles.

Cutthroat has f2 which is nice but kinda slow. Loses b1, but gains db1 which is a decent footsie tool (insane reach, safe or safe-ish against most of the cast with correct spacing, plus frames on hit). None if this is really ground breaking though

Cyber has mid knives, f4, b2, b1, d4 for his footsies. These are all great tools. But he gets very little off them. F4 laser is a nice punish but if you mistime it you get full combo'd. Also it can whiff after f4 for whatever reason. B2 is VERY good in theory but kinda sucks in practice? It's ok but it's slow and has no priority. It's super safe though. Mid knives are awesome but doesn't scare anyone. LK can get his 10% fireballs which are better in FF and we have to chip away with not-so-pew-pew-mid knives. B1 is godlike. End of story. D4 is great.

But compared to the "real" footsie gods these tools kinda fall short. Kotals b1 is a 9f mid that reaches like 25% of the screen lol. The strings after it aren't as safe as Kano staggered b1 is hella safe. Shinnok has a 7f low combo starter, his d4 guarantees three hits of HS, f2 in imp/nec has crazy reach. JC d4 on hit means you're "stuck" in pressure.

Does this mean I think Kano's footsies are bad? No. But he is outranged by a lot of characters where range is crucial in this game. Also his hits lead to less damage/pressure/setups, his zoning is outdone by any character with a decent projectile (all variations of Kitana, Liu Kang, Quan Chi, BS Shin, HQT, etc). I just FEEL (mind you I'm not stating this is HOW IT IS) that we are (still) overrating his footsies slightly?
He has some of the best footsie tools in the game in every variation (not THE best but some of the best). He doesn't just have F4, D4 and B1 in just Cybernetic so I don't know why you didn't mention them in Commando and F4/D4 in Cutthroat.

F4 does low crush, it's just not instant. Commando also has B1 which is a great normal in footsies. Jax's F3/F4 have more whiff recovery than Kanos so I wouldn't just throw them out midscreen and as for range they're about the same. The problem with Kanos F4 is the fact the hit reaction causes certain specials to whiff after it meaning you won't get your combo but once they fix that it should be fine. Commando struggling to get in a bit more is just a variation thing, don't know if that's relevant to his footsies tbh.

You can't say Cybernetic's knives are a good footsie tool but say Cutthroat's F2 is slow. 12 frames is not slow. You lose B1, yeah, but get DB1 which has huge range although it is unsafe in certain situations against most so you wouldn't throw it out except in certain situations/against certain characters that can't punish it. Just because it's not "ground breaking" doesn't mean its footsies aren't as good.

If you think B2 sucks in practice I don't really think you're using it right. From max range you can use B2~DB1 as a pseudo-safe combo starter against most characters since the pushback makes it a lot harder for them to punish DB1 or against some it's just unpunishable. It has some of the best range of any normal in the game too. I don't think the priority thing is an issue because noone's going to hit you out of it on reaction. I agree that Cybernetic gets outzoned by some though and that's why I've been saying the main thing he needs is a damage buff and he'll be pretty much set.

You say B1 and D4 are great but even though Commando has them too his footsies aren't comparable? Doesn't make sense to me. Kotal's B1 is pretty much the same as Kanos, 25% of the screen is an overexaggeration. I'm glad you acknowledge that his followups are unsafe (unless you spend meter) because that is important when looking at a characters footsies. Kotal being so unsafe does make his footsies a lot riskier, if they were safer and had good range like someone like Jax then I would say Kotal is that much better but right now he's not that much better in footsies.

Kano is not outranged by a "lot" of characters, at worst only Cassie, Jax, Kotal, Johnny and possibly D'Vorah are comparable. His hits lead to less damage/pressure/setups?! Have you played Cutthroat? Lol. Maybe in the case of the other two variations but certainly not Cutthroat. Also Kitana is the only one in that list that doesn't outzone Kano, at least against Cybernetic. The rest of the list I agree with. At this point the only people who think his footsies are overrated are really people that either dropped him or are too busy trying to compare him to other characters to actually look at him as a character by himself and think that his footsie tools are maybe actually above average. I feel he's a little slower up close in general but his range is pretty good and he can handle himself in the neutral well. But in saying that I'm considered the upplayer of Kano to the Kanos and a downplayer of Kano to the other communities so god knows what's going on any more or who's right/wrong lmao.
 

bdizzle2700

gotta stay sharp!
He has some of the best footsie tools in the game in every variation (not THE best but some of the best). He doesn't just have F4, D4 and B1 in just Cybernetic so I don't know why you didn't mention them in Commando and F4/D4 in Cutthroat.

F4 does low crush, it's just not instant. Commando also has B1 which is a great normal in footsies. Jax's F3/F4 have more whiff recovery than Kanos so I wouldn't just throw them out midscreen and as for range they're about the same. The problem with Kanos F4 is the fact the hit reaction causes certain specials to whiff after it meaning you won't get your combo but once they fix that it should be fine. Commando struggling to get in a bit more is just a variation thing, don't know if that's relevant to his footsies tbh.

You can't say Cybernetic's knives are a good footsie tool but say Cutthroat's F2 is slow. 12 frames is not slow. You lose B1, yeah, but get DB1 which has huge range although it is unsafe in certain situations against most so you wouldn't throw it out except in certain situations/against certain characters that can't punish it. Just because it's not "ground breaking" doesn't mean its footsies aren't as good.

If you think B2 sucks in practice I don't really think you're using it right. From max range you can use B2~DB1 as a pseudo-safe combo starter against most characters since the pushback makes it a lot harder for them to punish DB1 or against some it's just unpunishable. It has some of the best range of any normal in the game too. I don't think the priority thing is an issue because noone's going to hit you out of it on reaction. I agree that Cybernetic gets outzoned by some though and that's why I've been saying the main thing he needs is a damage buff and he'll be pretty much set.

You say B1 and D4 are great but even though Commando has them too his footsies aren't comparable? Doesn't make sense to me. Kotal's B1 is pretty much the same as Kanos, 25% of the screen is an overexaggeration. I'm glad you acknowledge that his followups are unsafe (unless you spend meter) because that is important when looking at a characters footsies. Kotal being so unsafe does make his footsies a lot riskier, if they were safer and had good range like someone like Jax then I would say Kotal is that much better but right now he's not that much better in footsies.

Kano is not outranged by a "lot" of characters, at worst only Cassie, Jax, Kotal, Johnny and possibly D'Vorah are comparable. His hits lead to less damage/pressure/setups?! Have you played Cutthroat? Lol. Maybe in the case of the other two variations but certainly not Cutthroat. Also Kitana is the only one in that list that doesn't outzone Kano, at least against Cybernetic. The rest of the list I agree with. At this point the only people who think his footsies are overrated are really people that either dropped him or are too busy trying to compare him to other characters to actually look at him as a character by himself and think that his footsie tools are maybe actually above average. I feel he's a little slower up close in general but his range is pretty good and he can handle himself in the neutral well. But in saying that I'm considered the upplayer of Kano to the Kanos and a downplayer of Kano to the other communities so god knows what's going on any more or who's right/wrong lmao.
#foreverupplay
 

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
He has some of the best footsie tools in the game in every variation (not THE best but some of the best). He doesn't just have F4, D4 and B1 in just Cybernetic so I don't know why you didn't mention them in Commando and F4/D4 in Cutthroat.

F4 does low crush, it's just not instant. Commando also has B1 which is a great normal in footsies. Jax's F3/F4 have more whiff recovery than Kanos so I wouldn't just throw them out midscreen and as for range they're about the same. The problem with Kanos F4 is the fact the hit reaction causes certain specials to whiff after it meaning you won't get your combo but once they fix that it should be fine. Commando struggling to get in a bit more is just a variation thing, don't know if that's relevant to his footsies tbh.
Well he struggles to get in due to lack of advancing normals. F4 doesn't cut it when a lot of the cast can outrange you with ease. Several characters have better reaching normals

You can't say Cybernetic's knives are a good footsie tool but say Cutthroat's F2 is slow. 12 frames is not slow. You lose B1, yeah, but get DB1 which has huge range although it is unsafe in certain situations against most so you wouldn't throw it out except in certain situations/against certain characters that can't punish it. Just because it's not "ground breaking" doesn't mean its footsies aren't as good.
You can't really compare a projectile to a forward advancing normal though? At least IMO you can't. His footsies are fine, slightly above average, but not "godlike".

If you think B2 sucks in practice I don't really think you're using it right. From max range you can use B2~DB1 as a pseudo-safe combo starter against most characters since the pushback makes it a lot harder for them to punish DB1 or against some it's just unpunishable. It has some of the best range of any normal in the game too. I don't think the priority thing is an issue because noone's going to hit you out of it on reaction. I agree that Cybernetic gets outzoned by some though and that's why I've been saying the main thing he needs is a damage buff and he'll be pretty much set.
It's not about getting hit out on reaction, it's about getting hit out of it constantly for random pokes, strings, etc. B2 is good, but again, it's not a "godlike" tool.


You say B1 and D4 are great but even though Commando has them too his footsies aren't comparable? Doesn't make sense to me. Kotal's B1 is pretty much the same as Kanos, 25% of the screen is an overexaggeration. I'm glad you acknowledge that his followups are unsafe (unless you spend meter) because that is important when looking at a characters footsies. Kotal being so unsafe does make his footsies a lot riskier, if they were safer and had good range like someone like Jax then I would say Kotal is that much better but right now he's not that much better in footsies.
Thing is getting hit with Kotal's B1 will pew pew 50% of your life (SG) and it reaches further.

Kano is not outranged by a "lot" of characters, at worst only Cassie, Jax, Kotal, Johnny and possibly D'Vorah are comparable. His hits lead to less damage/pressure/setups?! Have you played Cutthroat? Lol. Maybe in the case of the other two variations but certainly not Cutthroat. Also Kitana is the only one in that list that doesn't outzone Kano, at least against Cybernetic. The rest of the list I agree with. At this point the only people who think his footsies are overrated are really people that either dropped him or are too busy trying to compare him to other characters to actually look at him as a character by himself and think that his footsie tools are maybe actually above average. I feel he's a little slower up close in general but his range is pretty good and he can handle himself in the neutral well. But in saying that I'm considered the upplayer of Kano to the Kanos and a downplayer of Kano to the other communities so god knows what's going on any more or who's right/wrong lmao.
I'd say he's outranged by a few more and it hurts him. But in the end I feel the flaw of Kano is that he's made to be played passively (at least outside of CT) but he has no solid way to get a life lead (unlike HQT for instance).

But to be fair I think you're reading my post wrong, I am just suggesting to rethink the narrative, not saying his footsies are bad. They're above average, just not godlike IMO.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Ok so I feel that the narrative of Kano's "godlike" footsies needs to be revised.

First of all it's only Cyber that has the really strong footsies. Commando doesn't have b2 so his furthest reaching normal is f4 which kinda low crushes, kinda doesn't? Like compare it to Jax's F3/4 and you'll feel like a kid who brought a fire cracker to a world war. It has further reach, ACTUALLY low crushes, he can tick off of it or gotcha grab (Wrestler) or run cancel (HW). F4 is nice and it's fine but when Commando has to get in he struggles.

Cutthroat has f2 which is nice but kinda slow. Loses b1, but gains db1 which is a decent footsie tool (insane reach, safe or safe-ish against most of the cast with correct spacing, plus frames on hit). None if this is really ground breaking though

Cyber has mid knives, f4, b2, b1, d4 for his footsies. These are all great tools. But he gets very little off them. F4 laser is a nice punish but if you mistime it you get full combo'd. Also it can whiff after f4 for whatever reason. B2 is VERY good in theory but kinda sucks in practice? It's ok but it's slow and has no priority. It's super safe though. Mid knives are awesome but doesn't scare anyone. LK can get his 10% fireballs which are better in FF and we have to chip away with not-so-pew-pew-mid knives. B1 is godlike. End of story. D4 is great.

But compared to the "real" footsie gods these tools kinda fall short. Kotals b1 is a 9f mid that reaches like 25% of the screen lol. The strings after it aren't as safe as Kano staggered b1 is hella safe. Shinnok has a 7f low combo starter, his d4 guarantees three hits of HS, f2 in imp/nec has crazy reach. JC d4 on hit means you're "stuck" in pressure.

Does this mean I think Kano's footsies are bad? No. But he is outranged by a lot of characters where range is crucial in this game. Also his hits lead to less damage/pressure/setups, his zoning is outdone by any character with a decent projectile (all variations of Kitana, Liu Kang, Quan Chi, BS Shin, HQT, etc). I just FEEL (mind you I'm not stating this is HOW IT IS) that we are (still) overrating his footsies slightly?
Exactly this.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Well he struggles to get in due to lack of advancing normals. F4 doesn't cut it when a lot of the cast can outrange you with ease. Several characters have better reaching normals
But how does he lack advancing normals? You talked about Cyber having B1, D2, B2 and F4 and that they were great but Commando has all of those except B2 so why is it suddenly that much worse?
You can't really compare a projectile to a forward advancing normal though? At least IMO you can't. His footsies are fine, slightly above average, but not "godlike".
But it's not about whether it's a normal or projectile, they're both 12 frames, advance by at least a decent amount and F2 is actually better because it's safe (against 99% of things) and leads to a full combo on hit. When there are less than 10 characters with arguably better footsies than him I wouldn't call that slightly above average. I'm not saying they're godlike but they are definitely above average.
It's not about getting hit out on reaction, it's about getting hit out of it constantly for random pokes, strings, etc. B2 is good, but again, it's not a "godlike" tool.
From the range you should be using it at the opponent won't be throwing out random moves, if you're getting hit out of it it's because you're using it in a situation you shouldn't be using it in the first place. It's a move for use at a range where 99% of normals will definitely not hit you.
Thing is getting hit with Kotal's B1 will pew pew 50% of your life (SG) and it reaches further.
As will getting hit with something of Cutthroats, never mind the fact Kano can actually do this safely unlike Kotal who has to use mostly unsafe stuff to get to that damage. And their B1s are about the same range, if Kotals even is further it won't be by so much it's worth arguing over.
I'd say he's outranged by a few more and it hurts him. But in the end I feel the flaw of Kano is that he's made to be played passively (at least outside of CT) but he has no solid way to get a life lead (unlike HQT for instance).

But to be fair I think you're reading my post wrong, I am just suggesting to rethink the narrative, not saying his footsies are bad. They're above average, just not godlike IMO.
Like who? You can't just make blanket statements and expect me to see what you mean. Kano is definitely a midscreen/footsies character and he does that well, or at least someone playing him should be able to understand how to take advantage of these tools well enough. No solid way to get a life lead is a pretty vague thing, could you elaborate? Cutthroat at least has safe 50/50s and jailing pressure (although not insane jailing pressure by any means) so I don't see why it'd be thought that he doesn't have a solid way to get a life lead, especially when the damage he gets from his 50/50s is about average if not slightly above average. Commando definitely needs to see improvement though and Cybernetic needs a damage buff on a few things but other than that I don't see where Kano would really struggle to open someone up, I mean he has some of the better stagger pressure since he's so safe.

Tbh the narrative, at least from the majority of the Kano community (and even the ex-Kano community) is that he sucks lol. As I said people might think me an upplayer but Kano's only been doing better as time's went on. Lately that I can remember Royale for one has made top 8s and Jupe just won a major with just Cutthroat and Cybernetic so I think the main problem holding Kano back is the people playing him that don't think he's good enough. If you don't think you're going to win with the character before the match has started you're already losing. Kano players just aren't seen much, more need to get out to tournaments :p
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
But how does he lack advancing normals? You talked about Cyber having B1, D2, B2 and F4 and that they were great but Commando has all of those except B2 so why is it suddenly that much worse?

But it's not about whether it's a normal or projectile, they're both 12 frames, advance by at least a decent amount and F2 is actually better because it's safe (against 99% of things) and leads to a full combo on hit. When there are less than 10 characters with arguably better footsies than him I wouldn't call that slightly above average. I'm not saying they're godlike but they are definitely above average.

From the range you should be using it at the opponent won't be throwing out random moves, if you're getting hit out of it it's because you're using it in a situation you shouldn't be using it in the first place. It's a move for use at a range where 99% of normals will definitely not hit you.

As will getting hit with something of Cutthroats, never mind the fact Kano can actually do this safely unlike Kotal who has to use mostly unsafe stuff to get to that damage. And their B1s are about the same range, if Kotals even is further it won't be by so much it's worth arguing over.

Like who? You can't just make blanket statements and expect me to see what you mean. Kano is definitely a midscreen/footsies character and he does that well, or at least someone playing him should be able to understand how to take advantage of these tools well enough. No solid way to get a life lead is a pretty vague thing, could you elaborate? Cutthroat at least has safe 50/50s and jailing pressure (although not insane jailing pressure by any means) so I don't see why it'd be thought that he doesn't have a solid way to get a life lead, especially when the damage he gets from his 50/50s is about average if not slightly above average. Commando definitely needs to see improvement though and Cybernetic needs a damage buff on a few things but other than that I don't see where Kano would really struggle to open someone up, I mean he has some of the better stagger pressure since he's so safe.

Tbh the narrative, at least from the majority of the Kano community (and even the ex-Kano community) is that he sucks lol. As I said people might think me an upplayer but Kano's only been doing better as time's went on. Lately that I can remember Royale for one has made top 8s and Jupe just won a major with just Cutthroat and Cybernetic so I think the main problem holding Kano back is the people playing him that don't think he's good enough. If you don't think you're going to win with the character before the match has started you're already losing. Kano players just aren't seen much, more need to get out to tournaments :p
Jupe? You mean Jupiter?

Didn't he use Jax at NEC?

What major was won only with Cutthroat and Cyber?