Question What is the general consensus on the patches? And what should be added/removed?

[EdenianWarrior]

This is awesome

 

[Deyrax]

Jeremiah himself requested the anti air grab buff so if you have a problem with that, argue with him, I just applied the buff as he requested, not to mention, Sheeva is hardly broken with these changes: other characters like Smoke (and keep in mind he no longer has the reset) are faster,smaller, and still capable of dealing heavy damage.
As for the 41% Xray, you DO realize that it's completely impossible to combo off it, not to mention, characters can simply jump over it and punish Sheeva?
It's not a slow Xray but it isn't super fast like Sub's. If anything, it brings it closer to Kano and Jax's Xrays, who both can't combo off it as well.
All work is subject to change, and this mod isn't even OUT. Wait until it comes out, and then we'll see if Sheeva needs some more adjustments.

Do you realize it's a ranged unblockable ? The reason why Jax and Kano have the most damaging X-rays in the game from playable chars is because it's a fucking grab which doesn't cover the whole screen, can be low profiled or simply be jumped over. But okay, let's add 41% to a move that is fast, covers the whole screen and can only be beaten by airborne moves.

 

[NSR]

Yes I do, but you fail to realize that the Xray CANNOT be added to a combo much like those characters. And do I have to repeat what I said earlier? THIS IS A WIP.
Xray can only be done once you have 3 bars, YOU CAN'T DO THIS ALL THE FUCKING TIME. THIS DOESN'T BREAK SHEEVA INSTANTLY. What I think you are trying to say is that it's overpowered, or overbuffed. In that case, I can see your reasoning, but jumping to conclusions like it automatically makes Sheeva broken, well, you are really jumping the gun on that one. There's only an 8% damage increase, the original dmg value was 33% and it was still quite damaging, but I didn't hear people complain about it being broken, if anything, a couple of people already suggested, in order to counteract the fact the Xray can't be used in a combo, to increase/buff it's damage. TBH, maybe the damage could be toned down, but it gives Sheeva something that can potentially turn the tables in a match. Do I even need to remind you that she's bottom tier? Even with the other adjustments I made, she could probably be Mid tier, AT BEST. We don't know yet.
Anyways, I have some bad news about Tsung: both hits of the Soul Steal use the same block requirements, that means I can't make only the 2nd hit unblockable, because it makes the whole attack unblockable, so, I have to leave it as it is.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Deyrax just take a breather for a bit bro, its not that serious.

NSR You're making Soul Steal unblockable? Reasons?

 

[Deyrax]

Yes I do, but you fail to realize that the Xray CANNOT be added to a combo much like those characters. .

Kano and Jax can't combo into their X-rays, what are you talking about ?

 

[NSR]

It was actually a suggestion by @THTB
on his list, specifically. That's something I also had in mind, but, sadly, can't do anything about that. I can't do anything about the Soul Steal damage bonus being retained at the end of a round, there doesn't seem to be a hash for it, if anything, there's a chance it's a bug (kinda like what happens in practice mode when you press select after morphing, you lose the damage bonus, yet you remain morphed).
In the end, I barely touched Tsung. His biggest buff really is F3 being faster and that's it. He got a very (and I mean very) slight buff with the Straight Skull and that's it.
@Deyrax
yes, that's what I said, Kano and Jax can't combo with their xrays. I was comparing Sheeva to them. I didn't say UNLIKE them, I said MUCH LIKE them, Sheeva can't combo into or from her Xray, much like Kano and Jax.
Sorry if my English isn't perfect, it isn't my native language, but I do my best to make myself clear.
You know, SHAOLIN is right, take a breather, you are really going too far over a simple buff over a move that can't be used all the time.

 

[NSR]

Anyways, here's some news about Sindel:
A single value controls her damage for Levitate fireball, both normal and low, the EX version of them (well she fires both of them at the same time), and Air Fireball normal and low, along with the EX version of them.
So, I buffed up that value by 2% and I got 10% damage on ALL of them.
I'm getting the impression, especially after seeing the added bytes and reorganized structures of KE Jax and Sub's tweakvars (most notably, Sub-Zero's) that NRS...didn't really have the foresight that each move should have had their own values. They probably were confident they wouldn't need to create new hashes for each move, data, etc, and admittedly, it was their first attempt at regularly patching a fighting game they made. Still, it does almost feel like it was rushed in development. Didn't they think they could potentially be wrong at some of the stuff they set? Then again, they were most likely under pressure by WB to make a good MK game that sold well. After all, the MK team was just coming off Midway's bankruptcy at the time.

 

[NSR]

okay, here are the latest changes:
Shang Tsung
Startup speed of Fire Skull (both versions) is slightly quicker.
Recovery frames of both versions of Fire Skull have been slightly reduced.
F3 is slightly faster.

Sindel
111's last hit's damage has been increased to 7% damage, full combo does 11% damage now.
11B2's last hit now does 7% damage. 11B2's combo does 11% now, while 11B24 does 16% now.
(The following are affected by damage scaling, thus, several of these last hits do more damage outside a combo.)
B12's last hit now does 7% damage. Full combo does 7% now.
F124's last hit now does 9% damage. Full combo does 16% now.
212's last hit now does 7% damage. Full combo does 13% now. (14% if last hit is held)
21B3's last hit now does 9% damage. Full combo does 15% now.
B24's last hit does 6% damage. Full combo does 10% now.
311's last hit does 11% damage. Full combo does 17% now.
31B2's last hit does 11% damage. Full combo does 17% now.
B3F2's last hit does 8% damage. Full combo does 14% now.
44U3's last hit does 11% damage. Full combo does 17% now.
Levitate fireballs and Air Fireballs (EX and non EX, low and normal) do 10% dmg now.
31B2 now allows a special move to be performed after it (In other words, it's special cancelable)
B3 is slightly faster.
Levitate's backdash is a bit quicker and more closely matches the forwarddash speed.

I know I have asked this already like a gazillion times, but is there any detailed info on what to do with Baraka and Cyber Sub? outside Cyber Sub's iceball startup and his ice bombs being wonky.

 

[THTB]

Deyrax just take a breather for a bit bro, its not that serious.

NSR You're making Soul Steal unblockable? Reasons?

Soul steal's second hit sometimes becomes blockable in certain situations, which makes it punishable on hit. Making the second hit unblockable gets rid of that completely.

BUUUUUT, since NRS coded things in such a messy manner, it can't be fixed.

 

[NSR]

I'm gonna go back on Tsung though, sometime later, I'm convinced it couldn't have been coded that poorly.
I may be wrong on this... I hope.
I really, really hope I'm wrong on this.

 

[THTB]

okay, here are the latest changes:
Shang Tsung
Startup speed of Fire Skull (both versions) is slightly quicker.
Recovery frames of both versions of Fire Skull have been slightly reduced.
F3 is slightly faster.

Sindel
111's last hit's damage has been increased to 7% damage, full combo does 11% damage now.
11B2's last hit now does 7% damage. 11B2's combo does 11% now, while 11B24 does 16% now.
(The following are affected by damage scaling, thus, several of these last hits do more damage outside a combo.)
B12's last hit now does 7% damage. Full combo does 7% now.
F124's last hit now does 9% damage. Full combo does 16% now.
212's last hit now does 7% damage. Full combo does 13% now. (14% if last hit is held)
21B3's last hit now does 9% damage. Full combo does 15% now.
B24's last hit does 6% damage. Full combo does 10% now.
311's last hit does 11% damage. Full combo does 17% now.
31B2's last hit does 11% damage. Full combo does 17% now.
B3F2's last hit does 8% damage. Full combo does 14% now.
44U3's last hit does 11% damage. Full combo does 17% now.
Levitate fireballs and Air Fireballs (EX and non EX, low and normal) do 10% dmg now.
31B2 now allows a special move to be performed after it (In other words, it's special cancelable)
B3 is slightly faster.
Levitate's backdash is a bit quicker and more closely matches the forwarddash speed.

I know I have asked this already like a gazillion times, but is there any detailed info on what to do with Baraka and Cyber Sub? outside Cyber Sub's iceball startup and his ice bombs being wonky.

For CSZ:
-Reduce recovery on EX divekick on hit if possible, so that it's actually advantage on hit
-Up normal divekick damage slightly

For Baraka:
-Extend second hit of 221+2 downward so that it doesn't whiff on crouching opponents
-Extend regular and EX blade slide hitboxes downward so that they don't whiff also
-Slightly reduce f44 recovery on hit so that he can reliably get a second f4 in a combo

 

[NSR]

thank you!
Btw, in what specific situations can the opponent block the 2nd hit of Soul Steal?
and by how much should the divekick damage by upped by? 2%?

 

[THTB]

thank you!
Btw, in what specific situations can the opponent block the 2nd hit of Soul Steal?
and by how much should the divekick damage by upped by? 2%?

2% works. 3% if you're daring... LOL

I forget exactly where soul steal whiffs, but from what I remember, it's usually at the end of combos.

 

[NSR]

I'll check Tsung again, just to be safe.

 

[zerosebaz]

2% works. 3% if you're daring... LOL

I forget exactly where soul steal whiffs, but from what I remember, it's usually at the end of combos.

I thought it was on wakeup, but im not 100% sure

Edit: also, could you make Sindel hairgrab a mid? Maybe she doesnt need it with the new buffs, but it would be awesome

 

[NSR]

yeah, but I would actually prefer to improve her EX hairgrab damage. it does far too little damage for an EX move. I mean, seriously, 2% increase? really? there isn't even a speed upgrade!

 

[zerosebaz]

That would be a great buff as well, EX hairgrab has got to be the most useless EX move in the game.

I would still like regular hairgrab to be a mid, but oh well, you can't have everything.

 

[EdenianWarrior]

I think Ex hair grab could have a speed upgrade in addition to the damage buff.

 

[THTB]

She really could use the hair whip hitbox buff, honestly.

 

[NSR]

eehh, there's a lack of decrypted hashes for Sindel's hair whip, frustratingly enough.
As for Tsung, nada. Both hits use the same block requirements. Sorry @THTB
Gonna see what I can do for Sindel, then I'm moving over to Baraka and Cyber Sub-Zero.
I would appreciate if anyone could tell me what Rain needs (outside of improving the EX lightning startup). I believe his pokes aren't that good, same deal with Scorpion, right?

 

[THTB]

eehh, there's a lack of decrypted hashes for Sindel's hair whip, frustratingly enough.
As for Tsung, nada. Both hits use the same block requirements. Sorry @THTB
Gonna see what I can do for Sindel, then I'm moving over to Baraka and Cyber Sub-Zero.
I would appreciate if anyone could tell me what Rain needs (outside of improving the EX lightning startup). I believe his pokes aren't that good, same deal with Scorpion, right?

Rain's pokes are fine, outside of d3 being -2, like Ermac's. The problem with Rain was being a defensive footsies character that had trouble with keepaway. If you can't fix the EX lightning not hitting fully even when hit, then it should be sped up by like 7 or 8 frames.

 

[SHAOLIN]

NSR. Is it too late ask for changes for Sub-Zero?

 

[Rude]

Should Cyber Sub and Rain have + on hit pokes?

Or a better dash/walk speed buff for Rain?

 

[Eddy Wang]

NSR, if Cyrax stilll has the B1 throw which when completed with the 121 command is +35 on hit giving him a guaranteed jump in punch to try again, if you could reduce to +12 to say the least would be nice, it wouldn't give him a guaranteed safe jump and wouldn't give him his old d4 that was +16 on hit, but would give him a good d4 advantage to start some pressure.


If you plan on tweaking Skarlet soon here are my suggestionds

Skarlet can dash into U3, but cannot dash into U34, she should be able to dash into U34 as well
F312, the two last hits should be overhead
F33 is currently fine, buffing F312 would add a good mixup with F33 to continue pressure if hits.
Her teleport startup should be 18 frames on ground, on block it should be -21
Invincibility frames of red dash should be increased to 12f which match the startup frames of red dash, so she can have a legit wakeup option
Increase damage of dagger toss to 4% on hit, currently does 1% and give it a slight advantage on hit.
Reduce the hold time restriction to dash cancel a dagger to 5f instead of current 10.
B24 gap in between hits needs to go
Last hit of B24 should be able to cancel into specials.


Reduce the armor duration to 15f, it currently lasts for 29 frames and she can extend to 45 with a very delayable down slash
F212,1+2 deals 8% chip damage in overall, reduce to 6% chip.

This last one is personal and you can ignore it if you disagree with it.
There was a glitch where Skarlet could cancel her slide with an up slash or down slash, i want you to give this back, but only applicable with ex dash, and give no cancel advantage in between a blocked slide and a downslash, the 18f gap is intentional to not be used as a mixup tool so ppl can blow up anyone atempting to use it to start combos with.

 

[NSR]

@SHAOLIN
What other changes you have in mind for Sub?
@Rude
Gonna think about buffing Rain's dash/walk speed.
@Eddy Wang
Isn't Skarlet A tier? I mean, don't get me wrong, there's a couple of buffs she needs, but isn't there a chance she might become too powerful? is there any nerf that should be applied to her? (I'm not a Skarlet main and barely played as her)