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What do you expect to see in MK9's evolution in 2-3 years?

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
You covered alot of what i was going to say in this post

Kitana's D1-Cutter doesn't work though, you either scout the D1 and punish it before Cutter even comes out or you dial in F41 and Block so if she does indeed interrupt you the cutter will be blocked and your back at advantage cause she has to respect your 8 frame low

The Jax kenshi MU is more about wiff punishes in zoning, and the corner positioning, But P1 does really play a big part up close as you mentioned
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Anyway, i don't think top 10 is that far out of the question wether you understand how Jax is played at the highest level or not. Me saying possibly only 4 Bad MUs is an optimistic view of how things can develop if Jax is perfected in years to come, and doesn't really have to tie in with my prediction. Jax MUs may not be easy, but he always has a option/counter for his weaknesses, I don't think one counter to something he doesn't even have to use makes a MU bad
You say he doesnt have to use it, but thats like saying Cage doesnt need F3, he can win with B3 and 11/21 series, doesnt mean that it wont cripple him though.
 

PPJ

()
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
jax rain and mileena will move up on the tier list
sektor will stay where he is in mid tier
skarlet will fail to live up to the hype
jade baraka kano and cyber sub will move up very slightly
sonya will move down a bit
kabal kenshi and cyrax will remain top 3
a few east asian players will pick up the game and blow us up forcing us to rethink how to play this game
 

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
More aggressive than that, lol. I never see Sub-Zero's highest damaging combos in tournaments cause of clone setups and meter management. Sometimes players even go for setups when a fullcombo would kill the opponent. You gotta take risks.
If you mean in the corner its mostly because the clone set-ups can lead to more than any of his full damage combos. But yes if the full combo will kill theres no reason to go for a clone setup I agree. As far as mid screen JiP b121 plus the chip damage from 212 clone or the throw does the same or more damage than any of his regular mid screen bnbs.
 

LEGEND

YES!
You say he doesnt have to use it, but thats like saying Cage doesnt need F3, he can win with B3 and 11/21 series, doesnt mean that it wont cripple him though.
what i'm trying to say is he doesn't have to use it but you have to respect it

Every time you are at neutral you will be looking for that 8 frame low or D1-GG, you have to respect those options

unlike cage Jax has great meter building at any point of the screen, Zoning and safe armor that deals heavy damage that you cant break
 

PND i2 Gaug3

NERF Everything, LEAVE Nothing
unlike cage Jax has great meter building at any point of the screen, Zoning and safe armor that deals heavy damage that you cant break
firstly what meter building?

second respect is only given when you have something to fear and jax is only fearsome in the corner

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Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
Neither option on the 50/50 is safe nor is it overly hard to block considering how big of a gap there is in the string when you go for the overhead, the only way to make 21212 truly safe is to cancel it into EX Teleport. If you're gonna go for a risk like that you might as well just go all in and spin.
you can fuzzy guard it? well nvm i don't think you guys get what im saying.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
More aggressive than that, lol. I never see Sub-Zero's highest damaging combos in tournaments cause of clone setups and meter management. Sometimes players even go for setups when a fullcombo would kill the opponent. You gotta take risks.
You have... 32% plus chip or throw isn't much different than the 36% or whatever it is he does from that NJP combo.
 

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
In 2-3 years I would have thought to see every character mastered and all of their tools/setups/option selects exploited. Today not every character has been exploited imo. We still need top tier players playing all the characters and having multiple top tier players using the same character. Having 1 person be claimed the best with their character that IMO has not be played at the highest level yet, is not good enough. PL with KL is what I mean. Unfortunately not many people like going against the odds and they like to tier whore and play for the win which is good I respect that but theres so much more that I feel should have been exploited. Hopefully in 2-3 years from now there will be a bigger community in terms of high tier players. Characters would get the representation that they should have. And finally, all of the dedicated players that play MK9 will level up significantly to the point where nobody is free and will show such great display of reads and footsies, it will change our MU charts replacing many of the 7-3's and 6-4's to 6-4's and 5-5's
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
I fish means bottom 10 character no, he will never stop being a fish.

If it means bottom 5 then yes, I personally think he is already out of that.
damn i was gonna say that baraka was gonna move up. He seems pretty legit if you have good reaction, when i play him i try to block charges and wiff punish spin, if you never give them those opportunities he can be pretty frightening. especially with that new corner vortex yeeesh..... i kinda hope it doesnt work good cuz that's kinda scary.
 

NKZero

Noob
In 2-3 years I would have thought to see every character mastered and all of their tools/setups/option selects exploited. Today not every character has been exploited imo. We still need top tier players playing all the characters and having multiple top tier players using the same character. Having 1 person be claimed the best with their character that IMO has not be played at the highest level yet, is not good enough. PL with KL is what I mean. Unfortunately not many people like going against the odds and they like to tier whore and play for the win which is good I respect that but theres so much more that I feel should have been exploited. Hopefully in 2-3 years from now there will be a bigger community in terms of high tier players. Characters would get the representation that they should have. And finally, all of the dedicated players that play MK9 will level up significantly to the point where nobody is free and will show such great display of reads and footsies, it will change our MU charts replacing many of the 7-3's and 6-4's to 6-4's and 5-5's
I agree with everything but MU numbers. Those shouldn't be determined by which player is better but more so based on the character tools. If Kabal-Cage is 7-3, it's 7-3 because of the tools, not because REO beats Dizzy for example. I think we can theory fight pretty well and that's pretty much what you need to determine MU numbers. However we will as you say have high level representation to truly flesh out some matches that we don't currently have answers to. The more everyone levels up, the more informative and on point the community becomes.
 

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
you can fuzzy guard it? well nvm i don't think you guys get what im saying.
Theres a gap in between the rapid jabs and the overhead, enough that you can armor threw it or atleast mentally confirm hes laos going for the overhead and block high. Yes 21212 is one of Kung Laos best meter building tools but theres also no completely safe way to end it except EX teleport which kind of negates the meter building part and the 50/50 is in no way shape or form hard to block.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
38% if he starts it with B12 and does the dash 1 before the B12 212 slide part, yeah its not really much of a difference at all.
I never use it, so I didn't know the exact damage... but if you do jip B12 freeze jip B121 and then throw, you're in the 40%s in damage. So really... it's not much different... in fact, the B121 is better b/c you get either more damage, chip for meter, or setups/shenanigans out of it.

Sorry to whoever said that, but Sub doesn't have the tools... maybe if ice blast start up wasn't ass or ex clone negated armor he'd jump up the list.

Or if the game was played entirely in the corner. lmao
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
damn i was gonna say that baraka was gonna move up. He seems pretty legit if you have good reaction, when i play him i try to block charges and wiff punish spin, if you never give them those opportunities he can be pretty frightening. especially with that new corner vortex yeeesh..... i kinda hope it doesnt work good cuz that's kinda scary.
You block Somecubanguy's reset low if that is what you are talking about.

His best tools are:
Footsies- Blade charge controls space, forces you not to whiff
Pokes- Good pokes for getting out of pressure
Corner Game- He is not a fish here, even I admit that

But they are severely outshadowed by his slow normals and low punish damage. He is a great defensive character, but the problem is he doesnt punish hard enough. Spin gets you out of almost everything but is such low damage you have no reason to fear it. Yes if you punish something with a full combo you can get damage and pressure, but that shouldn't happen at a truly high level. He also can do absolutely nothing if you have armor, because any pressure you want to do with him is worthless(Unless you F44 after 2,2 to catch people armoring, but it wont work forever).
 

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
I never use it, so I didn't know the exact damage... but if you do jip B12 freeze jip B121 and then throw, you're in the 40%s in damage. So really... it's not much different... in fact, the B121 is better b/c you get either more damage, chip for meter, or setups/shenanigans out of it.

Sorry to whoever said that, but Sub doesn't have the tools... maybe if ice blast start up wasn't ass or ex clone negated armor he'd jump up the list.

Or if the game was played entirely in the corner. lmao
Lol I only knew it because I was just messing around with it in training mode to make sure I was right.
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
You block Somecubanguy's reset low if that is what you are talking about.

His best tools are:
Footsies- Blade charge controls space, forces you not to whiff
Pokes- Good pokes for getting out of pressure
Corner Game- He is not a fish here, even I admit that

But they are severely outshadowed by his slow normals and low punish damage. He is a great defensive character, but the problem is he doesnt punish hard enough. Spin gets you out of almost everything but is such low damage you have no reason to fear it. Yes if you punish something with a full combo you can get damage and pressure, but that shouldn't happen at a truly high level. He also can do absolutely nothing if you have armor, because any pressure you want to do with him is worthless(Unless you F44 after 2,2 to catch people armoring, but it wont work forever).
yea dude fo sho, i used to think he was total crap and then i fought some good barakas who put the fear of god in me,
lbsh, baraka has a VERY intimidating presentation, you kinda have to work off the fears of the other player to own hard with him that's why i think he's cool.
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
Theres a gap in between the rapid jabs and the overhead, enough that you can armor threw it or atleast mentally confirm hes laos going for the overhead and block high. Yes 21212 is one of Kung Laos best meter building tools but theres also no completely safe way to end it except EX teleport which kind of negates the meter building part and the 50/50 is in no way shape or form hard to block.
i guess that's how i know i'll never be high level lol i can't react to it every single time.
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
Kung Lao takes the jump, and shoots it up with steroids though. He will never not be able to jump.
yea sometimes i "Troll jump" with him at full screen and when they jump i dk and if they shoot a projectile i iat and it pisses them off itz so lulz
 

EMPEROR_THEO

I only use characters with wakeup scoops.
Idk, He may only have 4 Bad MUs and 2 3-7s. Plus he can dominate alot of the cast and goes even with Kenshi and possibly Kabal

His midscreen damage is only low when grounded, but what he lacks in damage he makes up for in momentum and Armor. And now with the 1(2) wiff to GP or X-ray punishes, his Midscreen grounded damage is actually not bad at all vs some characters, JC and Sonya in particular
What is this 1(2) whiff to ground pound you speak of? :confused: Seriously though, I really need to level up my Jax.