General/Other - Grandmaster What character can do well against GM Sub-Zero?

[zoofs]

It's actually amazing how different Madzin and Tom Brady see Sub Zero compared to the rest of you guys, how don't you see how messed up Sub is?

Like I said, you don't even have to risk anything to get the opponent in the corner.

And no, Liu gets messed up by Sub, so does Jacqui.

I haven't been downplaying at all in this thread and I'm very aware that sub is good, just wanted to discuss the fact that he 100% does have bad mus and try to share why I think so.

Liu doesn't lose btw, its definitely 5-5 at worst.

 

[JDM]

Please I have been winning more for the past like 5 sets.
Fun fact: the only character he stands a chance with is HQT lol

do u got something u wana share with the class

 

[oaoo94]

I personally think Bone Shaper is 5-5 or Bone Shaper is slightly winning this MU.
Sub isn't taking Shinnok to the corner so easily. And Shinnok can control the neutral with his range and decent zoning.

But in the corner I'm getting molested. 100%

 

[EMPEROR_KNICKS]

aftershock is far worse than dvorah

Zoofs what do you think of the goro mu

 

[ragnar0kz28]

I know my stuff, she is my secondary character! If a Sub-Zero is doing meterless clone cancels out of every of his strings then he is not a good Sub-Zero at all, the only safe meterless cancels are F42~clone and B12~clone, if Jacqui does a reversal machinegun she will get full combo punished.

I actually play her while you are basing your arguments by watching a (most likely) bad Sub-Zero (or maybe he was good and didn't know the mu) losing to a Jacqui on a KOTH. So yeah....

He was not a bad sub zero as I said he played the same way Tom Brady does on stream, D4 into clone, ex clone got punished by a close up misile, it has super fast recovery, it could be even, she doest loose that matchup at all.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

He was not a bad sub zero as I said he played the same way Tom Brady does on stream, D4 into clone, ex clone got punished by a close up misile, it has super fast recovery, it could be even, she doest loose that matchup at all.

Ugh! I'm tired of talking to you... Keep theory fighting!

 

[ragnar0kz28]

Ugh! I'm tired of talking to you... Keep theory fighting!

What ever but if you dont know that matchup dont say she looses because she doesnt, it could be even at worst.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

What ever but if you dont know that matchup dont say she looses because she doesnt, it could be even at worst.

Lmfao ok, thanks for the advice <3

 

[Zoidberg747]

I've said since DAY 1 Sub zero is broke as shit. They nerfed him and made him tolerable but he's still stupid as fuck. In certain matchups he controls literally every aspect of the neutral game, in others he's still got amazing tools. No one shuts him down like Sub players say. NO ONE.

Dvorah really does though.

Like, I don't think anyone who has played that MU would say it isnt in Dvorah's favor. Its just that obvious.

I agree that Sub is a great character though.

 

[Tom Brady]

According to TYM, SZ is the ONLY character that loses no match ups, putting him on par with Kabal from MK9. Thank god its rare for me to come here these days

 

[RM Ree]

All the good ones have been mentioned. I feel like Scorpion does well here.

Hellfire Scorpion in particular does some cool things. Flame aura punishes a hasty offense after SZ has a clone out in the neutral. That punish, if successful, opens the meta for reversal hell fire and (air) teleport cancels. If he's throwing ice ball behind clone, ji3 over top of clone beats that clean. Not to mention the ex flameport punishes off f42 and b12 clone cancels. Hellfire also shuts down SZ's armor options with ex burner > pressure, forcing him to block Scorpions mix ups.

 

[SaltShaker]

According to TYM, SZ is the ONLY character that loses no match ups, putting him on par with Kabal from MK9. Thank god its rare for me to come here these days

Not just that, but you have multiple top players unrelated to each other saying it too. That Sub push is real out here.

 

[Doombawkz]

I wish F/T beat Sub-zero.
Maybe if the buffed charge to be safe when MB or something.
Otherwise its basically just pray he doesn't know how bad his j.1 bodies us

 

[God Confirm]

All the good ones have been mentioned. I feel like Scorpion does well here.

Hellfire Scorpion in particular does some cool things. Flame aura punishes a hasty offense after SZ has a clone out in the neutral. That punish, if successful, opens the meta for reversal hell fire and (air) teleport cancels. If he's throwing ice ball behind clone, ji3 over top of clone beats that clean. Not to mention the ex flameport punishes off f42 and b12 clone cancels. Hellfire also shuts down SZ's armor options with ex burner > pressure, forcing him to block Scorpions mix ups.

I play Scorp and he can do all right in the neutral but against a good sub in the corner he has no armour. I'm not just talking about B2 armor break, Sub gets a clone set up and a jump in into mix-up for free every wake up and if Scorp tries to armour he gets full combo punished

 

[God Confirm]

According to TYM, SZ is the ONLY character that loses no match ups, putting him on par with Kabal from MK9. Thank god its rare for me to come here these days

Do you agree with UK tier list placing of him? S tier, top 10?

 

[Tom Brady]

Do you agree with UK tier list placing of him? S tier, top 10?

Yes... he is absolutely S tier.

Some ask why doesnt SZ get the same results as other S tiers? I cant seem to break past top 9th/top 16 and Madzin plays a lot of blood god Kotal and also hasnt broken top 8 in the USA at a major yet. Why though? Why doesnt this character get the results? Why would a top player like Madzin use Kotal Kahn at least half the time when he is so good with an S tier character? Because SZ sucks online PERIOD. I mean sure, there are BS gimmicks that can make him a pain online like really safe slide, safe B2, etc.. But these things do not translate to offline so saying hes great based on what makes him great online is invalid.

Madzin plays mainly Kotal online because SZ sucks online. If you wish to play him solid and not use online gimmicks, SZ isnt that great online hence Madzin plays so much Kotal online and about half the time offline because its what he mainly practices now. Online I only play Cryomancer and just use Grand Master in practice mode. But practice mode isnt vs a real human so you arent really practicing the game, just set scenarios vs a dummy who doesnt fight back.

You just CANNOT take SZ as far as he can go by playing online. This is the WORST online NRS has done. MKX online is worse then MK9 and iGAU online. Its VERY hard to practice Grand Master properly by playing online.

 

[Big Pampering]

I've said since DAY 1 Sub zero is broke as shit. They nerfed him and made him tolerable but he's still stupid as fuck. In certain matchups he controls literally every aspect of the neutral game, in others he's still got amazing tools. No one shuts him down like Sub players say. NO ONE.

Lets not get carried away here

 

[M.D.]

Lets not get carried away here

I think i'm going to make that post my avatar.

 

[JDM]

Lets not get carried away here

Sub Zero was definitely broken day 1 homie

 

[GAV]

So, who is the perfect character to couple with GM Sub? Who beats D'Vorah, Tanya, HQT, Tremor, and Liu Kang?

 

[RagingRicans]

Please I have been winning more for the past like 5 sets.
Fun fact: the only character he stands a chance with is HQT lol

So, who is the perfect character to couple with GM Sub? Who beats D'Vorah, Tanya, HQT, Tremor, and Liu Kang?

I think Tremor is a good secondary for Sub-Zero or Lao

 

[God Confirm]

Sub Zeros counters (DVorah, Quan, Aftershock, even HQT if you insist he's a bad MU and refuse to learn it) all have really strong games of their own but start to crumble under pressure due to lack of good armor/shitty pokes or just losing a lot of options when you are up in their grill

This would suggest a high pressure character that doesn't lose the neutral to DVorahs reach. Seems like Ronin Takeda would be a really good choice. Also not too hard to learn as a secondary.

 

[Wigy]

I'm so glad everyone has realised how fucking braindead stupid and broken sub is, been saying this for a lonnnnnnng time

 

[God Confirm]

I'm so glad everyone has realised how fucking braindead stupid and broken sub is, been saying this for a lonnnnnnng time

Regardless of whether it's correct or not, you are aware that for the most part people aren't "realising" anything right? He was ranked highly with a similar justification in the latest tier list posted by top players, people are just doing what they always do and blindly agreeing with that. When the next YOMI tier list comes out in a few months, if they put Sub Zero in the bottom half of the cast everyone will be saying how overrated Sub is and how terrible this thread is and how well we've levelled up since this thread etc. People on here are sheep, nothing else to it

 

[Crusty]

Last I checked was War God Kotal Khan