General/Other - Grandmaster What character can do well against GM Sub-Zero?

[Mr.EditUndo]

Bad MU's no idea whatsoever.

My main gets completely rekt by him. The only character I use against him is HW jax and I think at most its a 5-5

 

[jboogie607]

I feel ninjutsu scorp does well against GM sub. I have not seen anyone mention him.

 

[Tom Brady]

SZ def loses to:
HQT Pred
Shaolin KJ
D'Vorah

Possibles:
Possibly Balanced Kenshi (very slight adv though)
Temp KL could also be slight adv KL.
Lasher Takeda could be slight adv Takeda. df1~special punishes B2 from any range regardless of clone out, and pinishes every clone cancel. df1 also pokes through from far range.


Im not sure about AS Tremor. I think the mu is more even the adv Tremor.

 

[Creepy00]

What about Kobu Jutsu Tanya? Is it really a 5-5 Mu in the highest level?

 

[llabslb]

What about Kobu Jutsu Tanya? Is it really a 5-5 Mu in the highest level?

I actually think Sub wins

 

[M.D.]

Sub is broken and zoofs is trash

Sub is broken but zoofs isn't trash since he uses a broken character to win

 

[JDM]

Sub players don't realize what the clone really does for them. I can never advance when it's on cooldown no matter the character I'm using. LOL @ Sub losing hard in neutral to anyone. He always has EX clone and regular clone and he has great normals. The fact that you have to advance in 5-6 matchups means he loses neutral? Get outta here. Just because Predator or D'vorah can stop a lot of his blockstrings doesn't mean he gets destroyed in neutral.

 

[Mr.EditUndo]

feel ninjutsu scorp does well against GM sub. I have not seen anyone mention him.

I don't think ninjutsu handles sub at all. zubs dont really jump and I guess the 6frame poke is good but sub is def favored.

also I dont know if they patched it where one of scorps coustumes f2 breaks iceclone and the rest don't. that glitch is weird

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

HQT Predator, Dvorah, Ferra Tor, Full Auto Jacqui, Kenshi.

Eeeehhhhhh kenshi is a little bit iffy IMO, it isn't a great my IMO but not horrible like most MUs kenshi has

 

[Vaiist]

Warlock Quan Chi. His f3 can really keep GM from setting up his game, and the armored low starter gives him something to work with up close. He has amazing zoning tools to make the klone a non issue and can pretty much do whatever he wants.

 

[Youphemism]

Not seeing anyone except Moxy bring up Cybernetic, does noone feel it's that bad a matchup for GM Sub? I personally think it's 5-5 at worst for Cyber.

 

[RagingRicans]

Sub players don't realize what the clone really does for them. I can never advance when it's on cooldown no matter the character I'm using. LOL @ Sub losing hard in neutral to anyone. He always has EX clone and regular clone and he has great normals. The fact that you have to advance in 5-6 matchups means he loses neutral? Get outta here. Just because Predator or D'vorah can stop a lot of his blockstrings doesn't mean he gets destroyed in neutral.

Don't mind him. He gets shitted on by me daily. Quit being a salty bugger.

 

[RagingRicans]

Not seeing anyone except Moxy bring up Cybernetic, does noone feel it's that bad a matchup for GM Sub? I personally think it's 5-5 at worst for Cyber.

I think it's terrible actually. Definitely disadvantaged at Kano

It's actually amazing how different Madzin and Tom Brady see Sub Zero compared to the rest of you guys, how don't you see how messed up Sub is?

Like I said, you don't even have to risk anything to get the opponent in the corner.

And no, Liu gets messed up by Sub, so does Jacqui.

I know how insane Sub-Zero is. He is without a doubt an amazing character.

This is about whether or not he has bad match ups.

You don't have to risk anything to get HQT in the corner? Hmmm

 

[Daemantalo]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I know what I must do now. After playing some offline sets with a friend who seriously knows Sub-Zero, although not as much as Ricans (Ricans bullied me like 7 games to 0 last time we played) I'm just going to pick up Ferra/Torr. The character is pretty interesting and does too damn well against clone imo. Tricky character.

However, who actually thinks Cyber is 5-5 with GM Sub-Zero. No doubt Youph is a better player than I am, but really? How? Does anyone have a video of a Cyber Kano going up against a GM Sub-Zero? Because I'm convinced this MU is like 4-6 for all variations of Kano... Anyone want to let me in on what I should do as a Cybernetic Kano besides backdashing a risky slide at midscreen and whiff punishing?

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

If matches are laggy I leave why would I play if the server is sucking anyways, Iv seen this in a King of the Hill full of killers there was a very good Sub Zero Lamemaster he had over 12 streak and played Tom Brady style, then a guy called Steve Edward or something like that used Full Auto on him and even in the corner he managed to do good using up rockets and machinegun to get rid of the clone, test stuff out first man.

I know my stuff, she is my secondary character! If a Sub-Zero is doing meterless clone cancels out of every of his strings then he is not a good Sub-Zero at all, the only safe meterless cancels are F42~clone and B12~clone, if Jacqui does a reversal machinegun she will get full combo punished.

I actually play her while you are basing your arguments by watching a (most likely) bad Sub-Zero (or maybe he was good and didn't know the mu) losing to a Jacqui on a KOTH. So yeah....

 

[RagingRicans]

I know my stuff, she is my secondary character! If a Sub-Zero is doing meterless clone cancels out of every of his strings then he is not a good Sub-Zero at all, the only safe meterless cancels are F42~clone and B12~clone, if Jacqui does a reversal machinegun she will get full combo punished.

I actually play her while you are basing your arguments by watching a (most likely) bad Sub-Zero (or maybe he was good and didn't know the mu) losing to a Jacqui on a KOTH. So yeah....

B12 or F42 are not safe clone cancels.F4 is the only safe String to cancel from.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

B12 or F42 are not safe clone cancels.F4 is the only safe String to cancel from.

I meant against machine gun reversal. My bad.

 

[SaltShaker]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I know what I must do now. After playing some offline sets with a friend who seriously knows Sub-Zero, although not as much as Ricans (Ricans bullied me like 7 games to 0 last time we played) I'm just going to pick up Ferra/Torr. The character is pretty interesting and does too damn well against clone imo. Tricky character.

However, who actually thinks Cyber is 5-5 with GM Sub-Zero. No doubt Youph is a better player than I am, but really? How? Does anyone have a video of a Cyber Kano going up against a GM Sub-Zero? Because I'm convinced this MU is like 4-6 for all variations of Kano... Anyone want to let me in on what I should do as a Cybernetic Kano besides backdashing a risky slide at midscreen and whiff punishing?

I do from some matches at Defend The North if someone can walk me through how to post it from cell phone to here. I can post in the Kano video thread. I'm not tech smart lol.

 

[Youphemism]

I think it's terrible actually. Definitely disadvantaged at Kano

Thanks everyone for the comments. I know what I must do now. After playing some offline sets with a friend who seriously knows Sub-Zero, although not as much as Ricans (Ricans bullied me like 7 games to 0 last time we played) I'm just going to pick up Ferra/Torr. The character is pretty interesting and does too damn well against clone imo. Tricky character.

However, who actually thinks Cyber is 5-5 with GM Sub-Zero. No doubt Youph is a better player than I am, but really? How? Does anyone have a video of a Cyber Kano going up against a GM Sub-Zero? Because I'm convinced this MU is like 4-6 for all variations of Kano... Anyone want to let me in on what I should do as a Cybernetic Kano besides backdashing a risky slide at midscreen and whiff punishing?

You think it's bad for Kano? Why? Isn't the idea that characters that can stop Sub from using clone the way he wants tend to do well against him? That's pretty much what Cybernetic does. He never gets a good chance to get clone out and keep it out. This is one of the only matchups where ex knives are really important.

 

[SaltShaker]

You think it's bad for Kano? Why? Isn't the idea that characters that can stop Sub from using clone the way he wants tend to do well against him? That's pretty much what Cybernetic does. He never gets a good chance to get clone out and keep it out. This is one of the only matchups where ex knives are really important.

^^ With Youph on this one. I've got a boatload of exp in Cyber vs GM Sub, my most played MU, and I'd say this one is 5-5 at worst for Cyber.

 

[JDM]

Don't mind him. He gets shitted on by me daily. Quit being a salty bugger.

Don't try to fire shots pls I have a 10-0 recorded. Regardless of who wins more in our sets (its me btw) my statement is still true.

 

[RagingRicans]

Don't try to fire shots pls I have a 10-0 recorded. Regardless of who wins more in our sets (its me btw) my statement is still true.

Please I have been winning more for the past like 5 sets.
Fun fact: the only character he stands a chance with is HQT lol

 

[Lokheit]

Based on the first page and a half of this thread, some people seem to be really confused about the difference between having resources to work around the clone and being a true counterpick.

Some characters could be counterpicks if they were buffed in future patches but right now they're not better just because they can work around the clone (and not always, the corner says hi). I mean... Kenshi? For real?

It's true that Cryo is better than GM for certain rare match ups, but GM is still better than some of those bottom tiers that have been proposed.

He has many bad match ups but let's get realistic, OP wants advice to win.

 

[JDM]

It's actually amazing how different Madzin and Tom Brady see Sub Zero compared to the rest of you guys, how don't you see how messed up Sub is?

Like I said, you don't even have to risk anything to get the opponent in the corner.

And no, Liu gets messed up by Sub, so does Jacqui.

I've said since DAY 1 Sub zero is broke as shit. They nerfed him and made him tolerable but he's still stupid as fuck. In certain matchups he controls literally every aspect of the neutral game, in others he's still got amazing tools. No one shuts him down like Sub players say. NO ONE.

 

[M.D.]

So..it took you this much to realise this? I've been saying it since the launch videos