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UMK3's Kara and Glitch Jab's

fugee don When I say glitch jabs, I'm also referring to kara jabs. I'm sure Moe30w was using one or the other. I believe that high level play can exist without them, but the non glitch/kara jabber will always be at a disadvantage.
Very true. So players who hate playing the GJs need to make a decision to learn how to beat them or leave the game within the 1st 10 secs the GJ starts.

Theres a group of ppl I play who dont GJ that hate it and theres the other group that love it. Invite or join the ppl you enjoy playing the most and there shouldnt be any complaints.
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
Very true. So players who hate playing the GJs need to make a decision to learn how to beat them or leave the game within the 1st 10 secs the GJ starts.

Theres a group of ppl I play who dont GJ that hate it and theres the other group that love it. Invite or join the ppl you enjoy playing the most and there shouldnt be any complaints.
I hear you and I have the same thoughts on it, but I don't like backing-down from anyone. I don't like them, but I play anyone, anywhere, anytime, as long as the connection allows me free-enough movement to play at least my "B or B+game" ....playing your "A game" online is just impossible most of the time. I've already played almost all of the top players, so there isn't much that surprises me these days, but it's annoying when you play some of these people and I know I could be getting alot more wins and big launchers -> juggles off their mistakes, but they cover them up w/ GJ/KJ so what should be a 10-8,10-9 series ends up at 10-5,10-6 as a result. That's aggravating....especially when you can see clear as day your skill level is higher than the person you're losing to
 

MKK hanzo

Moderator
Wasn't the GJ used to punish Kabal Tornado Spin as Wakeup call?
This short but beautiful post resumes the DISASTER that Umk3 would be if you couldnt cancel jabs with block.

Imagine the FREEDOM Kabal spin, Ermac Tlk, Mileena Roll, ninjas slides and lots of other threats would be.

I just cant imagine me, trying to rush Kabal and stopping and blocking lol.

Cause you would not be able to rush him, not only in wake up, but standar run jabs.

Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk 2
 

MIKECALDWELL

Kombatant
This short but beautiful post resumes the DISASTER that Umk3 would be if you couldnt cancel jabs with block.

Imagine the FREEDOM Kabal spin, Ermac Tlk, Mileena Roll, ninjas slides and lots of other threats would be.

I just cant imagine me, trying to rush Kabal and stopping and blocking lol.

Cause you would not be able to rush him, not only in wake up, but standar run jabs.

Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk 2
So you think it's better to be able to basically rush down without hardly any risk? The real disaster is the fact that you can pretty much be free do whatever you want with minimal risk. Where's the fear factor?
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
So you think it's better to be able to basically rush down without hardly any risk? The real disaster is the fact that you can pretty much be free do whatever you want with minimal risk. Where's the fear factor?
That's EXACTLY what I'm talkin about. The game was made like that for a reason. You're SUPPOSED to learn to Run-block your way up to Kabal, TKS is SUPPOSED to catch people doing stupid mashing or off-guard, Mileena is useful on Jax, NW, and rushdown-based characters BECAUSE of her Roll. Slides (as useless as they are) is the only thing those characters have LEFT after you learn to shut them down.

All that stuff is for a REASON, dude...you're SUPPOSED to have to take a risk w/ it, that's the point behind it BEING punishable. If not, then none of those moves would have been MADE as highly punishable as they are.
 

MIKECALDWELL

Kombatant
Right, you can do the same thing in MK2 with Mileena's roll and people don't even kara jab it most of the time to beat it. It has FAR less priority in UMK3 too, you can knee starter it into full combo if they are trying to wakeup with it. The reason why the roll isn't as big of a threat is because it is super punishable. Ermac's tks is punishable with run-up jp starters with most of the cast on block too. The only real problem is Kabal and he could be banned if need be.
I'm not sure if you agree or not. lol. Mileena in MK2 has so many other chip damage possibilities that kara/glitch jabbing to bait out a roll isn't really the answer. These jabs have never really been an issue in MK2 like they are in UMK3.
 

MIKECALDWELL

Kombatant
Yeah that's what I'm saying. The option to kara jab Mileena's roll is available in MK2, and her roll even has more priority than in UMK3 but nobody really does it because it's not a good option. That's how little of a problem it would be in UMK3 if there were no blockjabs. Players would risk 40%+ damage across the entire cast and she can only get 20-30ish.
I see. Good point.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
You say that there's no fear factor when using GJ's. Despite that not being true, do you realize how the game would be if the ability to cancel a jab with block was removed? You'd be afraid to do anything, the entire time. It's not like MK2 where you move at -10 MPH. Even the walk speed is much faster than MK2. But even not taking that into account, there's a bunch of quick specials that would completely stop rushdown, and also do damage. It would be like having a SRK with less start-up and harder to block on reaction. It would turn the game into a turtling snooze fest and everyone would be afraid to go nuts and rushdown like you're supposed to in UMK3.

You guys just need to play MK2, LOL.
 

MIKECALDWELL

Kombatant
You say that there's no fear factor when using GJ's. Despite that not being true, do you realize how the game would be if the ability to cancel a jab with block was removed? You'd be afraid to do anything, the entire time. It's not like MK2 where you move at -10 MPH. Even the walk speed is much faster than MK2. But even not taking that into account, there's a bunch of quick specials that would completely stop rushdown, and also do damage. It would be like having a SRK with less start-up and harder to block on reaction. It would turn the game into a turtling snooze fest and everyone would be afraid to go nuts and rushdown like you're supposed to in UMK3.

You guys just need to play MK2, LOL.
You are entitled to your opinion. I like UMK3. I just have my issues with it, just like I do with MK2. That doesn't mean I'm gonna stop playin it. I'm not going to laugh at your opinion like you do to so many others. What you need to realize is that nobody is right or wrong here. Both sides have very legit points. The elitist attitude is a little over the top.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Like I said, do not derail this thread any more. If you have any issues unrelated to the topic, PM me or the one you have an issue with.
 

skateblind

Apprentice
Glitch jabbers at my level are so damn boring to play against, this is probably the main reason I am starting to despise them, maybe I will hate them less when I get better.

------

A kabal player or similar character cannot react quick enough when seeing a punch in a kara jab. Blocking or punching then blocking(not cancelling) would have the same bait effect, but what do you guys think? Am I wrong about that?

I understand that you guys will use any advantage you can, but the argument about not knowing what the developers intended is weak. If I knew some glitch or tactic that could win matches 90% of the time, would that be acceptable simply because the developers have not said anything about it? Now I am not saying that is what glitch jabs are, I am only explaining why that argument does not work. It is up to the individual to decide what they feel is acceptable and to a smaller degree, the community as a whole.

I feel that the punches in a glitch jab are not done deliberately to hit an opponent, instead it is done for the random chance it hits them and if it doesn't, then at least you can block almost anything in case your random punches miss. If your only goal is to win, then of course constantly attacking and blocking is better than just doing one or the other, or even just running up to someone without kara jabbing on the way. It is a kind of spam that has the advantage of not being very punishable, especially at high level play. Spamming is not an acceptable tactic, zoning is, but telling the difference between the two is tough and that is why we have this kind of thread.

We will never know what is right and wrong because there is no clear definition on this kind of matter, so at the end of the day it is up to the individual and the community as a WHOLE, not just the top players!
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
A kabal player or similar character cannot react quick enough when seeing a punch in a kara jab. Blocking or punching then blocking(not cancelling) would have the same bait effect, but what do you guys think? Am I wrong about that?
Yes, you're wrong. You cannot cancel HK's with block. And you get whiff punished pretty bad if you whiff a HK, at least against some characters. Just replace the HK with a jab. Sure, there's slightly less recovery, but it definitely won't have the same affect as a Kara Jab.

I understand that you guys will use any advantage you can, but the argument about not knowing what the developers intended is weak. If I knew some glitch or tactic that could win matches 90% of the time, would that be acceptable simply because the developers have not said anything about it? Now I am not saying that is what glitch jabs are, I am only explaining why that argument does not work. It is up to the individual to decide what they feel is acceptable and to a smaller degree, the community as a whole.
Every single game will inevitably have some aspect that the designer did not intend. It just isn't probable to get it 100% perfect and exactly as they "intended" it to be. Whether it's a bug, glitch or any interaction that wasn't purposely made to be specifically that way. If you're trying to win, should you exploit these things? Of course you do. It is not our burden to try and figure out how the designer wanted the game to played. Our only burden is to win with what we're given.

They're not bannable, thus, they're tournament legal. I don't get the argument anyways. They can't be banned, so why even argue in the first place? Either play the game or don't. You can pick and choose who you play against, sure. But when someone actually starts using everything at his disposal to win, you're a fool to discredit his efforts and say with any amount of objectivity that he's playing the game wrong. No, I'm sorry, you're playing the game wrong. Because you've constructed some arbitrary mental code of honor that everyone must obey to garner your respect. Well, have fun with that, and I'll have fun winning.

I feel that the punches in a glitch jab are not done deliberately to hit an opponent, instead it is done for the random chance it hits them and if it doesn't, then at least you can block almost anything in case your random punches miss. If your only goal is to win, then of course constantly attacking and blocking is better than just doing one or the other, or even just running up to someone without kara jabbing on the way. It is a kind of spam that has the advantage of not being very punishable, especially at high level play. Spamming is not an acceptable tactic, zoning is, but telling the difference between the two is tough and that is why we have this kind of thread.
Now I see the type of player you are. I mean, I haven't personally played you so I didn't know. You're one of the players who complains about "spam". In fact, you even say it's "not an acceptable tactic". I'm honestly trying not to mock you, but this is exactly the kind of attitude a scrub has. Not an acceptable tactic to whom exactly? If I can do one thing over and over, and you're not good enough to beat one move, regardless what that says about your skill, I'd be an idiot not to choose the easiest path to victory as possible.

Look, I used to have the same ideals as you. When I was a scrub. And I don't mean that as an insult. We all start as scrubs, it's human nature. I was one of the biggest scrubs, just ask people who were on UMK.com back in the day. One day Hanzo posted this, and it changed my perspective and improved my game more than I ever thought possible: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw

We will never know what is right and wrong because there is no clear definition on this kind of matter, so at the end of the day it is up to the individual and the community as a WHOLE, not just the top players!
It doesn't matter what is "right or wrong". If you think GJ's are "wrong", that's fine, that's your opinion. And to be clear, I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion. All I'm saying is, realize it is YOUR OPINION, and nothing more. If you don't agree with a tactic you can't beat, don't play against people who use them. That's a terrible way to go, but the only other option is to quit the game. It's your move, but know this, once you really start playing to win, using every possible thing at your disposal to win, not caring if what you're doing is "spam", "broken", "cheap", "not intended", "a glitch", etc that's when the scales will drop away from your eyes and you'll come to the realization, much like many of us have, and I want you to know you're not alone... and not to blame.
 

skateblind

Apprentice
You miss understood my question about kabal, no idea why you mentioned high kicks...

Do anything to win? Are cheating and hacks included in that philosophy? Where do you draw the line and why?

" Because you've constructed some arbitrary mental code of honor that everyone must obey to garner your respect."
When have I said someone must obey my personal preferences(not code of honour) to gain my respect? I haven't, so wtf are you talking about now?

"They can't be banned, so why even argue in the first place?" When did I say anything about banning it or anything to do with tournaments? I never did, so wtf are you talking about again? This was supposed to be a discussion about GJ and KJ in general, am I not allowed to discuss them?

BTW, I wasn't arguing for or against the designers intentions, I was merely stating that it was a pointless discussion to have because it is still up to the players to decide how to play the game.

Everything you say always concerns winning. Fine, I guess(?) your main goal is to win and an after effect is a bit of fun. I prefer to have fun first, it is the reason I play games, the reason I play MK and the thing that motivates me to try and win. Once I stop having fun, why would I want to play MK, win or lose? If something stops MK being fun for me, like someone spamming brainlessly or glitch jabbing brainlessly, then of course I will stop enjoying MK. Which is why I stated my opinion about GJ.

You quote sections of my post and then say something either unrelated to it or just plain confusing. I am going to leave this thread now, because clearly it was not created for discussion, but instead to fight with people who have differing opinions to your own. I might add I am not the first to be coming to this realisation as well.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
You miss understood my question about kabal, no idea why you mentioned high kicks...
No, I didn't. If you didn't get your point across that's your fault, not mine. And I was making a parallel between HK's and uncancelable Jabs. You can't cancel HK's, so just imagine that for Jabs.

Do anything to win? Are cheating and hacks included in that philosophy? Where do you draw the line and why?
Of course there's a line. Do anything that is tournament legal to win. I've clearly stated that more than once. Whether they should be tournament legal or not is irrelevant. If they're not banned in tournaments, and they maximize your chance of winning, it shouldn't even be a question. The person using these tactics isn't the people you should have a problem with. Hate the game, not the player.

" Because you've constructed some arbitrary mental code of honor that everyone must obey to garner your respect."
When have I said someone must obey my personal preferences(not code of honour) to gain my respect? I haven't, so wtf are you talking about now?
When you say things like "you're not playing the game as it was intended", or "this tactic is not legit and/or valid", you are saying the above. Obviously you aren't saying it word for word, but I'm sure you understand what implications are.

"They can't be banned, so why even argue in the first place?" When did I say anything about banning it or anything to do with tournaments? I never did, so wtf are you talking about again? This was supposed to be a discussion about GJ and KJ in general, am I not allowed to discuss them?
Look, I don't know if you're being purposely dense, so I won't address that. I never said you said anything. C'mon now, you're trying to split hairs that aren't even there. The argument is that the GJ's cannot be banned from tournaments. So, they're tournament legal. Therefore, it shouldn't be a problem and it isn't considered cheating to anyone but scrubs with mental barriers.

Everything you say always concerns winning. Fine, I guess(?) your main goal is to win and an after effect is a bit of fun. I prefer to have fun first, it is the reason I play games, the reason I play MK and the thing that motivates me to try and win. Once I stop having fun, why would I want to play MK, win or lose? If something stops MK being fun for me, like someone spamming brainlessly or glitch jabbing brainlessly, then of course I will stop enjoying MK. Which is why I stated my opinion about GJ.
No my friend, the ONLY goal is to win. And winning is fun, that's a fact no matter who you are or what you're playing. I want to improve as a player and a competitor. And doing whatever I can to win (that's tournament legal, aka not cheating "lol") is the only way to maximize my experience and truly test myself and my opponent. I'm not saying playing every casual match as a tournament match. Not at all. That would be stressful and you wouldn't be able to test everything and try new things. I'm saying that use everything you can to win and don't complain because someone is using one of those things.

You quote sections of my post and then say something either unrelated to it or just plain confusing. I am going to leave this thread now, because clearly it was not created for discussion, but instead to fight with people who have differing opinions to your own. I might add I am not the first to be coming to this realisation as well.
It is not unrelated. It is not my fault you can't comprehend what I'm saying. It is much easier to dismiss it and say it's unrelated, when it's clearly very related. This was created for discussion, what do you think we're doing? It seems you guys are surprised that when you respond, I respond to you. A discussion isn't just you saying whatever the hell you want and that's end of it. In fact, that's actually the OPPOSITE of what a discussion is. And this point is solidified by you saying you're going to leave the thread after you responded to me, but not waiting for my response. I am not fighting with anyone, you can have whatever opinion you want. I don't understand this guilt trip people try and play when they're losing in an argument. Am I supposed to feel bad you can't convey your points better than I can? Sorry, I guess I'm just not as compassionate as you hippies.

:)
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
Everything you say always concerns winning. Fine, I guess(?) your main goal is to win and an after effect is a bit of fun. I prefer to have fun first, it is the reason I play games, the reason I play MK and the thing that motivates me to try and win. Once I stop having fun, why would I want to play MK, win or lose? If something stops MK being fun for me, like someone spamming brainlessly or glitch jabbing brainlessly, then of course I will stop enjoying MK. Which is why I stated my opinion about GJ.
This is pretty accurate. I have to agree with this and again I think it's selfish that just because a small amount of people think GJ is legit they reserve the right to ruin everyone else's fun when playing the game. I'd rather lose to someone playing the game the right way then win by playing w/ glitches that weren't intended to exist.

No my friend, the ONLY goal is to win. And winning is fun, that's a fact no matter who you are or what you're playing. I want to improve as a player and a competitor.
..........Sorry, I guess I'm just not as compassionate as you hippies.
:)
You were doing really good until this point.....then you really let me down, man. I expect more from you. You claiming that to be a fact yet you know as well as I do that everyone values and measure fun in different ways. Stop responding w/ a post so quick to counter people and start trying to understand them instead. You might be making good points but when you post shit like that, no one is going tolisten to you because of the way it comes across. I know you and you're a good guy, but most of the rest of these guys don't, so you need to consider that when you post. I think you're showing too much feeling or something in your posts cuz it appears that you're getting beside yourself at times.

Again, and I quote I quote (sounds funny when we say it) "I'd rather lose to someone playing the game the right way then win by playing w/ glitches that weren't intended to exist."

There's a way to win and then there's a way to cheat your opponent. If punch-blocking is legit, than it must be legit to have a Youtube video on pause while playing UMK3 and every time someone scores a big launcher that leads to heavy damage, pressing play to make the game lag and cause your opponent to drop his combo must be fair too. Why not? It's playing to win and you're trying to win at any cost necessary, it's also "in the game" and you can do it if u want. There's no difference between that and GJ....they are both a form of cheating and are both unfair.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
You were doing really good until this point.....then you really let me down, man. I expect more from you. You claiming that to be a fact yet you know as well as I do that everyone values and measure fun in different ways. Stop responding w/ a post so quick to counter people and start trying to understand them instead. You might be making good points but when you post shit like that, no one is going tolisten to you because of the way it comes across. I know you and you're a good guy, but most of the rest of these guys don't, so you need to consider that when you post. I think you're showing too much feeling or something in your posts cuz it appears that you're getting beside yourself at times.
If you say winning isn't fun, you're lying to yourself. And I don't care if anyone listens to me. I speak facts and unbiased opinions, it's up to you whether you want to accept them or not.

There's a way to win and then there's a way to cheat your opponent. If punch-blocking is legit, than it must be legit to have a Youtube video on pause while playing UMK3 and every time someone scores a big launcher that leads to heavy damage, pressing play to make the game lag and cause your opponent to drop his combo must be fair too. Why not? It's playing to win and you're trying to win at any cost necessary, it's also "in the game" and you can do it if u want. There's no difference between that and GJ....they are both a form of cheating and are both unfair.
Seriously bro? I mean, usually I know you're either joking or trying to make a point, but this post is ridiculous. Comparing an in game mechanic that's tournament legal to intentionally lagging the match online? This isn't even worth responding to, but I honestly think you're just joking. Saying GJ's are cheating is the funniest shit I've ever heard in regards to a video game, that's some shit a scrub would say brah.
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
If you say winning isn't fun, you're lying to yourself. And I don't care if anyone listens to me. I speak facts and unbiased opinions, it's up to you whether you want to accept them or not.



Seriously bro? I mean, usually I know you're either joking or trying to make a point, but this post is ridiculous. Comparing an in game mechanic that's tournament legal to intentionally lagging the match online? This isn't even worth responding to, but I honestly think you're just joking. Saying GJ's are cheating is the funniest shit I've ever heard in regards to a video game, that's some shit a scrub would say brah.
Seriously Bro? Are you that stubborn you can't even realize not everyone shares your opinions?You're not stating facts....you're stating what YOU enjoy. If what you said was fact then it would be a physical impossibility for me to enjoy losing to a player who plays the game the way it was intended and NOT have fun using bullshit glitches to win. That's not fun to me, IMO <----see how that's an opinion, so there's no way your statement can be a fact.

And before you say " I only hate it cuz I can't use it and can't beat it", you're wrong again, cuz I CAN and DO beat it withOUT using it.....I AM good enough to win without it and I did yesterday against 2 different high-level players....1 offline, 1 online.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Seriously Bro? Are you that stubborn you can't even realize not everyone shares your opinions?You're not stating facts....you're stating what YOU enjoy. If what you said was fact then it would be a physical impossibility for me to enjoy losing to a player who plays the game the way it was intended and NOT have fun using bullshit glitches to win. That's not fun to me, IMO <----see how that's an opinion, so there's no way your statement can be a fact.

And before you say " I only hate it cuz I can't use it and can't beat it", you're wrong again, cuz I CAN and DO beat it withOUT using it.....I AM good enough to win without it and I did yesterday against 2 different high-level players....1 offline, 1 online.
Of course I realize not everyone shares my opinion, that's the whole point. If I were to dismiss everyone with a different opinion, that would be unfortunate, because there's a lot of varying opinions out there.

Now, you too are attempting to split hairs. The point that everyone enjoys winning is moot. Whether you agree or not, is irrelevant because that isn't the point. However, you're wrong when you say "If what you said was fact then it would be a physical impossibility for me to enjoy losing to a player...". Never did I say people can't enjoy losing. I said everyone likes winning. That's not saying everyone dislikes losing, whether it may seem that way or not. But again, this is a pointless discussion because it's not relevant.

Now, on to it not being "fun". As you said yourself, that's your opinion. You feel the GJ's are an unintended bullshit glitch, and you do not have fun when someone uses them to win. Interesting the way you phrased that. It makes it sound as if you're fine if someone uses them, as long as they don't win with them. Anyway, I find it fascinating that so many players seem to think if you use GJ's, you auto-win. Moreover, that they're so easy to use and abuse and difficult to beat and nullify. If that were actually the case, don't you think more than a handful of players would be using them to their potential. Would it not be more prevalent if it was so easy to win with? The irony here is that nearly everyone who complains about the GJ's, can't beat them consistently. I know you said that you can beat them and you can do them, but I simply do not believe you. I've never seen you do them, or even apply them where they're necessary. Maybe it is because of the mental code of honor you have, that the GJ's are a bullshit glitch and you play the way the game was supposed to be played. Which, anyone can use that argument and they could hold the same amount of credibility. In fact, I can say GJ's were intended and be more accurate than you saying they weren't intended. Case in point, they're in MK1, Mk2, MK3, UMK3, MKT and MK4! That's 6 different games they're in, and they can be in more that I'm not even aware of.

Like I said though, soon Arion or myself will make a video explaining the GJ's in full detail. How to use and abuse them, how to defeat them, and tips and tricks about them.
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
I said I DON'T use them but I CAN beat them as well as DO them. I don't know where you got your info in this post from, but you must have read my posts incorrectly.

The developers even said it was an accident and wasn't intended to exist, so NO, you're not more accurate in that statement that they should exist. Read more carefully, Bro....the stuff you just said wasn't even relevant to my post and it seems like you've just been making shit up....you're manipulating my words and it's aggravating
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Another one defeated. Anyone else want to step up and attempt to Kombat my infallible logic?? :coffee: