UMK3 Tier list discussion

[Shock]

Sektor is not that great. Quite frankly I still have yet to hear good reason on why Sektor > Classic Sub. CSZ>>>Sektor in head to head and IMO its easier for CSZ to have a better overall chance against everyone higher in the tier.

A good Sektor is a sight to behold. A Good C Sub is mostly relaunch combos.

 

[NobilityV3]

Sektor is not that great. Quite frankly I still have yet to hear good reason on why Sektor > Classic Sub. CSZ>>>Sektor in head to head and IMO its easier for CSZ to have a better overall chance against everyone higher in the tier.

A good Sektor is a sight to behold. A Good C Sub is mostly relaunch combos.

Can't say it any better.

Sketor > C-Sub. I hope that's what you meant :?

 

[Kaiba]

Even without his relaunch, Classic Sub can take out any Sektor. Ex. After the pop up, you can really throw off someone's expectations by doing deep JK, run in LP, Hop JK, Slide instead of a relauncher they'd expect.

Besides, I kinda though it was about winning, no style really needed oll:

 

[PROPHIT 666]

I know its all about winning thats why its a no-brainer,hands down- Sektor>C Sub. Really im contesting Liu and Jade over Sektor just because hes better at dealing with THE top tier characters.

 

[Pink Godzilla]

I think, with the suggestions from Pink Godzilla in the DS threads, that Cyrax has a potential infininte bomb setup with a far bomb and aaJK. Saying this is true, would this move him up on the list a bit? I've gotten the second far bomb to break and my opponent unable to jump out, so I think we're on to something here ^_^

While I agree on both sides of this discussion, on the point that DarXyd3 made, I play a more solid game when I am Cyrax or Sheeva than if I am someone like Kabal or Reptile because I know I don't have the easily abusable moves at my disposal. I think that if I was to fight DarXyd3 to ten using either Sheeva or Kabal I'd probably get more wins with Sheeva

I agree man, Cyrax I still say and always be a tad bit underrated personally...I mean, I actually don't mind playing against Good Kabal's like Hanzo's for example, the jab, jab, jab cancelled by block works like a gem on Kabal dashes hehe ol: I must admit dizgirl's tactic does pay off lol. 8)

Well, the only problem with Cyrax's bomb infinite is that it's very inconsistant in its effectiveness versus good players, especially with top tier. The window of time in which you can JK a player onto a bomb properly for the infinite is rather small, and good players will most of the time make their move too soon or too late for you to connect the JK right. The other problem is that, IMO, Cyrax's midfield game is very weak compared to the rest of the characters. He has a distinct lack of any real offensive move, and he's generally at a disadvantage when he's not near a corner. Cyrax's spot seems about right to me.

 

[Shock]

I was pointing out that Sub is dependent on the relaunch infinite, which isn't doable on everyone. Sektor's tactics however are universal, and far more usable than a cowaring turtle Sub. Sektor is dangerous anywhere.

 

[Kaiba]

Yeah but Sub is not always defensive. Alot of players don't realize he has a rush game. Not much, but the threat is can be very costly in upwards of 40%+ depending on who your fighting. Once the LPs are ducked blocked from run jabs you can throw out ground freezes at random to mix it up and then do some damage. Besides isn't this tactic universal as well? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec8MDEelbz0

 

[PROPHIT 666]

Sektor wins.....FATALITY! :twisted:

 

[Kaiba]

Sektor wins.....FATALITY! :twisted:

Exactly, you can't prove your point oll:

 

[ButtManV3]

Yeah but Sub is not always defensive. Alot of players don't realize he has a rush game. Not much, but the threat is can be very costly in upwards of 40%+ depending on who your fighting. Once the LPs are ducked blocked from run jabs you can throw out ground freezes at random to mix it up and then do some damage. Besides isn't this tactic universal as well? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec8MDEelbz0

I agree with Kaiba here. Plus, Sektor needs to lean on his homing missles to actually connect then his combos can get better. C. Sub just rushes with run-jabs and ground Freezes.

 

[Pink Godzilla]

Now that I think about it, it could be argued that Cyrax should be above C. Sub. While C. Sub may have better offensive capabilities overall(though only slightly), as it's been said, he has very little gameplay options overall, which is IMO his greatest weakness. Cyrax, however, is quite the opposite. There's countless different setups, traps, and combos at his disposal.

 

[MKF30]

As much as I think Cyrax is way freaking underrated at times, in fact I KNOW damn well he is...he's not as good as U. Sub, but C. Sub honestly I think he's just as good as if not better...

Comparing Cyrax vs. the two Subs.


The only thing is the freeze, you see the freeze traded with a Net ALWAYS as I'm sure you know Pink unfortunately goes to the Sub player being that the freeze(in the older 2D games) out last all other stun moves...so that gives Sub the instant edge when it comes to "free hit stun moves" trade with Cyrax a bomb is a better bet as it'll push you away but still that freeze lasts a while sometimes seems like forever lol

But I do agree with you on the Cyrax having much better "set up traps" then C. Sub.... easily, I totally agree with you here and that's not changing. I think honestly unless you're an avid Cyrax player like you, myself and Konqrr you can't really understand what he's capable of when used correctly.

I mean I find myself as crazy as this sounds it's worked out bigtime for me, Cyrax being a great counter vs. Kabals..if you can jab cancel into block, bait a spin that's easy net into 42% right there or buffer bombs then nets....there's also been those occassional instances where I've nailed dashes with Nets hehe, that's just awesome lol.

Now I'm not saying to everyone pick Cyrax against Kabal's, only if you use him well I can't see him doing any worse off then some other characters in the game against Kabal.

 

[Pink Godzilla]

Well, U. Sub is certainly better than Cyrax, but C. Sub I'm not so sure. In that particular matchup, I'd say C. Sub definately has the advantage, because the freeze does last so long and Cyrax is easy to relaunch. Versus the entire cast, however, I'd say Cyrax has the advantage because C. Sub's options are so limited in comparison.

Cyrax vs. Kabal however is way in Kabal's favor if he's good. Good Kabals don't fall for the Kara jabs hardly ever, and they're difficult to handle because they're so fast. Since Cyrax's midfield game is so weak, he really has no choice but to head for a corner, which is rather difficult when Kabal can cross the screen in a split second.

 

[MKF30]

Well, U. Sub is certainly better than Cyrax, but C. Sub I'm not so sure. In that particular matchup, I'd say C. Sub definately has the advantage, because the freeze does last so long and Cyrax is easy to relaunch. Versus the entire cast, however, I'd say Cyrax has the advantage because C. Sub's options are so limited in comparison.

Cyrax vs. Kabal however is way in Kabal's favor if he's good. Good Kabals don't fall for the Kara jabs hardly ever, and they're difficult to handle because they're so fast. Since Cyrax's midfield game is so weak, he really has no choice but to head for a corner, which is rather difficult when Kabal can cross the screen in a split second.

Yeah, that's true too the relaunch is easy on all the robots I noticed lol I picked C.Sub once and had this guy that was R.Smoke after relaunching him 3 times, won me the match lol when I should have lost...then he picked Cyrax and I did it a few times on him also.

Yeah, I know in most cases he's no match for Kabal...but I'd say descent or average Kabals can still fall for Cyrax tricks, kara jabs or jab's cancelled by block just standing there punching...really advanced Kabal players won't fall for it but when I did play Hanzo on the DS few weeks back I did beat him a few times (some how) and got a few 50%+ combos on him, not by any means easy but I did manage. Afterwards he told me I had a very good Cyrax so I know I did something right lol.

C.Sub vs. Cyrax most likely has the edge over him due to the freeze vs. net edge and the easy relaunch on robots, but I do believe like you that Cyrax has better "set up opportunities" as long as you avoid the freeze, Cyrax can manage.

 

[Shock]

I'm well aware of C Subs rush game, and in normal play conditions the jabs to ground ice mix ups are almost useless and they set him up to take big damage. Essentially, C Subs rush strats and mix ups are things you might be able to get once in a while on someone, and in many cases, maybe only once, which doesn't make him any better. Sektor's zoning strats are constantly threatening to anyone and require a lot more effort to avoid.

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

When I think of C.Sub, all I think is 1 dimentional. He only has one useful combo, and if you can't relaunch it's only 30% with the JK, and without the slide (which is usually blockable). Being able to trick your opponent into letting go of block doesn't really matter here. It's not even really a "trap". Just mind games.

When I think of Sektor, I think of 2 dimentional. He has good defense, and a good offense when comparing to C.Sub. His Zoning abilities are greater than C.Subs and that C.Subs main game. I 95% of the time will beat a very good C.Sub, while when playing a good Sektor, I win 89% of the time.

They both suck in any case, along with Cyrax. While they are 1, and 2 Dimentional characters, the top 10 are 3 and 4, which make a big difference.

 

[MKF30]

I wouldn't say suck completely, especially Sektor and Cyrax..Sektor's overall solid defense and offense(smart missles into juggles or FT etc) definitely doesn't make Sektor "suck" unless he's taking on someone insane like kabal or someone..

Cyrax I also feel (although nowhere near the top) doesn't really suck either...I feel pretty confident when I play him against almost anyone except for ninja teleporters or top tiers like H. Smoke, Kabal etc.

C. Sub is good but to a point, like shock was saying his offensive game is limited and if anticipated(Especially his Ground freeze) he'll take massive punishment, I've taken advantage of opportunities like this myself a few times online with Sektor and Cyrax.

Ground freeze attempt vs. Sektor(teleport) I get easy damage and a good combo

Ground Freeze vs. Cyrax net, one thing I have done lately is net just outside ground freeze distance jump over it and punch combo starter from other side easy 40% right there not to mention if you can manage to lay out a bomb same time as the ground freeze, Sub player will have to waste sometime by jumping over or out of the way to avoid the bomb exploding near them...sometimes if you're lucky the ground freeze will end in that time. C.Sub's normal freeze to me anyway is a better idea if you trade projectile hits, he has the edge

 

[Birkin]

MKF, you were playing someone who didn't know how to play Kabal if you won.

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

MKF, you were playing someone who didn't know how to play Kabal if you won.

QFT

 

[Pink Godzilla]

^
Not necessarily, I beat above average Kabals with my Cyrax too.

 

[MKF30]

MKF, you were playing someone who didn't know how to play Kabal if you won.

Hanzo not know how to use Kabal? Unlikely...he's one of the best South American players to play UMK3, I didn't beat someone that didn't know how to use Kabal...trust me.

Besides, being a player that's played MK for years(all of them) online if available to me I can tell right off the bat if someone knows how to use a character well or not, he can definitely use him well 8)

Pink, thank you exactly what I'm saying...

 

[ded]

lol man, hanzo's kabal online has nothing to do with his kabal on arcade

 

[Dj_Eric_DarkSide]

mkf30

ded thats true, mkf 30,,, i dont know what kabal have you beat,,i dont play with kabal and i bet that i can kick your yellow ass easily with kabal... i dont know where the hell you play man but i never see you on xboxlive,,,im looking for some challenge in xbox live,,im so bored that i mostly ramdon now. rarely i see some1 that play for real. i want to see your cirax against my wolf and smoke...people here talk too much and dont play enough.

xbox live: DjEric darkside

 

[Dj_Eric_DarkSide]

and you know what,,,, you are pregnant.....i have a couple of babalities 4 you.. and just try to beat crazy's dominican sheeva....supposedly she is the worse,,, and lets see how many matches before you can maybe win one round...

 

[Tim Static]

damn DJ Eric, hahaha