UMK3 Match Based Tier Chart

[Shock]

I'm really liking the breakdowns and insight you guys are giving. I think over the next few days to a week we'll really get to the bottom of this. Basically what we're seeing is some shifting placement within tiers for the most part, from the existing list.

Konqrr I agree on the Ermac/Smoke 6/4 over Kitana. A good number of the 5/5s I have listed are matches I couldn't really decide on a true winner based on my personal experience, but the set is definitely close.

Kitana/Classic Sub I agree

USub and Cyrax I still see more as a 7/3, not quite an 8/2 but perhaps it is, however USub RSmoke I can agree with. For Scorp/Sub, I'm still inclined to think the ice clone mixups can bait enough teleports to overshadow Scorpion's low damage, where H Smoke would dominate USub merely because of it.

I will go through and make some adjustments. Players keep looking over the chart and anything you see that you don't like, point it out over and over. Also the chart itself should be a bit easier to read now. I would like to eventually have a hover-over function when you point to a row, but I would like it to highlight a cross, up down and left right so it intersects over which characters you're comparing on hover. Could even do something goofy eventually with some game sprites where if you hover over a match up, the characters will be in a certain frame of animation comically dictating how good or bad the match up is.

 

[MKK hanzo]

* Kitana can't jump back and air fan safely. They can tp her on reaction for a free combo.

My memory is cloudy but... I remember that she can jump back and do late kick and that always beat ninja tlpt... Im cloudy again... Or was Sheeva?

 

[ded]

she can do low air fans all day against teleporters

 

[Konqrr]

My memory is cloudy but... I remember that she can jump back and do late kick and that always beat ninja tlpt... Im cloudy again... Or was Sheeva?

Sheeva and Kabal can do that, I've had no luck with that.

she can do low air fans all day against teleporters

They can still hit her jump back, they don't have to wait for the fan right? I mean, they can do tp right when they see her start to throw the fan, it's not hard as she stops in the air lol

 

[ded]

i meant otg low air fans, sorry

 

[MKK hanzo]

Sheeva and Kabal can do that, I've had no luck with that.



They can still hit her jump back, they don't have to wait for the fan right? I mean, they can do tp right when they see her start to throw the fan, it's not hard as she stops in the air lol

But female ninjas can or cant do that? I remember when I was gettin into UMK3 and some guy did all that jumback in that time and everyone was upset that they couldnt teleport hit him...

 

[Shock]

Countering Kitana ascending air fans does require some timing, a lot more timing than countering her on jump backs and jump back fans. The only problem Kitana develops is she makes a pattern out of them just as she does with the descending air fans. Depending on where Kitana is on the jump back, just like vs Kabal, it can miss her, so you actually have to do a instant air teleport! at times lol...it's like doing Jax's T2 Arm Slice. Jax btw, has a very easy time re-countering teleport counters on jump backs, with late JKs and air throws.

 

[Konqrr]

i meant otg low air fans, sorry

Yeah, for sure...she can throw iAFs at them all day. It's the descending AF (dAF lol) that she can't do anymore.

 

[Shock]

Any more ideas floating around? I would like to have some match ups settled

 

[mafioso]

hey there Shock, i'd like to comment some of matchups u posted.
Kabal vs Shang 9:1 - imo thats too much , even w/o morphs ... i dont think there is 9:1 matchup even exist in umk, come on it's not THAT unbalanced
vs unmasked Sub 7:3- also i'd disagree, usub's zoninig is great, so u prevent agressive runjabs and random spins, what else we need ftw?
also imo:
mileena vs reptile 5:5
sector vs male ninjas (except hsmoke) 4.5:5.5
cyrax vs jax 4:6
kung lao vs nightwolf 4:6
im a lao fan and mained him for a few years(now im random ), i fought some good NWs
so im sure it's NW favor.
lao vs sonya - i agree 4:6
lao vs sindel - i think its opposite, she's very annoying, definitely 4:6 (u gave 6:4)
also i dont think there is any 7:3 matchup for Lao(maybe sheeva?), sektor, mileena, jade...female ninjas are tough, u can't start combo with air punch( is that what it calls?),his run jabs against fem.ninjas suck, but their's works too well against lao...
U did great job, i know thats pretty hard to arrange matchups by memory or virtually imagine every match. It is late here, i'll post some more later.

 

[Tim Static]

Kabal vs Shang 9-1 is being generous imo

 

[tonshaad1230]

Kabal vs Shang 9-1 is being generous imo

Kabal vs Shang Tsung should be a 10-0 in reality. Regardless if Shang morph into Kabal or Ermac, its still not balanced.

 

[mafioso]

ok i bet any money, that i win at least 2 games of 10 vs kabal

 

[ded]

ok i bet any money, that i win at least 2 games of 10 vs kabal

everyone should post their own match based tiers. so it comes to if you play against yourself could you beat your own kabal with your shang tsung...

 

[mafioso]

yeah thats what i mean, i can beat my kabal (he is probably shity )
also theres a few good playres out here, im sure their kabal is beatable too.
maybe i do judge chars mostly by tactics, not by their overall 'physical possibilities'
so u can turtle with sub zero all round and win or even sheeva(!), u shouldn't rushdown vs kabal, cause he IS best at rushing down, u gotta use your own weapon, not his
that is MO.

dont know if it is fair and correct to compare mkt and umk, i really never played mkt, but here is my favorite player i learned some good tricks from his videos (great shang player, i believe he is mkk member ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ms_aXhmNU

 

[ded]

MKT is very very different from UMK3, and MKT for N64 is even more man.

 

[Tim Static]

very very different doesnt even really describe how different it is lol

 

[mafioso]

yeah i suppose.
but i've mentioned mkt not as a 100% proof of shang's greatness.

imo
sheeva vs lao 4.5:5.5 she's got very good(big priority/hitbox ?) jump punch, her aaHP is great, also pretty hard to juggle her; standing HK beats Lao's dive kick... she has 51%(airstart-ground) and 49%(airstart-popup+2hp+Fb) combos ...etc

 

[tonshaad1230]

Wait a minute relooking over the chart i see one thing i don't like... Kano has been nerfed from #4th to #6th why? He has the tools to give out good damaging comboes and plus he got nice aa moves. i honestly believe Kung Lao needs to come down. Without His teleport spin comboes he sucks.

 

[Shock]

Wait a minute relooking over the chart i see one thing i don't like... Kano has been nerfed from #4th to #6th why? He has the tools to give out good damaging comboes and plus he got nice aa moves. i honestly believe Kung Lao needs to come down. Without His teleport spin comboes he sucks.

And Kabal without his Spin isn't that good either. We can't assume a character will never connect their useful moves that lead to damage.

 

[ded]

There is something i want to say about Kung Lao from a while and its related to the comments i lately see about him. What most people need to realize, is that he needs one spin or inf option to win, just one!

If you play the game just for win, you can do the easy inf variation, the corner one and etc, you dont need to try get them out of corner, trying fancy lao inf variations and stuff like that.


Remember he can sneak the spin between runjabs, corner pressure and punishers, so...thats it.

 

[Shock]

I agree that Kung Lao is becoming somewhat underrated. It requires amazing strategical characters to really give him a problem.

 

[Tim Static]

There is something i want to say about Kung Lao from a while and its related to the comments i lately see about him. What most people need to realize, is that he needs one spin or inf option to win, just one!

If you play the game just for win, you can do the easy inf variation, the corner one and etc, you dont need to try get them out of corner, trying fancy lao inf variations and stuff like that.


Remember he can sneak the spin between runjabs, corner pressure and punishers, so...thats it.

exactly. JUST ONE. He belongs where he is at. period.

 

[tonshaad1230]

There is something i want to say about Kung Lao from a while and its related to the comments i lately see about him. What most people need to realize, is that he needs one spin or inf option to win, just one!

If you play the game just for win, you can do the easy inf variation, the corner one and etc, you dont need to try get them out of corner, trying fancy lao inf variations and stuff like that.


Remember he can sneak the spin between runjabs, corner pressure and punishers, so...thats it.

True but what Shock said about that one stragetical character what if that character is so good enough that it'll completly shutdown kung lao's options to even dare try to Spin? Kung Lao is as limited as it goes and honestly Kano and Nightwolf would give him a run for his money.

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

exactly. JUST ONE. He belongs where he is at. period.

The same can be said for Stryker, yet he is quite a ways down the list. It's even more practical to 'start' Stryker's infinite since all it requires is a pop-up auto combo.