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UMK3 Match Based Tier Chart

ded

Elder God
stryker is slow (!), limited and risky character. kung lao can play both def and offensive, and both of his games have so many mixed patterns (what i mean is that there are SAFE scenarios in both def/offensive strats) + if you compare spin, jp, spin to gun, punchx2, gun I really think the Lao inf is easier.

i really dont think kano is that much of a challenge to lao, since a wrong roll/vroll means end of the round, and i agree nightwolf vs lao is though, but thats it. believe it or not, lao has an amazing air game (except vs kabal).
 
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O Juggernaut 0

Ambassador
stryker is slow (!), limited and risky character. kung lao can play both def and offensive, and both of his games have so many mixed patterns (what i mean is that there are SAFE scenarios in both def/offensive strats) + if you compare spin, jp, spin to gun, punchx2, gun I really think the Lao inf is easier.
There's really no risk in going for a pop-up. Stryker too can play an offensive or defensive style, he can zone quite well if you know what you're doing. Lao's infinite may be slightly easier, but Stryker's is easier to get the first initial hit required to start it. The only way you can get hit by Lao's infinite, is if you jump. You can mix it in with run jabs, but it will be blocked more often than not, and punished for free.

Listen, I'm not saying Stryker is better than Kung Lao. I'm pointing out that having an infinite isn't a good enough reason to be top tier. Several characters have infinites, including Cyrax and Shang, who are at the very bottom of the tier list.
 

9.95

Noob
Right but, you saw Summoning's Lao, and from that alone you should know that Lao can be played in such a way that you don't NEED the infinite to win... I will grant you that he could do the infinite more often when the opportunity is available, but Summoning is a top level Lao player without always using it when it's available. Lao has the tools to handle everyone in the cast with the exception of H.Smoke and Kabal.
 

O Juggernaut 0

Ambassador
Right but, you saw Summoning's Lao, and from that alone you should know that Lao can be played in such a way that you don't NEED the infinite to win... I will grant you that he could do the infinite more often when the opportunity is available, but Summoning is a top level Lao player without always using it when it's available. Lao has the tools to handle everyone in the cast with the exception of H.Smoke and Kabal.
I know Lao doesn't need the infinite, in fact, there's no Lao player in the world that would be able to beat me by just relying on the infinite.

I was responding to the claim that ded and Tim made about "one mistake = game over". That's not a viable argument because the same can be said for multiple characters, some of which are mid to low tier.
 

ded

Elder God
its not about having the infinite but the opportunity how often you could catch someone with it and perform it....i cant believe you bring that as a reason....

adding the easy as hell cheap infinite to all lao's potential and both offensive and defensive game is enough "claim" for me. and stryker's offensive game sux. look at the characters higher than stryker and lower than him, the only better match up would be against nightwolf. thats it.

i'm sorry i cant convince you how good kung lao can actually be.
 
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MKK hanzo

Moderator
Premium Supporter
its not about having the infinite but the opportunity how often you could catch someone with it and perform it....i cant believe you bring that as a reason....

adding the easy as hell cheap infinite to all lao's potential and both offensive and defensive game is enough "claim" for me. and stryker's offensive game sux. look at the characters higher than stryker and lower than him, the only better match up would be against nightwolf. thats it.

i'm sorry i cant convince you how good kung lao can actually be.
Not even me. ;) And I am dead serious! I suport Juggs comment and have always said that since year 2000 about Lao: he isnt top. NW vs Lao owns Lao for free, easier even than Kabal vs Lao.

Too much char disvantages. And that "sneak a spin through lp" is bs. Try to do that to Marv or any other good GJabber... Its either a throw or a blocked hat Spin.

Unless you are playing on KB thats it.

;)
 

ded

Elder God
Not even me. ;) And I am dead serious! I suport Juggs comment and have always said that since year 2000 about Lao: he isnt top. NW vs Lao owns Lao for free, easier even than Kabal vs Lao.

Too much char disvantages. And that "sneak a spin through lp" is bs. Try to do that to Marv or any other good GJabber... Its either a throw or a blocked hat Spin.

Unless you are playing on KB thats it.

;)
Why you keep bringing that again? I already said a million times that Nightwolf can own Lao...all ground chars can give Lao hard times, but there are not that much.

"Too much char disvantages." - and what that means?

I dont see how gjabs can own lao, unless its with Kabal...you have the teleport, the div kick crossover, the sweep (probably the longes sweep in the game that cannot be punished from long distance if blocked). Nightwolf owns Lao not because gjabs...
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
While Stryker's infinite is certainly easy, Kung Lao's is truly one where you can say that it's a one mistake match anywhere. Stryker's always has the chance to hit the corner at a bad distance and end abruptly, where Kung's infinite has control and compensation anywhere. That is what sets their respective infinites apart. Shang's is probably the most difficult to do, but there are players who can do it. I would say Stryker's infinite is somewhere between relaunch and Kung Lao's in terms of dangerousness. On top of this, Kung Lao is just an overall better character than Stryker based on how UMK3 is played, Stryker is definitely good though and played way differently. Kung's placement between 5 and 3 is probably fair, and Stryker's, nearly dead center of the list, maybe top of the middle sometimes.

I really want to finish this chart up and go over some match ups to make a new tier list we can all accept to some degree. Any matchups people have a huge problem with?
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
I really want to finish this chart up and go over some match ups to make a new tier list we can all accept to some degree. Any matchups people have a huge problem with?
I have a question. Why is Human Smoke vs Kung Lao a 6-4 matchup but Ermac vs Lao is 4-6? Is it soley because of the air throw? I can understand if it is because the only way I can kind of deal with Summonings Lao is by air throwing the hell out of him whenever I get the chance.
Im just wondering is there more to it than that? Beyond H.Smoke just being a better character I mean?
H.Smoke and Ermac play sort of similarly so Im just wondering why a winning matchup for H.Smoke is a losing matchup for Ermac?
 

MKK hanzo

Moderator
Premium Supporter
Why you keep bringing that again? I already said a million times that Nightwolf can own Lao...all ground chars can give Lao hard times, but there are not that much.

"Too much char disvantages." - and what that means?

I dont see how gjabs can own lao, unless its with Kabal...you have the teleport, the div kick crossover, the sweep (probably the longes sweep in the game that cannot be punished from long distance if blocked). Nightwolf owns Lao not because gjabs...
Its just my opinion bro, dot take it bad. As I said, no one will ever convince me of Lao = top.

Char disadvantages:

* Can be relaunched EASILY

* Accidental Hat Throw when lp rushing

* Teleport SUCKS

* Miss ANY punch starter against female ninjas, and thats a free combo in the whiffed elbow/knee animation.

* Ultra bad matchups: NW, Kabal, H Smoke, all female ninjas, SONYA, R. Smoke.


Why Lao sucks vs GJabbers? Well again dont take it bad but have you played against a TOP GJabber?

What can Lao do against a Gjabber? Even if its not kabal:

* Low dive kick "semi safe" = puts him at disvantage

* Hat Spin? Its your ass, free combo.

* VERY FARhat throw? So so but bad against a teleporter.

* Sweep? All sweepsCAN be punished, not only after (Kabal dash, Mileena roll, Sub/Rept/Sub Slides, etc) but before the attack is blocked by a SMALL run in Lk. Female ninjas have LONG legs and can do that easily, same as male ninjas. Or if you have the skill then any special like:

NW SS

USub/Rept/Sub slide

Mileena Roll

Sindel Scream

* Try and crossup? LOL.

TRUE IS that one spin = bye bye but, against a high level player + GJwhat are his options to land a Spin?

Just my 2 cents again.

And yes the tier and matchup is very well done Shock.

EDIT: Just notation I dont know if that would affect the matchup:

Sonya vs jade, after whiffed/blocked green kick, Sonya fail punch/kick starter and sometimes even a Uppercutt. Best I do there is a single Leg Grab.

EDIT2: this stuff should be taken in account: landing combos on shang are hard, also on sheeva, female ninjas small hitboxes make tlp male ninjas combos whiff sometimes etc. Those are "char disadvantages" IMO or could be called atributes IDK.
 

ded

Elder God
i will not arguing in forums with you hanzo, infact forum talk on such subjects always leads to nothing. But - relaunchers? really?!?!
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
I have a question. Why is Human Smoke vs Kung Lao a 6-4 matchup but Ermac vs Lao is 4-6? Is it soley because of the air throw? I can understand if it is because the only way I can kind of deal with Summonings Lao is by air throwing the hell out of him whenever I get the chance.
Im just wondering is there more to it than that? Beyond H.Smoke just being a better character I mean?
H.Smoke and Ermac play sort of similarly so Im just wondering why a winning matchup for H.Smoke is a losing matchup for Ermac?
I think it's because H.Smoke can easily combo Lao for 50% no matter what and can extend it with relaunch pretty easily to the corner where Ermac has a hard time juggling Lao outside of the corner and gets less damage. The air throw is a factor as well.
 

MKK hanzo

Moderator
Premium Supporter
i will not arguing in forums with you hanzo, infact forum talk on such subjects always leads to nothing. But - relaunchers? really?!?!
Im not arguing friend, just saying why "I" think that Lao is not top.If you want to put it there fine, but I dont agree, but that doesnt affect anything else. I still love ya (no homo) and Tim. ;)

Lets wait to Lex (best Lao I have ever seen) or Miss Spin or Pajaromayor play against Marv wich is a GOOD GJabber or CD and see the outcome! ;)
 
Is the UMK3 kiallera scene still alive for you guys? The only proes i've fought were dreamcatcher and Wazz. Dream we need to seriously fight man, i'm sick of fighting nobodies!
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
Is the UMK3 kiallera scene still alive for you guys? The only proes i've fought were dreamcatcher and Wazz. Dream we need to seriously fight man, i'm sick of fighting nobodies!
This thread is a discussion about tier lists in UMK3, not about what is going on with kaillera. You have been spamming this forum repeatedly lately with nonsense threads, necro'ing long dead threads and random and off topic posts in threads where it doesnt belong. And its going to stop. This is your last warning, learn how to post and learn some forum ettiquete or you will be going on a vacation from here.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
How do you guys go over tiers and what do you guys think the tier is for MK9
We'll know soon enough.

@mafioso

It sort of establishes a mini tiering for the female ninjas, though sometimes I feel Mileena can be better than Jade, it's still more a 5/5 than even that.

Kitana
Jade
Mileena
 

nwo

Noob
Lao can fight in close better than most people think. Lao gets more opportunities for infinities than most people think. I believe he's the only character that throws his opponent forward, which (I find) doesn't break his momentum as much during rushing.

I got to play @Shock offline in casuals at NEC14 (I think I only used Kung Lao).

I bet his opinion on Lao hasn't changed since this thread.
 
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Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Lao can fight in close better than most people think. Lao gets more opportunities for infinities than most people think. I believe he's the only character that throws his opponent forward, which (I find) doesn't break his momentum as much during rushing.

I got to play @Shock offline in casuals at NEC14 (I think I only used Kung Lao).

I bet his opinion on Lao hasn't changed since this thread.
Summoning mains Lao as well and uses him about 75% of our matches so I have a lot of experience against the character with the entire roster, but I agree the danger of catching a stray spin makes close up game vs him interesting but it's not quite as pressuring as Kabal's spin.
 

nwo

Noob
Summoning mains Lao as well and uses him about 75% of our matches so I have a lot of experience against the character with the entire roster, but I agree the danger of catching a stray spin makes close up game vs him interesting but it's not quite as pressuring as Kabal's spin.
Catching a stray spin should always be in the back of the opponents head yes...

If an elite Lao blocks one of Kabal's spins, the round should be over.

I wish I was able to play against Summoning at NEC14 also, unfortunately it didn't happen.