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TYM's Injustice 2 at E3 2016 Thread

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Come on now we know that the lack of balance is because of some terrible patch changes. They could make a balanced but new game if they actually listened a bit more to some of the community. Let's not just blame it on them changing it up because other games that don't change seem to have better balance. With mechanical changes between games things are going to be mesed up anyway and there will be patches to address stuff. The difference between patching the right things and stuff getting yolo patched without a reason plays a huge part in people's opinions of the balance of this game. For everything they change right 2 more things get changed wrongly and/or for no reason.
How would they listen to the community if the game was redone from scratch though? Games like SF4 were muchhh more balanced in the final version than the vanilla version. Because they weren't revamping, they were playing over a long period of time and then adjusting with each new game for better balance. I'll give you a better example. MK9 to MKX. Regardless of the opinion on either game.

-In MKX, it was released with things like RaidenLolMidStarter, KungJinWinsLol, FtierKitana, etc etc. Highly broken stuff either too strong or too weak. Throughout patches they try to fix and adjust soooo many characters, compensating for sooo many variations, which is very likely an impossible balance job to where we're left with a "kinda balanced to a certain extent but not really" game Game was redone from the ground up while also adding 3 variations.

-Now on the flip side of the coin, imagine if MKX was a semi updated MK9. There would have been no RaidenLolMid in the first place, because they would have taken the MK9 version, adjusted him better to the current game, and then moved on to the next with no variations over complicating things. Or Balanced Kenshi, who has changes that would've worked in MK9 but makes him crap in MKX because the game/chars are so different from what was MK9. All the time not spent on redoing every single character could've went to guys like Kung Jin, who then don't come out as insane on release, Takeda, who doesn't come out getting hit with infinites, Etc. Then all the time not spent patching that stuff after release could be spent on patching the rest of the stuff. 2-3 games later balance is near perfect.

Back to Tekken. Known for its godlike balance. But in the entire series, the most imbalanced Tekken game was Tekken 4, the game where they decided to "revamp" it and do it completely different. When they went back to the legacy formula it regained its balance.


As you already know, I've been superrrr outspoken on NRS balance decisions in the past. Some they get right, some they get wrong, some make no sense. But using the last game as a template will help them balance it better than ever. The easiest way to look at it is "if NRS has to balance a game for a year, is it easier to do it with an existing model adjusted after years of release, or a brand new from scratch model?"
 
yeah, gear is probably going to affect move list. Maybe you can have the same base character as a grappler, frame trap, zoner, etc.
 

zerosebaz

What's the point of a random Krypt?

New footage
Atrocitus' super @ 0:40
Batman v superman @ 1: 53
First look:

Aquaman's super is different, he flashes and then charges at you.
So does batman's, it starts with a tackle
Bat's trait is back,
his batarangs are different. An effect of customisation?
 

GrimJack

Rock paper scissor specialist
I hope this is not the kind of gears stack on gears and gears will change every bit of frame data
 

ChatterBox

Searching for an alt.
Supergirl's whirlwind + teleport marks the introduction of the Forward-Away Hard-to-Blockable.
If they are sticking to legacy of this game then you can block that real easy by just holding down.

That's why the left/right mixups in Inj 1 were always overheads.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
If they listened to the community, the game would be even worse. No one who is competitive is in it for the "balance," they just want their character taken care of and are unaware of the powder keg that every balance change is.

Also, I think a legacy title is a great idea to build from the foundation of a game that was mechanically sound but might have had some balance issues on the surface. Every mechanic appears to have returned (jury's out on pushblock) and even added some new ones to keep it fresh.

I do wonder, though, if people understand the cost of diversity. There will be horrendous MUs. Hawkgirl was amazingly cool, but she was always going to have hard counters, and that's the way it will be with diverse designs. That's not really a problem, as many players of many different games have accepted that over the years and played on, but I hope this community knows what it wants and is willing to accept the costs.
I believe that's a bill. Of course you don't have to listen to the entire community but each character community has their universally agreed changes that seem reasonable. Look what happened to Kano, if they'd listened to the Kano community and increased Cybernetic's damage while leaving Cutthroat along (who should never have been touched in the first place) then he'd be a much more balanced character but instead Cutthroat is a top 5 contender and Cybernetic is barely touched any more. They don't even give reasoning for their changes, at least some explanation like what IG does with KI would help a lot.

I'm not against them keeping moves or anything, I'm interested to see the result, it's just that with the perceived balance of the first Injustice I'm wary of what them bringing back movesets will result in.

New footage
Atrocitus' super @ 0:40
Batman v superman @ 1: 53
Yo!!! A LOT of new stuff in there!
How would they listen to the community if the game was redone from scratch though? Games like SF4 were muchhh more balanced in the final version than the vanilla version. Because they weren't revamping, they were playing over a long period of time and then adjusting with each new game for better balance. I'll give you a better example. MK9 to MKX. Regardless of the opinion on either game.

-In MKX, it was released with things like RaidenLolMidStarter, KungJinWinsLol, FtierKitana, etc etc. Highly broken stuff either too strong or too weak. Throughout patches they try to fix and adjust soooo many characters, compensating for sooo many variations, which is very likely an impossible balance job to where we're left with a "kinda balanced to a certain extent but not really" game Game was redone from the ground up while also adding 3 variations.

-Now on the flip side of the coin, imagine if MKX was a semi updated MK9. There would have been no RaidenLolMid in the first place, because they would have taken the MK9 version, adjusted him better to the current game, and then moved on to the next with no variations over complicating things. Or Balanced Kenshi, who has changes that would've worked in MK9 but makes him crap in MKX because the game/chars are so different from what was MK9. All the time not spent on redoing every single character could've went to guys like Kung Jin, who then don't come out as insane on release, Takeda, who doesn't come out getting hit with infinites, Etc. Then all the time not spent patching that stuff after release could be spent on patching the rest of the stuff. 2-3 games later balance is near perfect.

Back to Tekken. Known for its godlike balance. But in the entire series, the most imbalanced Tekken game was Tekken 4, the game where they decided to "revamp" it and do it completely different. When they went back to the legacy formula it regained its balance.


As you already know, I've been superrrr outspoken on NRS balance decisions in the past. Some they get right, some they get wrong, some make no sense. But using the last game as a template will help them balance it better than ever. The easiest way to look at it is "if NRS has to balance a game for a year, is it easier to do it with an existing model adjusted after years of release, or a brand new from scratch model?"
How would they listen if the game was redone from scratch? Those are two uncorrelated things. People learn more about the game and discuss it then come to decisions on how those tools are and people can listen to those opinions, that's how.

Raiden and Jin were not broken in any capacity, just strong. Kitana having infinites is different though. You're insinuating it'd be too hard to balance the game because of variations but that's just a cop out because it's more than possible to at least get a generally good balance. I say the balance of a game is determined by the difference in strength of the best character and worst character and right now MKX is a hell of a lot more balanced than before. It's just that with a new game changing up things drastically it means characters are going to move around more drastically but it doesn't mean it's not growing towards a better balance.

You can't say they would've adjusted Raiden better in MKX if he had the same moves, they didn't do it in MK9.

If you agree a lot of the balance decisions by them have been terrible then how can you suddenly make your argument that said company would balance better simply because they have the last game's base to work from? I personally don't see that as true at all because it's not just about the tools, it's how well they balance them.

In saying all of this though I think we need to wait until the game is further finished first and we're sure this is actually happening lol.
 

BanTheTesters

“My AGENT is tougher than you...”
Moderator
A bunch of animations look reused from MKX and Injustice.

Wonder how early this is for them.
I actually noticed a bunch of the combo string animations (almost in their entirety..) look carried over to I2..maybe this is all place holder possibly?

But yea Im thinking this definitely has to be a SUPER early build lol.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Got hyped for returning moves, maybe NRS will release an even slightly balanced game. But if gear is giving out new moves then you can toss on release balance out the window. Unless tourneys only use default. Maybe one or two diff moves of the community wants.
 

TheBoyBlunder

They love my Grayson
TYM People I can do without:

TYM People who get all defensive and butthurt when another members shows criticism. It's like a thread or post can't be made without something crying over a critic. Let the critics live and speak their mind. If everyone was always content and okay with how things are going, the atmosphere on the site would be completely imbalance and unhealthy.

TYM People who mindlessly critic things. It's perfectly fine to be a critic, but please don't be terrible at it.

A good critic: Batman's idle stance WTF???
- 100% reasonable. Batman's fighting stance looks impractical. No guard up, it looks like Alfred Pennyworth's fighting stance, old english boxing.



Lets just hope:
Walk speed is good.
I would not mind a run button in IGAU.
Better animations/faces.
Eliminate safe 50/50s. Award people for blocking and guessing right.