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TYM's Injustice 2 at E3 2016 Thread

Wetdoba

All too easy...
It looks like being hit during an armoured F3/B3 delays the startup of the move.

Either that or they've made them slower/I'm wrong.

You can see that they went with a stagger system instead of a bounce. Promoting dash-in combos for more movement/wallcarry or just better grounded punishment?
Maybe he just held it like you could in I1, sickkk
 

huh

Mortal
Rewatch any EVO right after a NRS release: you always cringe about how basic, non-optimal, shallow and straightforward the gameplay was. You then watch the same game 2,5 years after, and notice a huge evolution of the neutral, MU's, optimal combos, punishes, etc.. but by then, the game is already being dropped and the offline scene has the same repeated top players, and a small influx of new players.

NRS fighters have a very short life cycle, and they cannot build up a large base of players due to that. By the time the majority start to grasp the intricacies of the game, we are already moving on to the next. And then, it's all over and start from scratch. We are able to see very little of the higher potencial the game has, and from very few people (just the ones that are fast learners, as Sonicfox, F0xy, and the other usual top 10). Actually, we see one year of shallow gameplay, then one year of average gameplay with occasional high level from selected players, and then one year of higher gameplay from more people, but with small turnouts in a niche community. I.e. we almost don't see the game being played on its potencial. It's majorly suboptimal play, and very few people have time to reach the highest level.

That's why I think it's fantastic if Injustice goes for the legacy way, keeping the same movesets for the old characters. Advantages:

- We are able to start from a higher level of gameplay.
The tournaments immediately have more skilled players than before, when only a handful of prodigies could pick up the game very fast.

- The skill gap will be smaller.
Now, players can build upon previous learning, and had 3+ years to develop skills and close the gap to the top prodigies. Eventually, more people will be playing at the highest level, know MU's upside down, react with optimal punishes and combos, defend/deal with other's dirt, know spacing, have a strategy for every neutral situation, etc... Doesn't matter if some took 1 year to do so and others took 4 years. They eventually will meet at the top of the gameplay

- The community will grow.
Being able to build from previous titles, the players now have incentive to keep playing. When you know all the Lab hours will not be lost in 2 years, but on the contrary, will pay off for years to come, you can keep playing. And new players can be sure that with dedication, they'll have time to get at the top, or at least a chance to do so. So, the numbers can steadily grow over the years.

- Less time finding out combos, more time working on your neutral.
Footsies will surely be more present from the start, when you already know how to deal with crazy shenanigans and to work out MU's.

- Tournaments more pleasant to watch from scratch.
More hype, more skill, and increasingly more competition. Look how, after 2 years of MKX, people are starting to catch up to Sonicfox. He is still winning a lot, but he's clearly working harder to do so. If MKX had one more year, I'm sure guy's like Hayatei, Scar, F0xy, Dragon and others would get there.

- The game itself can have a more balanced and larger roster from start.
Less patches, more fun.

So, Injustice having a legacy approach is fantastic and I'm looking forward to see how it develops during the game's lifespan.
 

SkaGoogle

Tailgates & Tan-lines !
i seriously doubt this is final, but if for some reason it is then its lazy af. to keep ALL the same normals and specials AND animations, i dont think any fighting game has ever done that. in SF they have the same/similar ones but never cut and pasted animations and stances.
i'm pretty sure many other fighters cut and paste moves/animations.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I mean that's easy for you to say coming from a game like Tekken where they do that every game, it's just that with Injustice the moves/gameplan of some characters were so boring that people might not want that back. Never mind that NRS' signature is changing things up drastically every game.
Exactly why I feel that way. As you said my background is Tekken, so I relate more to legacy games. Though a game like Tekken is the definitive pinnacle of balance in a fighter. One of the main reasons is that each game borrows a lot from the last, while tweaking and adjusting moves to better fit the next game. Other games like SF do about 3 or 4 games from the last before they revamp it. This will likely be the most balanced NRS title by far due to them hopefully going the legacy route.

For NRS, it's nearly impossible to achieve that same level of overall balance when you revamp each game. Or maybe they should leave MK with revamps and Inj as legacy. With revamps yea you can have a "balanced better than last time" game, or a "learn it from scratch" game, but you can't really surpass that in terms of long term balance. Part of why they get criticized is because expectations are unrealistic releasing brand new redone games. A character like Aquaman for example can be seen as boring, but revamping his entire moveset would likely create balance issues all over again. When they simply could tone down his trident rush a notch, and use the rest of that time on an extra new character, new game mechanics, more balancing prerelease, etc.


Some people I guess are used to the "brand new revamped game every game" formula, but early balance wise, long term balance wise, and game to game balance wise, that formula always sucked compared to game to game consistency. Fun idea, but bad for balance.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Dude wtf, copy paste aquamanbatman much?
I understand it's injustice, but really wtf.

How does not everyone see it?

"Omg it looks insane, omg its awesome". It's batman and aquaman from inj1 going at it with closer camera angles ffs.
 

The Farmer

Gunslinger since pre ptch -Shout out 2 Youphs 2015
I feel they are not as far along in this game as people believe. I actually feel like this game may be pushed back fir some reason. I know NRS/wb are pretty dead on in April releases, but I have a sneaking suspicion this will take more time.
 
Dude wtf, copy paste aquamanbatman much?
I understand it's injustice, but really wtf.

How does not everyone see it?

"Omg it looks insane, omg its awesome". It's batman and aquaman from inj1 going at it with closer camera angles ffs.

We do see it.

We think its a GOOD thing.

If Green Arrow plays exactly like his previous incarnation with a few changes to make sure he's not bottom 5 I will build a shrine to Paulo, Ed Boon, and the NRS gods from now until the end of the games life.

Ok....maybe I wont do that...but I might make a shirt about it XD
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Exactly why I feel that way. As you said my background is Tekken, so I relate more to legacy games. Though a game like Tekken is the definitive pinnacle of balance in a fighter. One of the main reasons is that each game borrows a lot from the last, while tweaking and adjusting moves to better fit the next game. Other games like SF do about 3 or 4 games from the last before they revamp it. This will likely be the most balanced NRS title by far due to them hopefully going the legacy route.

For NRS, it's nearly impossible to achieve that same level of overall balance when you revamp each game. Or maybe they should leave MK with revamps and Inj as legacy. With revamps yea you can have a "balanced better than last time" game, or a "learn it from scratch" game, but you can't really surpass that in terms of long term balance. Part of why they get criticized is because expectations are unrealistic releasing brand new redone games. A character like Aquaman for example can be seen as boring, but revamping his entire moveset would likely create balance issues all over again. When they simply could tone down his trident rush a notch, and use the rest of that time on an extra new character, new game mechanics, more balancing prerelease, etc.


Some people I guess are used to the "brand new revamped game every game" formula, but early balance wise, long term balance wise, and game to game balance wise, that formula always sucked compared to game to game consistency. Fun idea, but bad for balance.
Come on now we know that the lack of balance is because of some terrible patch changes. They could make a balanced but new game if they actually listened a bit more to some of the community. Let's not just blame it on them changing it up because other games that don't change seem to have better balance. With mechanical changes between games things are going to be mesed up anyway and there will be patches to address stuff. The difference between patching the right things and stuff getting yolo patched without a reason plays a huge part in people's opinions of the balance of this game. For everything they change right 2 more things get changed wrongly and/or for no reason.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Come on now we know that the lack of balance is because of some terrible patch changes. They could make a balanced but new game if they actually listened a bit more to some of the community. Let's not just blame it on them changing it up because other games that don't change seem to have better balance. With mechanical changes between games things are going to be mesed up anyway and there will be patches to address stuff. The difference between patching the right things and stuff getting yolo patched without a reason plays a huge part in people's opinions of the balance of this game. For everything they change right 2 more things get changed wrongly and/or for no reason.
If they listened to the community, the game would be even worse. No one who is competitive is in it for the "balance," they just want their character taken care of and are unaware of the powder keg that every balance change is.

Also, I think a legacy title is a great idea to build from the foundation of a game that was mechanically sound but might have had some balance issues on the surface. Every mechanic appears to have returned (jury's out on pushblock) and even added some new ones to keep it fresh.

I do wonder, though, if people understand the cost of diversity. There will be horrendous MUs. Hawkgirl was amazingly cool, but she was always going to have hard counters, and that's the way it will be with diverse designs. That's not really a problem, as many players of many different games have accepted that over the years and played on, but I hope this community knows what it wants and is willing to accept the costs.
 
Come on now we know that the lack of balance is because of some terrible patch changes..
Hell no we don't. Block infinite super breath much? Vanilla Black Adam backdash come to mind? True, there were a few characters that got the short end of the stick in the patching, but overall the game was much much much better for it...and some of the things that "killed" the game were things that even the community overlooked until later into the games life anyway.
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
I was so cought up with the new characters that I didn't even notice the old ones had the same moves lol
 

zerosebaz

What's the point of a random Krypt?
It was pre-recorded, so probably more of the same, but i didn't see it all...only caught the tail end of it.

And I can't find it uploaded anywhere yet. :/
I've been searching for about 10 minutes and can't find nothing. Dam. Geoff said on his twitter that they were showing 5 minutes of injustice gameplay, and they only showed 2, so there's got to be more.
 

Slymind

Warrior
I don't mind the legacy moves, i just wanted them to have a more refined animation, even if the properties remains similar, and Batman's stance, still annoys me.
 

Fred Marvel

It's actually Freddy Marvel
Wait i just rewwatched the video did anyone hear what Boon was saying?

i think what happens is you have the default Injustice 1 moves (for returning characters) but the gear you get can change your moves and give you new ones...he said you start with a base version and then the gear makes them more powerful and you choose what the gear changes. hmm...
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
Lead Moderator
I've been searching for about 10 minutes and can't find nothing. Dam. Geoff said on his twitter that they were showing 5 minutes of injustice gameplay, and they only showed 2, so there's got to be more.
Yea, im thinking it was about 2 on the Youtube show, then about 3 on the other show.
 

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
It might have just been 5 minutes of generic B roll.

Do we know if it's even playable in any capacity at E3?
 

haketh

Champion
Hell no we don't. Block infinite super breath much? Vanilla Black Adam backdash come to mind? True, there were a few characters that got the short end of the stick in the patching, but overall the game was much much much better for it...and some of the things that "killed" the game were things that even the community overlooked until later into the games life anyway.
Pre Patch Black Adam backdash was perfectly balanced :p
 

SoundsLikePAUSE

Neptune's Beard!!!
Wait i just rewwatched the video did anyone hear what Boon was saying?

i think what happens is you have the default Injustice 1 moves (for returning characters) but the gear you get can change your moves and give you new ones...he said you start with a base version and then the gear makes them more powerful and you choose what the gear changes. hmm...
Yeah, they did mention before that specific gear gives access to specific moves so I definitely think those were just the base versions of Bats/Aquaman we were seeing, and there's plenty new moves to unlock in the game.
 

Flippers

Noob
The first Injustice I enjoyed to some degree for a few months, clocking in around 400 or so matches online. Yet, I did not play Injustice nearly enough as much as I played MK9, so I was lukewarm on news for the Injustice 2 only caring about MKX and Killer Instinct related things. But, with the game play trailer appearing at the ESL finals, and this video in the thread, I am actually looking forward to playing the sequel. Part of it, with some bias, is because Atrocitus is playable (and hopefully Booster Gold.) Either way, the game looks fun. :)