Question - Killer This Is For Our Own Good.

[Colest]

I think low grinder is just fine for a wakeup personally.

It's like -14 on block or something and they have no reason to not block low if they read a wakeup because Psycho Slasher seems like it's fuzzy-able. It's his best option for sure but it's not that great in a lot of scenarios from my experience.

I would agree with the F2 HA nerf if they sped it up some so F21 wasn't such a shitty string. I also agree BS1 could use less BA or pushback. That is pretty dumb that a launcher is that safe.

 

[big j gleez]

Nah. They aren't safe and you can armor out of them every time. You can also poke out in most cases. It creates a mind game where you can delay the strike to bait a poke, but armor wins every time no matter what. I like the mind games personally.

 

[Zoidberg747]

stop what? as a jax player i know i can blow the fuck out of pretty much any Killer player. His neutral game isn't all that. You put pressure on Killer and he should crumble.

He has a 6f poke and 2 armored reversals, one being low and one being OH. Unless Jax has infinite blockstring pressure you wont be able to pressure him forever.

And when its his turn to pressure you he has safe pressure that builds tons of meter, and whenever he lands any combo he can end it with a cancel that leaves him + enough to guarantee even more pressure. I also think saying his neutral is bad is a lie. His f12 works fine if you space it right because the 2nd hit is Mid and comes out fast, so you can't just low profile him.

Killer is a damn good character and he most likely needs normalizations. I say that as someone who mains LF lol.

It's like -14 on block or something and they have no reason to not block low if they read a wakeup because Psycho Slasher seems like it's fuzzy-able. It's his best option for sure but it's not that great in a lot of scenarios from my experience.

I would agree with the F2 HA nerf if they sped it up some so F21 wasn't such a shitty string. I also agree BS1 could use less BA or pushback. That is pretty dumb that a launcher is that safe.

It is fuzzyable but so what? In that case they would be reading you are going to wakeup in the first place. There are very few wakeups that are safe on block in the game. Most of the time if your opponent baits the wakeup, you get punished. He doesn't have the best wakeups but they aren't subpar either.

 

[MadPropz101]

Are you fucking kidding me, dirty ass Ronin Takeda has better cancels that don't take stamina, yet nobody is talking about his cheap ass. Meanwhile Killers cancels can be full combo punished...

 

[themanDan]

Seems like it would be an unnecessary nerf, as most of the cancels are punishable on block. B1 is the only move in which bs4 cancel is safe, and it has a million frames of start up lol.

 

[LeftOverShark]

I've played Khaotic Armor's Killer and I have to say that Killers cancels shouldn't use stamina. The berserker stances is kind of his thing. Much like military stance covert ops, would it make sense for her military stance cancels to cost stamina? I don't think so. Also I agree with stabs he is in your face and he can be poked out of his stance. Sure it can be really intimidating and scary, but I think it is solely up to the player to decide when they should poke/armor out of stagger pressure. It seems that the staggers are kind of a gimmick, but they are a damn good one if I say so myself.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

No way. "He needs it," as the kids like to say.

you get that this a phrase only said satirically right

 

[omooba]

this man is insane
no outstanding weaknessess? umm what's his mid? lol this man has to be high. noone of his cancels jail into a string meaning other than his poke you can beat every other button he presses with your poke. not even talking armor here. DRUUUUUUNK
anyone who thinks this should cost stamina either knows nothing about the cancels or i'm missing something(pretty sure i'm not)

 

[Bomborge]

Are you fucking kidding me, dirty ass Ronin Takeda has better cancels that don't take stamina, yet nobody is talking about his cheap ass. Meanwhile Killers cancels can be full combo punished...

To be fair though, Takeda loses a good portion of his moveset with blade drop. so you blow him up with his plus frames, and hes struggling to get the sword back.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Let it rock. Let the salty tears of people who wish Leatherface wasn't in the game flow.

 

[Kokoko]

It's very weird to compare his cancels with JC, for example. A-list gets plus frames on block, +11, +16. And what about Killer? -12 or -15?
If you think that his cancels must cost stamina with his current frames, gtfo.

 

[juicepouch]

Against most of the cast yes. -8 with pushback.

Cancels don't cost stamina because they don't involve a run input. Other characters like Gunslinger Erron can get out of their stances as well for no stamina.

All the cancels are negative, the only one that is safe is off a 25(ish) frame OH. And even if you somehow get that b1 off, you would only be -4.

Killer needs to be adjusted for sure but this would be kind of a nonsensical nerf that goes against the mechanics of the game. A better change imo would be to reduce the hitstun of f2 so that the unblockable isnt guaranteed at the end of a combo if your opponent doesn't have meter. That is more broke imo.

Is there frame data for LF's cancels somewhere?

 

[Kokoko]

Is there frame data for LF's cancels somewhere?

http://testyourmight.com/threads/xl-killer-leatherface-discussion-thread.58977/page-2

 

[Colest]

It is fuzzyable but so what? In that case they would be reading you are going to wakeup in the first place. There are very few wakeups that are safe on block in the game. Most of the time if your opponent baits the wakeup, you get punished. He doesn't have the best wakeups but they aren't subpar either.

The so what is that there's no mixup for the wakeup like other characters have. Also that's no necessarily true what you said. A lot of mid hitting wakeups have enough pushback or low enough BA that they are only checked with a poke or fast special and are not FCP by most of the cast.

 

[KGA Prosaic]

Killer's Stance cancel should and can't be compared to the like of fireball cancels. Compare it to other characters that goes into a stance and can cancel out of it.

Sonya Covert Ops
Erron Black Gunslinger
Bo Ri Cho Drunken Master

None of these cancel cost stamina. And why should they? None are made sage when canceling. So for making yourself unsafe you should be penalized stamina because the opponent couldn't punish a +15f gap? I can't agree with that. Let's be more real about his issue and that's improper damage scaling.

 

[John Grizzly]

It's not a run cancel so you can't compare it to Liu Kang or Scorpion's fireball cancels (or the countless others in the game with cancels of this nature). They should leave it alone. The KP2 characters have been out less than 2 weeks. I don't think we should start asking for nerfs already. Let's see how things play out at the next major, at least.

 

[I AM MOSSBERG]

Leave the cancels alone. It should not cost a bar. It's fake and full of gimmicks. It's only going to get worse. Like someone said before, without a good mid...it will only get worse.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

This debate pleases me.
Both because it's stirred talk amongst the Faces and because it's stayed surprisigly civil and sane.
We are a lovely bunch of crazies.

I hope those of you who think my question insane are right. I really do. I would love, love, love with my pants off, love upside down, love for this character to stay just the way he is, throughout all of his variations but especially Killer save the suggested fixes for F2 and BS1 because they do actually make sense - can't bitch about savagery if it can be punished - but mainly I want to see the MK Sawyer clan thrive and remain as well informed and murderously capable as possible, for our own sake. We have seen where the past has left previous Kombatants unjustly nerfed or senselessly buffed, and I do not want this fate to befall our beloved Face.

The Saw is love. The Saw is life.
May The Face Be With You.

 

[dennycascade]

Against most of the cast yes. -8 with pushback.

Cancels don't cost stamina because they don't involve a run input. Other characters like Gunslinger Erron can get out of their stances as well for no stamina.

All the cancels are negative, the only one that is safe is off a 25(ish) frame OH. And even if you somehow get that b1 off, you would only be -4.

Killer needs to be adjusted for sure but this would be kind of a nonsensical nerf that goes against the mechanics of the game. A better change imo would be to reduce the hitstun of f2 so that the unblockable isnt guaranteed at the end of a combo if your opponent doesn't have meter. That is more broke imo.

But they can backdash it!

 

[Angryteaspoon]

Leatherface isn't OP and doesnt need nerfs. His cancel is a stance cancel like erron black gunslinger, so it doesnt make sense to cost stamina.

 

[aieches]

should cost stamina

 

[aieches]

takedas tele cancel cost stamnia , and it has nothing to do with a run either -so technically, its a stance also.

so by the logic in this thread - takeda shouldnt have to give up meter for tele cancels either... people would be soooo salty .

 

[Jdizzle31]

I haven't played much leatherface, would this be the equivalent of making Sonyas military stance cancel cost meter? Or is letherfaces cancel allot better?

 

[FoolishProphet]

For a character that can essentially be low poked and uppercutted out of almost all of his pressure(unless it's his butcher variation) no the stance shouldn't use stamina...

 

[SHAOLIN]

I'm confuse here, so I would hope someone would help me out with this:

You guys actually want to help your opponent beat you by having something adjusted in your character's toolset?