Question - Killer This Is For Our Own Good.

[ninjutsubreh]

smh

 

[AK Stormthegates]

Shhhhhhhhh....


Let me bathe in it a little longer.

 

[dennycascade]

Spending stamina on extremely minus cancels get punished on block and not be able to break. All those leatherfaces in future top 8s will agree that totally makes sense

 

[haketh]

Hit me up a year from now when people still don't punish them every time in tournament.

I mean that's fine? I don't really see a reason to make his cancels cost stamina with how they & the character work.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Is the combo starting option off chainsaw stance safe?

Against most of the cast yes. -8 with pushback.

Cancels don't cost stamina because they don't involve a run input. Other characters like Gunslinger Erron can get out of their stances as well for no stamina.

All the cancels are negative, the only one that is safe is off a 25(ish) frame OH. And even if you somehow get that b1 off, you would only be -4.

Killer needs to be adjusted for sure but this would be kind of a nonsensical nerf that goes against the mechanics of the game. A better change imo would be to reduce the hitstun of f2 so that the unblockable isnt guaranteed at the end of a combo if your opponent doesn't have meter. That is more broke imo.

 

[SaltShaker]

A better change imo would be to reduce the hitstun of f2 so that the unblockable isnt guaranteed at the end of a combo if your opponent doesn't have meter. That is more broke imo.

Chill bro, you're being too rational. I think we need to Nerf the Borgs some more instead.

 

[Ghosty1981]

A better change imo would be to reduce the hitstun of f2 so that the unblockable isnt guaranteed at the end of a combo if your opponent doesn't have meter. That is more broke imo.

This.

Doesn't mean I want to see it happen, but this is where the BS4c gets really scary. The opponent has to decide whether to eat an additional 14% (22% with MB), or go for the armor and risk a bait and switch punish.

Stamina cost for cancels isn't changing that.

 

[Wigy]

Against most of the cast yes. -8 with pushback.

Cancels don't cost stamina because they don't involve a run input. Other characters like Gunslinger Erron can get out of their stances as well for no stamina.

All the cancels are negative, the only one that is safe is off a 25(ish) frame OH. And even if you somehow get that b1 off, you would only be -4.

Killer needs to be adjusted for sure but this would be kind of a nonsensical nerf that goes against the mechanics of the game. A better change imo would be to reduce the hitstun of f2 so that the unblockable isnt guaranteed at the end of a combo if your opponent doesn't have meter. That is more broke imo.

can you blow up pokeouts with said move?

 

[Ghosty1981]

can you blow up pokeouts with said move?

The F2 into BS4 at the end of combos can't be poked out of. They either use armor, backdash (I think), or eat a non-scaled BS4 for 14-22% damage.

If Killer cancels the BS4 he has time to block the armored attack and punish, I believe. If he cancels and they don't armor then he can go right into pressure with F12 or 22.

 

[Zoidberg747]

can you blow up pokeouts with said move?

It depends on what you mean.

If you mean poking after the cancels then no, because as said before they are all minus and wouldn't allow you to get back into the stance.

If you mean in general then that is a good question. I've been delaying it when I'd usually do it as a blockstring. Im just not sure if it actually beats pokes or if they're poke didn't come out in time. Thats the next thing im testing tonight.

The F2 into BS4 at the end of combos can't be poked out of. They either use armor, backdash (I think), or eat a non-scaled BS4 for 14-22% damage.

If Killer cancels the BS4 he has time to block the armored attack and punish, I believe. If he cancels and they don't armor then he can go right into pressure with F12 or 22.

They cant backdash it if you do it right.

 

[Wigy]

It depends on what you mean.

If you mean poking after the cancels then no, because as said before they are all minus and wouldn't allow you to get back into the stance.

If you mean in general then that is a good question. I've been delaying it when I'd usually do it as a blockstring. Im just not sure if it actually beats pokes or if they're poke didn't come out in time. Thats the next thing im testing tonight.

If there is a way of blowing up pokeouts into a safe combostarter into the same situation. That is somewhat stupid. I dont know the character well though,

 

[Ghosty1981]

They cant backdash it if you do it right.

Well there ya go. I love the move as a Killer user, but that has to be absolutely rage inducing, especially without meter.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I know the stances all vary.
And I know the BS cancels are mostly negative.
But my point is that I reeeeeeeally don't think in the long run that KillFace would be that much worse off if he didn't get them for free. I don't even use them that often outside of BS4C and even that is sparingly because I like his range game better, and it is fucking MASSIVE. The only serious weakness I could see him having is getting zoned out, and Pretty Lady covers that. The fact that he can get the damage, cancel pressure, range mindgames, and armor he gets could all stand to suffice, because the pitchforks are coming, and it's only a matter of time before the meta gets more fleshed out and people find more things to witch hunt over. I said the same thing about Tremor but no one believed me. Of all the things he could give up to be made a bit more rational, this would definitely be it.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I know the stances all vary.
And I know the BS cancels are mostly negative.
But my point is that I reeeeeeeally don't think in the long run that KillFace would be that much worse off if he didn't get them for free. I don't even use them that often outside of BS4C and even that is sparingly because I like his range game better, and it is fucking MASSIVE. The only serious weakness I could see him having is getting zoned out, and Pretty Lady covers that. The fact that he can get the damage, cancel pressure, range mindgames, and armor he gets could all stand to suffice, because the pitchforks are coming, and it's only a matter of time before the meta gets more fleshed out and people find more things to witch hunt over. I said the same thing about Tremor but no one believed me. Of all the things he could give up to be made a bit more rational, this would definitely be it.

The thing is though it wouldn't make any sense mechanically.

The reason things like Predators cancel pressure cost stamina is because they require a run input. BS4 cancels don't so why should they require stamina?

Besides that, it wouldnt actually fix any of the actual broke stuff that puts him over the top. Thats not really a good way to balance characters, taking away the things that aren't even good I mean.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

The thing is though it wouldn't make any sense mechanically.

The reason things like Predators cancel pressure cost stamina is because they require a run input. BS4 cancels don't so why should they require stamina?

Besides that, it wouldnt actually fix any of the actual broke stuff that puts him over the top. Thats not really a good way to balance characters, taking away the things that aren't even good I mean.

So what would you suggest, F2 aside?
I know it seems nonsensical, but that's exactly my point. how many adjustments have been made since MK9 that made zero sense? how many that needed to be made to save a character's viability or help balance the game went unmade? My logic or lack thereof is that, inevitably, something is gonna be done, because our boy is a fucking beautiful monster and such beasts have a bad habit of not being allowed to live. And out of everything you could do to tone him down outside of scaling his damage, this is the only thing I could conjure.

 

[Ghosty1981]

So what would you suggest, F2 aside?
I know it seems nonsensical, but that's exactly my point. how many adjustments have been made since MK9 that made zero sense? how many that needed to be made to save a character's viability or help balance the game went unmade? My logic or lack thereof is that, inevitably, something is gonna be done, because our boy is a fucking beautiful monster and such beasts have a bad habit of not being allowed to live. And out of everything you could do to tone him down outside of scaling his damage, this is the only thing I could conjure.

They could make his BS1 more negative on block. I cant access the game at the moment so I can't look it up, but how quick is it actually? I know it seems that I can go right into F12 after BS1 gets blocked, which makes it a free and practically safe way to build meter unless they jump.

As it stands it is quite viable to use BS1 frequently as a safe way to catch them with their pants down. Making it more punishable would make sense given the unholy amount of damage that comes with BS1.

 

[Zoidberg747]

So what would you suggest, F2 aside?
I know it seems nonsensical, but that's exactly my point. how many adjustments have been made since MK9 that made zero sense? how many that needed to be made to save a character's viability or help balance the game went unmade? My logic or lack thereof is that, inevitably, something is gonna be done, because our boy is a fucking beautiful monster and such beasts have a bad habit of not being allowed to live. And out of everything you could do to tone him down outside of scaling his damage, this is the only thing I could conjure.

Reduce overall damage
Reduce F2 hitstun
Make BS1 not have as much pushback so it can actually be punished by more than 5 characters

That would be my starting point lol

 

[dribirut]

Lol This character is honestly kind of bad. Dont know why you would even bring This up

 

[dribirut]

The upplaying here is hilarious. Lol the real top dlc character will be revelead soon enough.

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

What? Killer isn't even that good lol

 

[Mighty Durpyena]

Here comes the Leatherface downplay

 

[Zoidberg747]

What? Killer isn't even that good lol

 

[Colest]

I want to see video of the posters in here punishing Killer's cancels 10/10 times on reaction in a real match

I wanted a video of people in the various Summoner threads of them blocking the Bat Vortex 10/10 times and I never got it.

I don't think it needs to consume stamina personally as the only thing that really has caused cancels to consume stamina so far in the game are ones that can lead to true block strings and would be an infinite without them using stamina.

Poking out is possible and backdash on most character will get you out of his followups save the 2nd hit of 12. I'll reevaluate my opinion if I see anything superbly ridiculous with him but as it stands LF is a character with subpar wakeups and cancels that serve the purpose solely to create mind games rather than creating block strings as long as you can cancel.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I wanted a video of people in the various Summoner threads of them blocking the Bat Vortex 10/10 times and I never got it.

I don't think it needs to consume stamina personally as the only thing that really has caused cancels to consume stamina so far in the game are ones that can lead to true block strings and would be an infinite without them using stamina.

Poking out is possible and backdash on most character will get you out of his followups save the 2nd hit of 12. I'll reevaluate my opinion if I see anything superbly ridiculous with him but as it stands LF is a character with subpar wakeups and cancels that serve the purpose solely to create mind games rather than creating block strings as long as you can cancel.

I think low grinder is just fine for a wakeup personally.

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

stop what? as a jax player i know i can blow the fuck out of pretty much any Killer player. His neutral game isn't all that. You put pressure on Killer and he should crumble.