Question - Killer This Is For Our Own Good.

[Indecisive]

I'm confuse here, so I would hope someone would help me out with this:

You guys actually want to help your opponent beat you by having something adjusted in your character's toolset?

Not me. Fuck that shit. If they want to learn, learn the MU and frame data.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Not me. Fuck that shit. If they want to learn, learn the MU and frame data.

Exactly bro. Like if I was to talk like this in the GAFGC Facebook group, dudes would of laugh at me & call me out for it.

You guys are softer than babyshit.

 

[jmt]

Hell no. It isn't a run cancel so it shouldn't cost stamina.
Plus he needs it.

Insane thread.

 

[Zoidberg747]

But they can backdash it!

No they can't lol

The so what is that there's no mixup for the wakeup like other characters have. Also that's no necessarily true what you said. A lot of mid hitting wakeups have enough pushback or low enough BA that they are only checked with a poke or fast special and are not FCP by most of the cast.

So the following characters have a 50/50 on wakeup:
Tanya
Alien
War God Kotal

That is 7 variations out of like 80. That is in no way the norm lol.

As for the second claim of wakeups that cannot be FCP by most of the cast on block:
Demolition Sonya
Kung Jin
Bartitsu BRC
Kano
Liu Kang
Ferra Torr

That is still only about 10% of the variations in this game.

My point here is that Leatherface's wakeups are average in this game. Almost no one has a 50/50 mixup on wakeup and very few have wakeups that you cannot FCP on block.

 

[Colest]

As for the second claim of wakeups that cannot be FCP by most of the cast on block:
Demolition Sonya
Kung Jin
Bartitsu BRC
Kano
Liu Kang
Ferra Torr

That is still only about 10% of the variations in this game.

My point here is that Leatherface's wakeups are average in this game. Almost no one has a 50/50 mixup on wakeup and very few have wakeups that you cannot FCP on block.

And Sub Zero
And Ermac
And Goro
And Jax
And Jason

My break is over and I'm sure there's lots more but I advise you look at the frame data a little more.

 

[ll Nooby ll]

No they can't lol



So the following characters have a 50/50 on wakeup:
Tanya
Alien
War God Kotal

That is 7 variations out of like 80. That is in no way the norm lol.

As for the second claim of wakeups that cannot be FCP by most of the cast on block:
Demolition Sonya
Kung Jin
Bartitsu BRC
Kano
Liu Kang
Ferra Torr

That is still only about 10% of the variations in this game.

My point here is that Leatherface's wakeups are average in this game. Almost no one has a 50/50 mixup on wakeup and very few have wakeups that you cannot FCP on block.

Could you show me a video of F2~BS4 not being backdash-able? I haven't been able to do this and have always believe that it could be backdashed.

 

[Zoidberg747]

And Sub Zero
And Ermac
And Goro
And Jax
And Jason

My break is over and I'm sure there's lots more but I advise you look at the frame data a little more.

Sub has no safe wakeups
Ermac and Goro I forgot about
Jax's dash punch is -7. Hard to punish but still possible.
I could've sworn Jason didnt have any either.

Even if all those are right that's still only a 4th of the cast. Most characters in this game get punished if their wakeups are read. And the ones that don't really don't have nearly as good tools as LF does so its a moot point. He would be broke if he had a safe wakeup.

Could you show me a video of F2~BS4 not being backdash-able? I haven't been able to do this and have always believe that it could be backdashed.

I must've tested it on someone with a bad backdash cause you're right. I retract my statement about reducing hitstun of F2 then because if you can beat it without a bar then its not that bad.

Still broke in the corner though lol.

 

[Ghosty1981]

Sub has no safe wakeups
Ermac and Goro I forgot about
Jax's dash punch is -7. Hard to punish but still possible.
I could've sworn Jason didnt have any either.

Even if all those are right that's still only a 4th of the cast. Most characters in this game get punished if their wakeups are read. And the ones that don't really don't have nearly as good tools as LF does so its a moot point. He would be broke if he had a safe wakeup.



I must've tested it on someone with a bad backdash cause you're right. I retract my statement about reducing hitstun of F2 then because if you can beat it without a bar then its not that bad.

Still broke in the corner though lol.

Had someone backdash out of it today. After that I used BF4c to fake them out into another full combo.

It's beatable, but BF4c turns it into a dangerous read. Leatherface seems to have some unique and interesting tools.

 

[juicepouch]

http://testyourmight.com/threads/xl-killer-leatherface-discussion-thread.58977/page-2

thank you, homie

 

[Colest]

Sub has no safe wakeups
Ermac and Goro I forgot about
Jax's dash punch is -7. Hard to punish but still possible.
I could've sworn Jason didnt have any either.

Even if all those are right that's still only a 4th of the cast. Most characters in this game get punished if their wakeups are read. And the ones that don't really don't have nearly as good tools as LF does so its a moot point. He would be broke if he had a safe wakeup.



I must've tested it on someone with a bad backdash cause you're right. I retract my statement about reducing hitstun of F2 then because if you can beat it without a bar then its not that bad.

Still broke in the corner though lol.

I feel like you misread my original comment.

FCP by most of the cast.

So when we look at Subs. Ice Burst's pushback helps against characters without quick advancing strings that are cancelable or popup. That segments a large portion. Slide low profiles most high punishes so slide beats characters without a mid starting string with startup less than 8 that are again cancelable or popup, again segmenting a large portion of the cast.

If we look at armored wakeups in that light rather than "if one character can punish X move then X move is FCP" it hightlights character strengths and matchup advantages. My original comment was to highlight that wakeups and playing on the defensive are not strengths of LF and thus exploiting that or limiting his strengths in pressure or scaring people with mixups shows he's relatively a balanced character (from what I've seen) overall.

 

[Zoidberg747]

My original comment was to highlight that wakeups and playing on the defensive are not strengths of LF and thus exploiting that or limiting his strengths in pressure or scaring people with mixups shows he's relatively a balanced character (from what I've seen) overall.

I would agree that they wouldn't be strengths, but I don't think I'd consider them a huge weakness either. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[dennycascade]

Sub has no safe wakeups
Ermac and Goro I forgot about
Jax's dash punch is -7. Hard to punish but still possible.
I could've sworn Jason didnt have any either.

Even if all those are right that's still only a 4th of the cast. Most characters in this game get punished if their wakeups are read. And the ones that don't really don't have nearly as good tools as LF does so its a moot point. He would be broke if he had a safe wakeup.



I must've tested it on someone with a bad backdash cause you're right. I retract my statement about reducing hitstun of F2 then because if you can beat it without a bar then its not that bad.

Still broke in the corner though lol.

Still can be back dashed though, in fact it's even easier to punish since you're right next to him after.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Still can be back dashed though, in fact it's even easier to punish since you're right next to him after.

That seems like a really big risk if you're cornered though because then if I just delay the BS4 a little bit the invincibility frames will be gone and you'll get caught anyway. Or I can BS4c and possibly punish the recovery of some backdashes.

 

[KeyserSoze]

you get that this a phrase only said satirically right

Well, actually, originally it wasn't sarcastic at all. It grew out of a blatant overuse of a serious contention (like most sarcastic phrases)

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Well, actually, originally it wasn't sarcastic at all. It grew out of a blatant overuse of a serious contention (like most sarcastic phrases)

are you sure? damn i never knew of a time when it was used anything but sarcastically

 

[KeyserSoze]

are you sure?

Yes.

But, the irony is that I was mostly being sarcastic about leatherface, because i don't think he actually "needs" it. Lol.

 

[Zoidberg747]

are you sure? damn i never knew of a time when it was used anything but sarcastically

Maxter was the one who created the phrase when describing MK9 Cyrax and possible nerfs. He was 100% serious.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Maxter was the one who created the phrase when describing MK9 Cyrax and possible nerfs. He was 100% serious.

ah haha got it

so that means literallly every single time since it has been used either ironically or by other idiots

 

[KeyserSoze]

ah haha got it

so that means literallly every single time since it has been used either ironically or by other idiots

Idk, I can remember seeing it used seriously on numerous occasions back in the mk9 days

 

[Stevie Steelz]

No, it should not cost stamina. None of his attacks are safe on block, plus he doesn't even have any low starters unlike all of the characters you've mentioned. He needs something.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Idk, I can remember seeing it used seriously on numerous occasions back in the mk9 days

yep, that places them in the second category

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

The more days go by, the more people get used to my tricks, the better I feel about this being a no.
When I proposed this question, I wasn't convinced one way or another; I was just trying to plan ahead to keep this wonderful brute from being wrongly changed.
But no...no, I think the no's will have it with this one.

If it were up to me, the fixing F2 idea sounds like the best way to go about quieting the eventual bitching to come, because it will and we all know this. But debate and sound logic are the sane tools with which to keep our insane companion strong.

Keep the talk flowing, boys.

 

[Zoidberg747]

No, it should not cost stamina. None of his attacks are safe on block, plus he doesn't even have any low starters unlike all of the characters you've mentioned. He needs something.

F3 is a low starter, just an FYI.

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

He has a 6f poke and 2 armored reversals, one being low and one being OH. Unless Jax has infinite blockstring pressure you wont be able to pressure him forever.

And when its his turn to pressure you he has safe pressure that builds tons of meter, and whenever he lands any combo he can end it with a cancel that leaves him + enough to guarantee even more pressure. I also think saying his neutral is bad is a lie. His f12 works fine if you space it right because the 2nd hit is Mid and comes out fast, so you can't just low profile him.

Killer is a damn good character and he most likely needs normalizations. I say that as someone who mains LF lol.



It is fuzzyable but so what? In that case they would be reading you are going to wakeup in the first place. There are very few wakeups that are safe on block in the game. Most of the time if your opponent baits the wakeup, you get punished. He doesn't have the best wakeups but they aren't subpar either.

nope dead wrong.

I really like the part where u say 'what u said about his neutral game is a lie bc if u space f12 out perfect it works great bc 2 is a mid' Very funny stuff. Keep it coming.

 

[Bomborge]

nope dead wrong.

I really like the part where u say 'what u said about his neutral game is a lie bc if u space f12 out perfect it works great bc 2 is a mid' Very funny stuff. Keep it coming.

Very informative post. Thank you very much, you have enlightened me.