General/Other - Killer XL Killer Leatherface Discussion Thread

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

UMMmmm....it seems faster than this....well...then you are right. Damn, so it´s not viable as a punisher move

its alright, f1 is a godlike punisher

 

[dennycascade]

D3/D1 into BS1 is a really, really good tool. I've gotten so many full combos from this and it really gets them scared to poke back. As far as I can tell it can only be interrupted with armor.
EDIT: d3 into BS1 can be interrupted by a 7 frame reversal, but d1 into bs1 can't. Start using this!

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

heads up, mb bs2, if the last hit is at max range, the mb hit will whiff.

 

[ll Nooby ll]

Just to let you guys know, F12~BS4c is -11 on block.

Even though most of his BS cancels are negative on block, I still think they're pretty good since if they try to punish, you can BS1 for a full combo.

What do you guys think?

 

[Mighty Durpyena]

The safest BS Cancel on block is B1

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

I just want to confirm, if you do BS1 but he simply cranks the chainsaw instead of doing the bs1, it's because I input it too slow correct? Just want to make sure their aren't any conditions but I'm pretty sure I'm right, thanks.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

I just want to confirm, if you do BS1 but he simply cranks the chainsaw instead of doing the bs1, it's because I input it too slow correct? Just want to make sure their aren't any conditions but I'm pretty sure I'm right, thanks.

Actually, that is what happens when you input it too fast.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Oh that's actually reassuring thanks

 

[ll Nooby ll]

So I had some free time and got all Normals into Berserker Stance cancel frame data. There could be some human error involved. But consider these number accurate give or take a frame.

Berserker Stance Cancels

4 Cancel:

1= -14
12= -12
B1= approx -4
F1= -19
F12= -11
D1= -23 (D1~BS1 approx 5f reversals trade)
2= -16
22= -13
F2= -13
F21= -18
3= -20 (3~BS1 approx 2f reversals trade)
F3= -24 (F3~BS1 approx 6f reversals trade)
D3= -27 (D3~BS1 9f reversals trade)
4= -12
F4= -12
D4= -31 (D4~BS1 13f reversals trade)


1 Cancel
B1= approx -2
F2= -11
D4= -29

Any questions feel free to ask. Or if you have any corrections to the list.

 

[dennycascade]

So I had some free time and got all Normals into Berserker Stance cancel frame data. There could be some human error involved. But consider these number accurate give or take a frame.

Berserker Stance Cancels

4 Cancel:

1= -14
12= -12
B1= approx -4
F1= -19
F12= -11
D1= -23 (D1~BS1 approx 5f reversals trade)
2= -16
22= -13
F2= -13
F21= -18
3= -20 (3~BS1 approx 2f reversals trade)
F3= -24 (F3~BS1 approx 6f reversals trade)
D3= -27 (D3~BS1 9f reversals trade)
4= -12
F4= -12
D4= -31 (D4~BS1 13f reversals trade)


1 Cancel
B1= approx -2
F2= -11
D4= -29

Any questions feel free to ask. Or if you have any corrections to the list.

These are awesome! The time you put into finding these is really appreciated. Now what I'm really interested in finding out is bs4 cancels on hit. So far, f2 seems the most plus to me.

 

[ll Nooby ll]

These are awesome! The time you put into finding these is really appreciated. Now what I'm really interested in finding out is bs4 cancels on hit. So far, f2 seems the most plus to me.

Thank you!
It believe it would be pretty hard to find the on hit frame data since you can't set the bot to reversal out of hitstun.

But I have noticed that F2 has a lot of hitstun when cancelled. Like you get a near guaranteed BS4 after F2, and the only reliable way out is to backdash since you only have like a 1 or 2 frame window to armor. This sets up a mind game when you end combos with F2~BS cause you can late cancel BS4 and do F12 to catch their backdash and get another full combo.

 

[dennycascade]

Thank you!
It believe it would be pretty hard to find the on hit frame data since you can't set the bot to reversal out of hitstun.

But I have noticed that F2 has a lot of hitstun when cancelled. Like you get a near guaranteed BS4 after F2, and the only reliable way out is to backdash since you only have like a 1 or 2 frame window to armor. This sets up a mind game when you end combos with F2~BS cause you can late cancel BS4 and do F12 to catch their backdash and get another full combo.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. If you cancel the BS4 with proper timing you can jail almost anything, their backdash won't even start up.

 

[Ghosty1981]

Newbie question, here. What is the benefit of using F2xxBSc on hit? If you hit with F2 it seems that you're already heading into Killer's strongest combos, so what is the advantage? Is it simply for meter gain, or some other setup that I don't understand?

I can understand fake-out uses for stance cancel in other strings, but F2 on hit seems to already be the strongest position for easy high damage combos.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Newbie question, here. What is the benefit of using F2xxBSc on hit? If you hit with F2 it seems that you're already heading into Killer's strongest combos, so what is the advantage? Is it simply for meter gain, or some other setup that I don't understand?

I can understand fake-out uses for stance cancel in other strings, but F2 on hit seems to already be the strongest position for easy high damage combos.

Mind games mostly, BS4 is pretty reactable, so its dangerous to use early against an opponent that likes to push buttons. It can be hard to do, as it takes execution, but throwing out the BS4, cancelling, and going into (I highly recommend a throw, as you can corpse hop, go in for the mixup/vortex) more pressure, can condition them to keep blocking when they see the next BS4. I like to do f12xxbs1/4 (either one is fine, but be careful with 1 as you may hit them and pick them up), cancel, then go into whatever pressure you like.

 

[ll Nooby ll]

Newbie question, here. What is the benefit of using F2xxBSc on hit? If you hit with F2 it seems that you're already heading into Killer's strongest combos, so what is the advantage? Is it simply for meter gain, or some other setup that I don't understand?

I can understand fake-out uses for stance cancel in other strings, but F2 on hit seems to already be the strongest position for easy high damage combos.

Your right, I believe that this move (and F1) are kinda useless in the neutral due to their slow start and can only really work on a read. And in neutral you should hit confirm with BS1 for a full combo.

I should have been more clear, but what I meant was ending combos with F2~BS.

Example:
F12~BS1 EX, NJP, 12~Sparks, F2~BS -- 34% (or 48% if you land the BS4 reset)

This can open up the mixup of the BS4 reset or BS4 late cancel F12 for another full combo.

 

[Ghosty1981]

Your right, I believe that this move (and F1) are kinda useless in the neutral due to their slow start and can only really work on a read. And in neutral you should hit confirm with BS1 for a full combo.

I should have been more clear, but what I meant was ending combos with F2~BS.

Example:
F12~BS1 EX, NJP, 12~Sparks, F2~BS -- 34% (or 48% if you land the BS4 reset)

This can open up the mixup of the BS4 reset or BS4 late cancel F12 for another full combo.

Ahhh, thanks! This makes a lot of sense to me. Basically setting up a multi-option follow-up and forcing them to make a read after the combo.

 

[Ghosty1981]

Mind games mostly, BS4 is pretty reactable, so its dangerous to use early against an opponent that likes to push buttons. It can be hard to do, as it takes execution, but throwing out the BS4, cancelling, and going into (I highly recommend a throw, as you can corpse hop, go in for the mixup/vortex) more pressure, can condition them to keep blocking when they see the next BS4. I like to do f12xxbs1/4 (either one is fine, but be careful with 1 as you may hit them and pick them up), cancel, then go into whatever pressure you like.

I can definitely see the use of BS4c for mind games and pressure. I was just confused specifically with F2(hit) BS4c since the optimal move with F2 on hit would seem to be just finishing a string and nailing them for nearly 50% damage. The clarification that it was for ending combos makes perfect sense to me, though.

I like the possible mindgames that BS4c offers, just need to practice the execution. As it stands my only concern is that anyone that knows Killer would just react to BS4 with their fastest move, since that's the only way to stop a full BS4 anyway; perhaps a well timed cancel into the far-reaching F12 will beat out their pokes?

Something I will have to practice!

 

[dennycascade]

Newbie question, here. What is the benefit of using F2xxBSc on hit? If you hit with F2 it seems that you're already heading into Killer's strongest combos, so what is the advantage? Is it simply for meter gain, or some other setup that I don't understand?

I can understand fake-out uses for stance cancel in other strings, but F2 on hit seems to already be the strongest position for easy high damage combos.

It's to end combos after you've already restood them with chain sparks. F2 into berserk stance 4 is hard to escape, their only options are backdash or armor which you can blow them up for trying because when the BS4 is canceled you're still plus enough to jail almost anything else. So it's up to them making a read, 14% or full combo lol. Really good way to end combos and stay on the offensive.

 

[Ghosty1981]

It's to end combos after you've already restood them with chain sparks. F2 into berserk stance 4 is hard to escape, their only options are backdash or armor which you can blow them up for trying because when the BS4 is canceled you're still plus enough to jail almost anything else. So it's up to them making a read, 14% or full combo lol. Really good way to end combos and stay on the offensive.

Yeah, been testing out and I didn't realize that F2 could set up this kind of crazy at the end of combos. With F2xxBS4 or BS4c you only need to land two combos a match, abd with the F12 as a punisher that's ridiculous.

 

[Fresh900]

You guys know of any YT links for a good combo guide for the Killer variation?

 

[John Grizzly]

So...I recently watched some matches from GunShow playing some Killer. He was cancelling in and out of the Berzerker stance insanely fast. I know hitting 3 exits the stance, but that's definitely not all he was doing.

Does anyone know how to cancel that stance so quickly? See the videos below. GunShow's Killer is pretty amazing.

 

[dennycascade]

So...I recently watched some matches from GunShow playing some Killer. He was cancelling in and out of the Berzerker stance insanely fast. I know hitting 3 exits the stance, but that's definitely not all he was doing.

Does anyone know how to cancel that stance so quickly? See the videos below. GunShow's Killer is pretty amazing.

He went into berserk stance 4 and canceled it.

 

[Ghosty1981]

So...I recently watched some matches from GunShow playing some Killer. He was cancelling in and out of the Berzerker stance insanely fast. I know hitting 3 exits the stance, but that's definitely not all he was doing.

Does anyone know how to cancel that stance so quickly? See the videos below. GunShow's Killer is pretty amazing.

So...I recently watched some matches from GunShow playing some Killer. He was cancelling in and out of the Berzerker stance insanely fast. I know hitting 3 exits the stance, but that's definitely not all he was doing.

Does anyone know how to cancel that stance so quickly? See the videos below. GunShow's Killer is pretty amazing.

BS43 or BS13

The BS1 cancel is tricky up close, however, as Leatherface advances a bit before cancelling, and is likely to hit the opponent.

 

[John Grizzly]

Thanks, guys. I kinda thought that's what was happening but I still wasn't doing it as fast as he was in that video. And as you said, doing BS1 and trying to cancel that up close wasn't working out too well, because the saw was still hitting them. I'll give the 4 out of BS a shot.

 

[Awsumpossm]

Some little tidbits I've learned while playing leatherface:

1) Ending a match with MB BS1 ends the match immediately after the bounce and does not allow for a brutality finish. This is likely a bug.

2) F21D2 has extremely slow startup, but you can actually combo into it off a jip if you delay the jip to hit at the last possible moment.

3) After BD4, you can pseudo-reset your opponent by going for jip into F21 BS cancel shenanigans. The F2 will not connect in the combo as it's startup is too slow

4) As someone has already stated, low pokes in BS1 is amazing against players who refuse to respect your buttons and try to low profile everything.

5) When starting a game against Erron Black, Erron will say "It's nice to meet a fellow Texan." NRS plz.