This Is A Hunt I've Longed For: Cheetah General Discussion

[GetEmStretch]

I'm in the market for a secondary that handles zoners better than Harley. Cheetah's got a lot of mobility and a divekick, and I heard she plays like Shazam, who I loved. Do her tools allow her to handle fate, ds, and firestorm reasonably well?

Nope.

Played Kevodaman earlier this week against his Deadshot. Pounce useless = block then punished. His gunshots recover faster than you landing and reacting. I walked in most of the time but misjudged a few shots. MB roll = semi useful to get in but then have to guess if you'll eat overhead or low. Wrong guess and you're back full screen.

However should you ever get in, you have options. But this goes for most of the other cast as well. The difference is you have to get to at least B2 sweep range.

Edit: She does play similar to Shazam though. Also faces similar issues against zoners. But once you're in, let the good times roll

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I'm at work but whats the hit advantage of primal rage Db2?. I'm assuming it's in the 20s because I'm able to do a Lunge and recover in time to block. I do know it has a 1 frame startup. But I don't waste a bar on the MB version of primal rage unless I'm in the corner because hit advantage was only like 4 or 5 iirc.

Edit: hit advantage is double what I anticipated...40 to be exact! So how again is this NOT optimal? @Azular

This does more damage, activates trait mid combo, and leaves you at +40 hit advantage. You can double dash to be at meaty hook grab range, pressure, or build meter by doing far Blood Lunge into jump 1 which actually crosses up.

The only thing I see that's not advantageous is if they choose to tech roll. Then you'll want to do a mid Blood Lunge instead, which still gives you time to block if they wakeup.

Discuss...

It's only that plus on hit when it hits grounded oponents, after a juggle it has less than half that advantage and I mean the set-up is ok to catch people off guard tech rolling or backdashing but if they tech roll they can still recover on time to anti air you anyway, if they don't tech roll they can just wake up with a D2 and hit you no no matter if you use the medium or far pounce so this is a gimmick IMO, now... Hitting a standing oponent with this into pounce is actually a bit better but she has some legit set-ups with her command grab ender so I think ending with primal rage is mostly to end rounds.

 

[Zionix]

Just something to slip in and maybe work towards future set-ups

 

[Zionix]

And another one !

 

[Zionix]

Ok so her predator pounce (air db2) has some solid oki options!

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Really wish I could watch TYM videos on my phone...

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Two things I've been experimenting with:

1) trying to always end with f23(throw) for the +37 standing reset. That leaves you within range for f3 to be a legit blockstring (they have to block it or get hit). Blocking it leaves you at +10 and usually in range for d3 or 12 (throw).

2) figuring out how to make f3 crossup on oki. I've gotten it to work a few times and it was still double-hitting. The spacing and timing just seems to be a little strict.

Seeing all this stuff about bow hard it is for her to get in on people. Really? She has a double-hitting half-screen launcher that is +10 on block. Why not use that to get in? They can't armor it and it can be canceled to bait the opponent. On oki, there is literally zero reason not to just mb.f3.

 

[Saboteur-6]

So wait I'm getting conflicting info. Can Cheetah get in against full screen zoning against Deadshot, Fate, Darkseid, Batman, etc?

If so, what's her main way to go about it?

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

So wait I'm getting conflicting info. Can Cheetah get in against full screen zoning against Deadshot, Fate, Darkseid, Batman, etc?

If so, what's her main way to go about it?

Hard reads with pounce, yolo F3's, D3's and dashes in the neutral and being very patient.

 

[Rip Torn]

Two things I've been experimenting with:

1) trying to always end with f23(throw) for the +37 standing reset. That leaves you within range for f3 to be a legit blockstring (they have to block it or get hit). Blocking it leaves you at +10 and usually in range for d3 or 12 (throw).

2) figuring out how to make f3 crossup on oki. I've gotten it to work a few times and it was still double-hitting. The spacing and timing just seems to be a little strict.

Seeing all this stuff about bow hard it is for her to get in on people. Really? She has a double-hitting half-screen launcher that is +10 on block. Why not use that to get in? They can't armor it and it can be canceled to bait the opponent. On oki, there is literally zero reason not to just mb.f3.

I got you bro:
https://testyourmight.com/threads/cheetah-f3-crossup-concept-and-setups.63985/

 

[Zoidberg747]

So wait I'm getting conflicting info. Can Cheetah get in against full screen zoning against Deadshot, Fate, Darkseid, Batman, etc?

If so, what's her main way to go about it?

What I usually do is walk/dash to around mid range and then MB F3 if they still try to keep throwing stuff out. You can also use pounce against mid hitting projectiles like fate's to low profile them and avoid the chip(you have to dash cancel the pounce though which can be tricky depending on how much they are changing up the timing of the projectiles). Plus with pounce you gain some meter while you're going in. Against characters with slower projectiles like Darkseid and Batman I prefer just duck walking and being patient.

 

[GetEmStretch]

So wait I'm getting conflicting info. Can Cheetah get in against full screen zoning against Deadshot, Fate, Darkseid, Batman, etc?

If so, what's her main way to go about it?

Against Deadshot has been my only problem...But again that is just MY problem.

Played a really decent Cyborg last night for over an hour, and had no issues. The only Dr Fates I've versed were in King of Hills, but weren't worthy to make a judgement call.

I have yet to play against a firestorm using Cheetah because I've always used Black Adam against them.

So if my previous response is giving you conflicting info regarding zoning, then I'm just clarifying Deadshot thus far has been the only Zoner I do not do well against using Cheetah.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I feel like REO's set against MIT shows how she deals with zoning really well:

It'd be different for others characters but the same concepts apply.

 

[Saboteur-6]

Damn that looks a lot less lopsided than what Wonder Woman has to go through. Looks like I need to switch to Cheetah. Thanks for that video Zoidberg.

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

She's definitely a lot less hamstrung by zoning than I'd feared. Lots of good options for getting in. The pounce cancels are the tricky part to master, and what I'm focusing on right now.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

It's not the zoners that scare me, it's the characters with insane normals, like Aquaman and Catwoman. Though I think her f3 will allow her to compete in those matchups.

 

[SmokeMaster]

Lunge cancel into Roll Escape is a really good tool to close space on zoners. May take a bar but you can close that gap and also keep the opponent guessing if you are going to Lunge or not.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I also think once people start getting more comfortable they will start punishing pounce way more than they are doing right now, but it's definitely a good tool to make them think twice before they throw out a projectile.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Is it already known that her Blood Lunge 3 will connect from full-screen, leaving you + on block? Not sure how plus, but standing 1 is a legit blockstring afterwards, allowing you 12(throw). So basically a full-screen command throw or plus-on-block shenanigans. I'm thinking it's +7 or 8 based on how tight it is to connect the standing 1 afterwards.

 

[SmokeMaster]

I also think once people start getting more comfortable they will start punishing pounce way more than they are doing right now, but it's definitely a good tool to make them think twice before they throw out a projectile.

I agree Pounce should be used to punish opponents mistakes. The way some are using it now is risky and I dare say highly reckless. Once folks start punishing it properly we will see it used very rarely. I guess for now it will fly.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I agree Pounce should be used to punish opponents mistakes. The way some are using it now is risky and I dare say highly reckless. Once folks start punishing it properly we will see it used very rarely. I guess for now it will fly.

Exactly, most people are holding it of no reason when you can actually punish her anytime, the only time she can use it safely is after a few knockdowns or her restand...

I think we will see it WAY less in a few months... Now, pounce cancel is actually pretty good since it negates chip damage while building meter against mid projectiles and I haven't explored roll after pounce but it seems like a good tool as well.

 

[SmokeMaster]

I wanted to post this up for those who may not know. Cheetah's F23~1+3 is arguably her most effective move. It's her only restand combo that generates a true 50/50 setup where the opponent must block either high or low. Used in the corner, it is devastating. However, it does have some practical uses midscreen.

As you can see after landing her F23 ~1+3 I'm able to dash up and perform an instant MB Pounce(air db2). I have the dummie set to stance bock while crouching.

In this video I demonstrate the 50/50 setup by using her B12xxdbMB.

If you notice I used 2 bars in both setups. It's not necessary, but having 2 bars makes the setup a lot harder for the opponent to guess which way to block. You can also see the benefits of both. While the first is the most damaging and can be better managed meter wise the other does less damage but leaves you in active trait at the cost of 2 meters. Hope this helps some of you Cheetah mains during the Hunt!!!

*Edit - Posted another video where I am holding down while the CPU demonstrates the overhead 50/50 setup. You can see how low and fast it can possibly come out.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I still don't get how you're supposed to connect b2 dbf1 consistently. Is there some trick or timing to it? I can't get it with input shortcuts on or off.

 

[SmokeMaster]

I still don't get how you're supposed to connect b2 dbf1 consistently. Is there some trick or timing to it? I can't get it with input shortcuts on or off.

Off of a raw B2 you have to be extremely fast. You should be finished with executing DBF1 when B2 hits the opponent. Now if you are juggling it becomes much easier after a J1 connects. How the combo system works while you are still airborne you can input B2 and when you land it will still come out. This will leave you more time to execute DBF1.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Off of a raw B2 you have to be extremely fast. You should be finished with executing DBF1 when B2 hits the opponent. Now if you are juggling it becomes much easier after a J1 connects. How the combo system works while you are still airborne you can input B2 and when you land it will still come out. This will leave you more time to execute DBF1.

Yeah that's what I'm finding. I'm mainly working on raw B2 since that seems to be her best whiff punisher and one of her best regular punishers. I think i'm starting to get the hang of it a little bit. Appreciate the help.

Edit: For anyone else struggling, I find it easier if you time the 1 press at the same moment that the B2 connects.