They must fix throws in this game

[Eldriken]

There aren't, he doesn't know what he's talking about, he means dash cancel throw or tick throws probably.

And kabal can. That's the biggest of his character strengths, OSing B1. You don't throw out B12 ever.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is this b1 OS?

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is this b1 OS?

I imagine he’s talking about b1 cancelled into amp saw. Otherwise I have no idea

 

[Eldriken]

I imagine he’s talking about b1 cancelled into amp saw. Otherwise I have no idea

Not even sure what that's about either. >_>

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Not even sure what that's about either. >_>

Oh you don’t do it? My fellow Kabal main, I’m about to change your life.

All it is is buffering an amp saw from b1 or f2. If the b1 or f2 is blocked, you’re only -1 (and they have to specifically react to duck it, I haven’t had anyone do it to me once, not even other Kabal’s or even people like VGY and Dizzy) and if it hits you get a full combo into 24-27% depending on if you’re close enough to connect 23, and more if you’re in the spins or want to spend the bar on amp db4.

Obviously if it whiffs you just get your button. Honestly I don’t even use it in neutral enough, its a really really strong option for what it does. Also works really well for meaties too since lets you convert on wakeup buttons and jumps while still being safe from rolls and delays.

 

[Eldriken]

Oh you don’t do it? My fellow Kabal main, I’m about to change your life.

All it is is buffering an amp saw from b1 or f2. If the b1 or f2 is blocked, you’re only -1 (and they have to specifically react to duck it, I haven’t had anyone do it to me once, not even other Kabal’s or even people like VGY and Dizzy) and if it hits you get a full combo into 24-27% depending on if you’re close enough to connect 23, and more if you’re in the spins or want to spend the bar on amp db4.

Obviously if it whiffs you just get your button. Honestly I don’t even use it in neutral enough, its a really really strong option for what it does. Also works really well for meaties too since lets you convert on wakeup buttons and jumps while still being safe from rolls and delays.

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Yeah, I did nothing like this. Ever. Time to fix that. Thank you, my friend!

 

[DeftMonk]

after reading this thread,I feel like if there is to be any rational discussion to be had about this game ever...someone needs to make a huge ass post explaining basic fighting game fundamentals and basic terms like shimmy, kara etc. Then go into the mk11 specific mechanics. The sticky this post 10x as big as these ads I recieve here right at the top.

Lots of people are complaining about things that just are due to being misinformed about how fighting games work. It’s like complaing curve balls are a silly mechanic unless baseball bats become 5x wider.

 

[NaCl man]

You are missing the point. You cannot tech throws on reaction in Street Fighter 5. You have to tech in advance which results in the same strike / throw / shimmy meta that also exists in Mortal Kombat 11. In fact, strike / throw / shimmy has been the meta since Street Fighter 2.

I am not certain why throws are an issue for anyone who has played fighting games before.

I dont think it's the strike/throw/shimmy meta is what @Eddy Wang talking about because you are 100% correct about that. Its that even if you make the correct read on a throw and tech it there is still a 50% chance you will be thrown and now they have the KB loaded for the next time. Where in sfv if you make the read you will tech it. This is why I think they are so strong. If is on wake up with no meter in sfv you can delay tech to beat meaty and throw but in mk11 I dont believe there is an option select like this and if there is it would only work if you guess right anyway. But the whole mashing d1 poke throw meta doesn't really exist there is defence to it but no 1 answer which I personally like. That is called depth

 

[NaCl man]

after reading this thread,I feel like if there is to be any rational discussion to be had about this game ever...someone needs to make a huge ass post explaining basic fighting game fundamentals and basic terms like shimmy, kara etc. Then go into the mk11 specific mechanics. The sticky this post 10x as big as these ads I recieve here right at the top.

Lots of people are complaining about things that just are due to being misinformed about how fighting games work. It’s like complaing curve balls are a silly mechanic unless baseball bats become 5x wider.

This is a great idea

 

[Qwark28]

I mean as a kabal main idk about biggest strength, but it is strong, certainly. However good players can still deal with it well, its not infallible. Also nobody properly deals with b1, he can only cancel in mean streak(and mean streak isn’t that great as it is) and b1 cancelled into amp saw can be ducked.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is this b1 OS?

The basic hit OS.

do B1 and delay the 2, it will only come out on hit or block, but not on whiff.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

The basic hit OS.

do B1 and delay the 2, it will only come out on hit or block, but not on whiff.

I haven’t heard of this at all. Moreover I haven’t saw anyone doing this either. If this exists then I don’t see why other high level players whiff strings at all. Have you got any proof of this?

 

[Qwark28]

I haven’t heard of this at all. Moreover I haven’t saw anyone doing this either. If this exists then I don’t see why other high level players whiff strings at all. Have you got any proof of this?

Search twitter or TYM. There was literally an entire scandal around it how it would destroy the game and people would master it and never whiff anything again a couple months after the game's release. It's been in every single MK.

If you don't want to search, go do it in practice mode. It's not a one size fits all timing.

 

[Kenshi-Keanu-Kool]

Bro, always the same absurd words.. go practice, lab, improve your skill, try to adapt... okay i already did. i already spend more than 1400 hours to play MK11. have we met and played before? absolutely not, then what are you talking about, you big mouth parrot? Always missing the real point that i am trying to explain. Okay there is a poke system which is almost nobody likes, only mashers loves.. pokes are something like HELP button to them i suppose.. is there anyone who like pokes? you can always see a thread about throws or breakaway or wakeup system. how fix, how to deal. right? These kind of threads are like the forum routine for months in here.. yes those stupid things are sadly the parts of the meta of MK11 and they are fucking boring okay. don't miss the point again, i am not saying mk11 is completely fucking boring. Pokes, throws, fatal blows,, those things are too simple and boring things. they doesn't deserve to be the big part of any fighting games.. There was throws, pokes or super moves called x-rays in the older games. but with not that much active role in the meta.. People trying to go for throws, and you know why? cos most of the characters have krushing blow throws.. and i totally understand those players cos this is mk11 and it's rules.. if you can guess it is easy to punish those throw attempts. crouch without block is enough, simple is that. even d2 is enough. don't need to be a big brain right? MK11 offers a lot of good things.. graphics, customization, good training mode, not that bad netcode and online.. but flashy gameplay is not one of them.. yes MKX and MK9 were hella broken games, but offers a lot of funny gameplay wise than MK11.. dealing with throws or free try fatal blows, or the fucking random krushing blows, or poke mashing absurdism are not that much fun. I am still enjoying MK11 cos i have found some good players to play longsets. but imagine that you are a prisoner in ranked or kasual. if so you have to deal with all those '' i have no idea what i am doing right now, but i can win by some chances on my side, let's try. Begin, poke, poke, throws, ooo, now it is fatal blow time, i am about to die. '' kind of players.

ILOL I agree wth you bro RELAX . iM ONE OF the most D1 Haters here . i told you i was kidding .
D1s and d3s should be neutral on block . Problem solved .

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Search twitter or TYM. There was literally an entire scandal around it how it would destroy the game and people would master it and never whiff anything again a couple months after the game's release. It's been in every single MK.

If you don't want to search, go do it in practice mode. It's not a one size fits all timing.

Oh that one. I mean that’s clearly not the case anyway, it’s not used at a high level, not to my knowledge. None of the top players I know are even using this.

 

[Qwark28]

Oh that one. I mean that’s clearly not the case anyway, it’s not used at a high level, not to my knowledge. None of the top players I know are even using this.

Nobody uses it 100% of the time, but normals like subs b1 and kabals b1 are literally baby lvl OSes and required to play the char on a competitive lvl, since both those moves are unpunishable on whiff on their own and very oppressive when played like that.

 

[Eddy Wang]

You are missing the point. You cannot tech throws on reaction in Street Fighter 5. You have to tech in advance which results in the same strike / throw / shimmy meta that also exists in Mortal Kombat 11. In fact, strike / throw / shimmy has been the meta since Street Fighter 2.

I am not certain why throws are an issue for anyone who has played fighting games before.

I'm well aware of the poke throw game because i played SF2 pretty well back in 1992 and there wasn't throw teching back then until SSFII where they added throw teching at some point.

in SFV still exists, but you can still tech more throws in SFV than you would tech in the entire MK11 life.
You just press throw and tech it and that's it.
In MK11 on top of guessing between strike and throw which most ppl do, you also have to guess which direction to tech which makes throws from MK11 slightly better compared to SFV, they don't have to guess forward and back throws, they just take a risk of teching a throw and if they guess right on it there is no other forward or backwards layer for it.

Also also, the entire poke throw and counter poke of this game is what makes both very strong depending of who presses the button first, some characters will d1 an offense that can only be stopped by throw when cornered.
Either way, there are situations where you have to strike or throw even in defense and in most cases that's the only answer, either you strike or throw, depending on which side of the spectrum you are.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, after playing this for a while and considering some characters do have better pokes and even better throw range than others, it's not fair to have rock or scissors in the game without paper, you need paper to beat rocks which to me should've definitely be short hops.

 

[Zviko]

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, after playing this for a while and considering some characters do have better pokes and even better throw range than others, it's not fair to have rock or scissors in the game without paper, you need paper to beat rocks which to me should've definitely be short hops.

But short hops would beat both pokes and throws so it's not a rock paper scissor either. Also what exactly is rocks and what is scissors considering poke vs throw is RNG.

 

[THTB]

Why isn't anybody talking about the meter system being the reason why the throw meta is op? Usually in MK your opponent builds roughly 15-20% bar of meter when you throw them, while you build nothing. The current throw meta would be fine if meter didn't consistently rebuild.

Meter has nothing to do with the power of throws.

 

[Tanya-Fan-28]

F*** THROWS...that is all. Lol

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Nobody uses it 100% of the time, but normals like subs b1 and kabals b1 are literally baby lvl OSes and required to play the char on a competitive lvl, since both those moves are unpunishable on whiff on their own and very oppressive when played like that.

Lol no they aren’t. Me and Curbo are both some of the best Kabal’s in the scene and I know neither of us use it. I see plenty of sub’s whiff b14 including high level ones. If I asked any of the competitive players I know none of them would say they’re using it.
Hell do you even use this OS?

 

[B. Shazzy]

Throws in Street Fighter 5 have five frames of start up and an 11 frame tech window. They hit mid and can lead to powerful okizeme in the corner. Just like in Mortal Kombat 11, the strike / throw meta is an integral aspect of the game and represents the most benign mix up of any NRS fighting game.



Results have been very consistent for this game. Nobody is placing top 8 in offline or online tournaments because of "random" throws. If results were consistent with Quan Chi's pre-patch vortex in Mortal Kombat X, they will be consistent with throws in Mortal Kombat 11.

Zero throws in sfv allow oki, even in the corner. Definition of oki being a throw or strike meaty situation allowed by the framedata. You can never not get jabbed out of a throw attempt with any character vs wny character for trying to loop throws. Def cant say the same for MK11.

In fact, Sfv corner throw situations are better situations to be in for the defensive party than most mk11 midscreen throw situations as there is no threat of full combo meaties into corner push for actual throw loops that are in mk11 only

 

[M2Dave]

Zero throws in sfv allow oki, even in the corner. Definition of oki being a throw or strike meaty situation allowed by the framedata. You can never not get jabbed out of a throw attempt with any character vs wny character for trying to loop throws. Def cant say the same for MK11.

Who was arguing about okizeme?

Most throws in Street Fighter 5 provide the same advantage that they always have, but Capcom continues increasing the distance after a throw, particularly in the corner, so that you are able to wake up jab the following throw. However, the jab still loses to meaty attacks and crush counters which, if represented properly and adequately, allow you to forward dash and throw or even jump, essentially resulting in the meta that exists in both games.

Urien, for example, crush counters 3-frame buttons on wake up after any throw anywhere on the screen. He can use this threat to forward dash and throw or jump, which is literally how Nemo's entire game plan.

 

[Eddy Wang]

But short hops would beat both pokes and throws so it's not a rock paper scissor either. Also what exactly is rocks and what is scissors considering poke vs throw is RNG.

You are taking it too literal, i meant the game needs a new layer that breaks away from attack or attack propaganda.

 

[Qwark28]

Lol no they aren’t. Me and Curbo are both some of the best Kabal’s in the scene and I know neither of us use it. I see plenty of sub’s whiff b14 including high level ones. If I asked any of the competitive players I know none of them would say they’re using it.
Hell do you even use this OS?

 

[MKF30]

after reading this thread,I feel like if there is to be any rational discussion to be had about this game ever...someone needs to make a huge ass post explaining basic fighting game fundamentals and basic terms like shimmy, kara etc. Then go into the mk11 specific mechanics. The sticky this post 10x as big as these ads I recieve here right at the top.

Lots of people are complaining about things that just are due to being misinformed about how fighting games work. It’s like complaing curve balls are a silly mechanic unless baseball bats become 5x wider.

Unless the pitcher of course has hidden muck for a better grip this giving them an advantage to throw curveballs better. Yeah, I played baseball way back. Fun times but yeah even now just look at the astro debacle.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Why are you showing me it lol I said already I know what one it is.