They must fix throws in this game

[Edmund]

I think I would feel a lot better about throws if they didn't do 14% AND if they didn't have KBs. It's wild to get a guaranteed 32% KB off a 50-50 that can't be broken.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

If you are losing to people like this, you need to get better at the game. I don't lose to people like this, and I'm no pro.

But also at a high level, look at how many throws are full combo punished. Sometimes it seems like it's more of them than not. Definitely between techs and full-out punishes, throws are far from guaranteed against good players.

Anyway, this is something people just aren't used to dealing with because there were so many broken ways to open your opponent up in MKX. But it's a valid part of fighting games and it's providing a reason to level up in dealing with them.

This guy is hilarious. Everytime time giving leeway to bullshit. Passion is elevated to another level here.
Somebody shits in front of your house: "Well you know, you need to get used to the scent...."

 

[Chernyy Volk]

I have no idea why people are complaining about throws. What is it that you can't deal with regarding throws? In a solid fighting game, you don't have 50/50s that lead to 35-50% damage like MKX did. In their place is a strike/throw mix up, much like what exists in Capcom and SNK fighting games.

If you are getting thrown a lot, it means you are defending a lot which means that you have poor offense. You need to swing the momentum back to you when the opportunity presents itself in the form of a telegraphed throw. Start a mix up of your own combining throws, fast advancing mids etc.

Stop worrying about what you think is too strong and start thinking about how you could have countered it. The game becomes a completely new experience once you do.

So you think people should be punished for having good defense? What is this? lol

 

[DeftMonk]

That noble raptor OS is for block/hit tho not whiffing.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

That noble raptor OS is for block/hit tho not whiffing.

Lol idk what point he was making then

 

[mastermalone]

So you think people should be punished for having good defense? What is this? lol

Damn right I do. If all you do is block, I'm going to mix your ass up with pokes into mids that lead to big damage or throws to break your guard. So I'll ask you, why would a tried and true part of fighting games piss you off? If it does, you should stop while you're ahead. What you just stated makes no sense in the context of fighting game basic meta. You also have the chance to break throws when you read your opponent correctly.

What is this nonsense from kids these days?

 

[Yousef]

When you talk about throws , do you mean this kind of players ?
He literally went to throws every single time he got his turn
Poke,throw
Poke,poke ,throw
Poke poke poke ,throw
Jump ...Poke x 64.....throw
Oh I'm in tight spot let's throw some random d2s and fetal blow , yay he won
The second match I got mad but had to deal with his BS so I blocked his pokes and tech his throws to win
Lol
Those 58% the ones I didnt have time to break or he mixed me up with ( forward / back throw )

 

[mastermalone]

When you talk about throws , do you mean this kind of players ?
He literally went to throws every single time he got his turn
Poke,throw
Poke,poke ,throw
Poke poke poke ,throw
Jump ...Poke x 64.....throw
Oh I'm in tight spot let's throw some random d2s and fetal blow , yay he won
The second match I got mad but had to deal with his BS so I blocked his pokes and tech his throws to win
Lol
Those 58% the ones I didnt have time to break or he mixed me up with ( forward / back throw )

Point is, regardless of his throw attempts you learned to defend and counter properly which allowed you to win the match. Throws are not the problem. Poor offense is. Your offense was solid. Combined with smart defense you were able to win.

Translation:
Throws are not the problem and you just proved it to everyone in this thread.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Who was arguing about okizeme?

Most throws in Street Fighter 5 provide the same advantage that they always have, but Capcom continues increasing the distance after a throw, particularly in the corner, so that you are able to wake up jab the following throw. However, the jab still loses to meaty attacks and crush counters which, if represented properly and adequately, allow you to forward dash and throw or even jump, essentially resulting in the meta that exists in both games.

Urien, for example, crush counters 3-frame buttons on wake up after any throw anywhere on the screen. He can use this threat to forward dash and throw or jump, which is literally how Nemo's entire game plan.

You see the game without understanding whats happening behind the scenes. Its all case by case but like I said the frame data off throws simply does not allow throw loops, ever, unlike MK11 period. Makes all the difference when reactions matters over reads. Why Sonicfox gets washed 30 million to 0 to Smug in this game even though he knows all the setplay and combos with his character. The details actually matter here.

Using the Urien example, dashing after his throw is punishable and so is jumping. How do you consider that oki? Im not talking about reading jumps or hoping Urien doesn’t dash cancel into an advancing mid. You simply can just react in sfv a game were 3f jabs start and recover before most jabs in MK11 barely become active.

I see the comparison made between dis game and sfv as an argument in Mk11s defense often. Sure the games are about strike/throw meta but that’s where the similarities end. A baby can ride a tricycle down the street, it is not the same thing as the baby driving a motorcycle on a highway, but they’re both on 3 wheels, you sit down to ride both, etc etc. That’s how silly it sounds to compare the two games. Massive information gap, nrs players argue through buzzwords/out of context quotes and sfv memes. To be fair, nrs players arent exclusive to it. I cant change your opinion, consider my post made just for posterity sake.

 

[TakeAChance]

As someone who has created a thread like this early into the life of MK11, the throws are fine.

They make sense mathematically, frame wise, it's all actually pretty tight.

What's stupid, is the jank hitboxes/hurtboxes that we will never see, nor will ever get truly corrected. Hence why Throws can whiff punish moves from the moon.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

As someone who has created a thread like this early into the life of MK11, the throws are fine.

They make sense mathematically, frame wise, it's all actually pretty tight.

What's stupid, is the jank hitboxes/hurtboxes that we will never see, nor will ever get truly corrected. Hence why Throws can whiff punish moves from the moon.

Lol throws whiff punishing moves extended hurtboxes is nothing new lol, every game has extended hurtboxes. Throws whiff punishing a whiffed poke is literally nothing outlandish, it’s completely standard and in line with other games when moves whiff punish extended hurtboxes. The only issue people have is that the throws appear to vacuum them in, but if a mid whiff punished a move it would be exactly the same.

 

[THTB]

So you think people should be punished for having good defense? What is this? lol

Let's make this clear.

Good defense goes beyond just being able and willing to block.

 

[spidey300]

Damn right I do. If all you do is block, I'm going to mix your ass up with pokes into mids that lead to big damage or throws to break your guard. So I'll ask you, why would a tried and true part of fighting games piss you off? If it does, you should stop while you're ahead. What you just stated makes no sense in the context of fighting game basic meta. You also have the chance to break throws when you read your opponent correctly.

What is this nonsense from kids these days?

Even in a crazy mix game like dbfz players with actual good defense like go1 doesn't get punished for having good defense. Throw techs in dbfz also aren't a 50/50

 

[THTB]

Even in a crazy mix game like dbfz players with actual good defense like go1 doesn't get punished for having good defense. Throw techs in dbfz also aren't a 50/50

You don't get punished for good defense in any game.

If you are getting punished for your defense...it's not as good as you claim.

 

[spidey300]

You don't get punished for good defense in any game.

If you are getting punished for your defense...it's not as good as you claim.

Ok but he said someone should get punished for good defense

 

[Inzzane_79]

Throws being able to whiffpunish from far away is nothing new. Just watch some SF4 Zangief vs Dhalsim Matches and you will see Gief SPDing Sim from half screen away because of a long limb hurtbox.

Does it look stupid? Yes it does but it´s nothing we haven´t already seen

 

[mastermalone]

Even in a crazy mix game like dbfz players with actual good defense like go1 doesn't get punished for having good defense. Throw techs in dbfz also aren't a 50/50

He gets punished when he makes a bad read. Make no mistake about that.

Translation:
His defense is not flawless, regardless of how well he was doing. You will crack eventually, if the offense is doing a good enough job to do so.

Why should anyone who is on defense be immune to counter-defensive measures?

 

[THTB]

Ok but he said someone should get punished for good defense

Malone's point is that if you're just going to block, and expect that to save you 100%, you will lose. Good defense goes beyond just blocking.

 

[spidey300]

He gets punished when he makes a bad read. Make no mistake about that.

Translation:
His defense is not flawless, regardless of how well he was doing. You will crack eventually, if the offense is doing a good enough job to do so.

Why should anyone who is on defense be immune to counter-defensive measures?

of course; everyone cracks but to say someone shouldn't be rewarded for good defense, is pretty flawed. it's about the connection from player to player and how godlike his defense actually is. i've seen times where he would hold his ground for a minute, see an opportunity to take back offense, and actually take it back

 

[spidey300]

Malone's point is that if you're just going to block, and expect that to save you 100%, you will lose. Good defense goes beyond just blocking.

no one's expecting that at least not in the vain of discussion about go1. the only nrs player(s) i've seen had strong defense to take back offense are like: ninjakilla, grr, and maybe dragon.

 

[mastermalone]

of course; everyone cracks but to say someone shouldn't be rewarded for good defense, is pretty flawed. it's about the connection from player to player and how godlike his defense actually is. i've seen times where he would hold his ground for a minute, see an opportunity to take back offense, and actually take it back

If you're referring to GO1's defense in DBFZ, it's going to be a little different now thanks to season 3's tick throw update. He will now have to read more than just attempts to open him up via overhead+assist shenanigans. He now needs to be on the lookout for tick throws (Dragon Rush), just like any other 2D fighting game. The reward for good defense is to quickly discover how to mount an offense when the opportunity presents itself. I have already explained this in earlier posts.

My statement is not flawed. The punishment for too much defending is ultimately defeat if you are not able to mount a counter offensive, especially in games where chip damage is a factor. You clearly outlined my original statement with your response too my earlier post.

Translation:
Defend, take back the offensive ASAP when presented with the opportunity.

Adding to this translation, you can't defend forever because time and chip damage could cost you the match.

The original culprit that started this whole, "I shouldn't be punished for good defense" was referring to the throws being too strong, to which I disagree. There is and should be a counter to every defense and offense in a fighting game. If said counters are clearly broken/unreasonable we should complain.

 

[mastermalone]

no one's expecting that at least not in the vain of discussion about go1. the only nrs player(s) i've seen had strong defense to take back offense are like: ninjakilla, grr, and maybe dragon.

We are saying the same thing here.

 

[spidey300]

If you're referring to GO1's defense in DBFZ, it's going to be a little different now thanks to season 3's tick throw update. He will now have to read more than just attempts to open him up via overhead+assist shenanigans. He now needs to be on the lookout for tick throws (Dragon Rush), just like any other 2D fighting game. The reward for good defense is to quickly discover how to mount an offense when the opportunity presents itself. I have already explained this in earlier posts.

My statement is not flawed. The punishment for too much defending is ultimately defeat if you are not able to mount a counter offensive, especially in games where chip damage is a factor. You clearly outlined my original statement with your response too my earlier post.

Translation:
Defend, take back the offensive ASAP when presented with the opportunity.

Adding to this translation, you can't defend forever because time and chip damage could cost you the match.

The original culprit that started this whole, "I shouldn't be punished for good defense" was referring to the throws being too strong, to which I disagree. There is and should be a counter to every defense and offense in a fighting game. If said counters are clearly broken/unreasonable we should complain.

I don't know if you actually played dbfz but the tick throws are fairly reactable on top of still being one button techs. Go1 would have to slightly bump up his defense and that's honestly pushing it. It's not that bad. A lot of people agree, including the pros, that throws in mk11 are exceptionally strong if not stronger than they've ever been in mk. Also time and chip in dbfz is a non issue. Mk11 sure. I'm sure someone like go1 could and has shown that he can easily seek out offensive opportunities while being on the defensive

 

[mastermalone]

I don't know if you actually played dbfz but the tick throws are fairly reactable on top of still being one button techs. Go1 would have to slightly bump up his defense and that's honestly pushing it. It's not that bad. A lot of people agree, including the pros, that throws in mk11 are exceptionally strong if not stronger than they've ever been in mk. Also time and chip in dbfz is a non issue. Mk11 sure. I'm sure someone like go1 could and has shown that he can easily seek out offensive opportunities while being on the defensive

Damn... Straight up said that you are not sure if I actually played DBFZ. I played it constantly for the last couple of years. Played local tournaments, played at work during lunch against other FGC players. I worked for a game company where most of us were avid fighting game players that actively go to locals and EVO for lots of different fighting games. We played EVERYTHING. We even play Fighting EX Layer. Am I GO1 level at DBFZ? No. But I know what I'm doing. Also, I am quite aware of DBFZ's lack of chip death but it is possible to lose via time out.

The area where I think MK11's throws should be nerfed is the 50/50 tech mechanic. It should be "press throw immediately after being thrown". I'm not a huge fan of that 50/50 tech button based on the direction of the throw. However, you can reasonably tech throws based on your position on the stage. If you are near the edge of the stage, chances are you will be thrown towards the edge. Tech accordingly based on the throw direction.

So I will ask you a question:

Are you losing to players that throw you? Are you allowing your opponents to get so many opportunities to close in on you that you consistently lose to multiple throws? If so, defense is an issue. Pro players definitely have a say in the matter but, they seem to be managing fine based on the tournament videos I watch.

Perhaps it's just me knowing how to deal with stuff like this. I'm from the early 90's era where throws were beyond anything we have today and for years were not techable. You learned to read your opponent and respond accordingly. When tech throws came on the scene with Super Street Fighter 2 turbo, things got easier, but you still took some damage even after teching the throw. Perhaps us older players have thicker skin from the stuff we put up with back in the day? Possibly.

 

[spidey300]

Damn... Straight up said that you are not sure if I actually played DBFZ. I played it constantly for the last couple of years. Played local tournaments, played at work during lunch against other FGC players. I worked for a game company where most of us were avid fighting game players that actively go to locals and EVO for lots of different fighting games. We played EVERYTHING. We even play Fighting EX Layer. Am I GO1 level at DBFZ? No. But I know what I'm doing. Also, I am quite aware of DBFZ's lack of chip death but it is possible to lose via time out.

The area where I think MK11's throws should be nerfed is the 50/50 tech mechanic. It should be "press throw immediately after being thrown". I'm not a huge fan of that 50/50 tech button based on the direction of the throw. However, you can reasonably tech throws based on your position on the stage. If you are near the edge of the stage, chances are you will be thrown towards the edge. Tech accordingly based on the throw direction.

So I will ask you a question:

Are you losing to players that throw you? Are you allowing your opponents to get so many opportunities to close in on you that you consistently lose to multiple throws? If so, defense is an issue. Pro players definitely have a say in the matter but, they seem to be managing fine based on the tournament videos I watch.

Perhaps it's just me knowing how to deal with stuff like this. I'm from the early 90's era where throws were beyond anything we have today and for years were not techable. You learned to read your opponent and respond accordingly. When tech throws came on the scene with Super Street Fighter 2 turbo, things got easier, but you still took some damage even after teching the throw. Perhaps us older players have thicker skin from the stuff we put up with back in the day? Possibly.

You're talking too much. I meant more just recent dbfz as in the season 3 patch with the tick throws because it's not as bad as it seems. I don't care about The strong strike throw meta or the damage. I do want to get rid of the 50/50 aspect like most others do. Well of course pros are fine with it. Didn't say they weren't. They just agree that the throw game in mk11 is strong