They must fix throws in this game

[Qwark28]

Well do attacks beat throws or not? And this hasn't just happened with d2's either, it's happened with any of the down normals. I don't think I'm being unreasonable when I say that throws should be limited to doing what they're designed to do: beat blocking.

Edit: and to avoid playing the stupid word games TYM is fond of, of course I'm not saying you should ONLY be thrown if you're blocking. But your high throw shouldn't basically pick me up off the ground when I'm kicking your legs or smth

No, they don't if you're doing a move with startup frames when a throw is already active.

What you're saying is that you want throws to not be mids and there's several arguments against, the biggest being that all those -4 pokes you all love so much would literally be uninterruptible when done back to back by most of the cast unless you downpoke yourself. And if you devolve the game into a scrubfest like that, gg.

The problem with a lot of your arguments ( all of you who have a problem with the throw system ) is that none of you seem to understand basic fighting game design, or have diverse fg backgrounds. You guys are trying to complain about 1 thing and end up being wrong about 3 other concepts at the same time. Throws beating normals in what game? Try every single one. Except, ironically, MK, where if you trade your opp gets knocked out of the throw.

 

[Tony at Home]

Also as someone who actually played a shit ton of Dead Or Alive ya'll are absolutely misusing the "strike/throw" mixup terminology.

The "strike/throw" part of the "grab/strike/throw" triangle occurs because most throws in DoA are not techable at all. You need explicit throw immunity which in this case means you commit to a strike. So if you're negative in DoA and Tina is about to play jenga with your spinal column you need to actually hit a strike button, which means you have to risk a counter hit by a strike instead which is convertable into a combo.

"Strike/throw" mixup basically means you have to commit to avoiding the throw before you can even see a throw happens. The only equivalent in MK are the "auto shimmies".

 

[THTB]

I see complaints of throws and wonder how many people who say that have played games where they actually are dumb AF...

SF2, earlier Tekken, 3D MK where you might actually DIE from a single throw, etc.

MK11...you get a hit for 14% (maybe more if a KB is loaded) and you risk a chin rock (or insert combo here) for even thinking about throwing at times.

I've seen so much crazier shit happen because of a throw game than what MK11 has ever offered, that if anything, the game's offensive meta should come off as uninteresting more than anything.

 

[xKMMx]

can anyone even tech on reaction? i mean, you gotta identify a 10f throw animation correctly, then let go of the slow block trigger and press the tech button while even making a read on the direction in another what, 3 frames? ive once read only the best players in the world can react to something as fast as 12 frames while the average player can reach up to 15.

I did it all the time and sometimes I'd pusposely give up a couple of grabs and mentally note the situation they used them in or what they threw out before the throws that got blocked so I can just go on hard reads the rest of the way instead of reaction. But many times I can tech on reaction. Using Jacqui I started making this a big part of my game plan against characters that tend to throw a lot like Kung Lao, Shao and Kotal and ESPECIALLY against those all too clever online Scorpion, Raiden and Cetrion scrubs that almost cant live with themselves unless they land at least one throw every ten seconds by teleporting into throw

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Anyone who has a problem with throws beating pokes doesn’t understand basic fg design lol. I wouldn’t be surprised if you guys are mashers too. If you’re pressing a button and losing to a throw, this ALWAYS means you either A. Pressed the button too slow, or B. Mashed while negative and got kounter hit. It would literally be the same as if a 10f mid kounter hit you instead but for some reason because its a throw people lose their minds. Additionally, if you don’t understand that throws beating pokes is integral to ensuring every character has a consistent answer to poke mashing (which I’ll bet all of you against this also hate) then that’s on you.

Also saying that throws should whiff because they visually don’t look like they should hit doesn’t make sense either. Following that logic, we shouldn’t have an issue with mids getting low profiled, because some of them visually shouldn’t hit pokes, but yet none of us like that. Again, its basic fg design.

 

[PapaRegadetho]

I have no issue with throws in this game, after a while you get a good feeling when your opponent is going to throw you. Even when they use kara throws. My biggest issue is characters abusing disjointed hurtboxes. I think its time for NRS to finally give weapons hurtboxes, so Kabal can start finally suck a big fat deek for recklessly throwing his dildo in neutral.

 

[Gooberking]

Also as someone who actually played a shit ton of Dead Or Alive ya'll are absolutely misusing the "strike/throw" mixup terminology.

The "strike/throw" part of the "grab/strike/throw" triangle occurs because most throws in DoA are not techable at all. You need explicit throw immunity which in this case means you commit to a strike. So if you're negative in DoA and Tina is about to play jenga with your spinal column you need to actually hit a strike button, which means you have to risk a counter hit by a strike instead which is convertable into a combo.

"Strike/throw" mixup basically means you have to commit to avoiding the throw before you can even see a throw happens. The only equivalent in MK are the "auto shimmies".

Any idea if there any kind of population left in DOA? I was super into it for about 2 months before MK11 came out. I keep thinking I'd like to play a lot of it, but figure the population is probably made of just the small hard core crowd at this point, and I'd be getting insta-bodied and wasting serious players' time.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

The only thing I don't like about throws is the game flips a coin to decide who wins when a throw and normal land on the same frame. Make it trade or make the throw win every time or the normal win every time, I don't care. I just hate randomness.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

then let go of the slow block trigger

I highly recommend putting block on R1, personally. It feels great.

 

[MKF30]

Good lord, some people really will defend every flaw in this game with their life won't they? Lol Hard to believe some people think that getting thrown in this game means you're not moving just blocking all the time. Hardly the case, it isn't always about blocking and not doing anything. Because if that's the case then they're the ones who don't get how the game is supposed to work....

Aside from throwing out rolls both back and forward(which I personally feel is stupid but I won't get into that too much since they planned that from day one) all I'm going to say on that is nrs got it eight with rolls in mk 9 and i2. Mk 11.....not as much.

Throws overpower offensive counter tactics in this game which is just dumb, like oh lets see...wake up fbs? Ducking as I see a throw which is a high attack is it not? mk 11 is the only mk game where I'm literally going into my ducking animation and magically get thrown. If I'm ducking and some goes for a throw up d1 them I get thrown....going into my poke animation as I'm ducked it gives it to the player throwing. Game also treats them like trades random at times. So dumb if it's going to be a mere roll of the dice is there a point to having a planned idea vs throws?

Has nothing to do with not understanding fg mechanics, most of us who have a problem with it just call it what it is stupid and not balanced but people who think this game is flawless will defend this mess of a game regardless of its issues at this point. Case and point, throws are too good in this game and this coming from someone who's been sent tons of hatemail over the years in every mk game online for throwing too much....

 

[SonicNinja3532]

I have no issue with throws in this game, after a while you get a good feeling when your opponent is going to throw you. Even when they use kara throws. My biggest issue is characters abusing disjointed hurtboxes. I think its time for NRS to finally give weapons hurtboxes, so Kabal can start finally suck a big fat deek for recklessly throwing his dildo in neutral.

You can kara throw in this game? Besides the one joker example I haven’t heard of this (unless you’re referring to dash up throw but idk if I’d classify that as the same)

Also kabal can’t throw b1 recklessly in neutral at all lol, that’s a straight path to getting punished. B12 doesn’t reach that far and has recovery out the ass, its really not hard to deal with. Who do you play?

 

[LMNYHappyDaze]

The real villain in this game is mid hitting command grabs. I can live with regular throws doing like 30% off a bad guess but command grabs that hit mid, that you have to short hop, is actually the dumbest thing in the game hands down. Someone justify that shit to me

 

[Eddy Wang]

Just make short hops d1 and low invincible on startup, this will encourage ppl to short hop more where they usually use d1/d3 to counter poke.
Which in turn the game stop being a poke/throw fest where you either poke or throw the meta needs a third layer which weakens both of these aspects.

 

[Zviko]

The real villain in this game is mid hitting command grabs. I can live with regular throws doing like 30% off a bad guess but command grabs that hit mid, that you have to short hop, is actually the dumbest thing in the game hands down. Someone justify that shit to me

Agree. This is what I hate the most in this game. At least make them non tickable.

 

[ABACABB]

Just make short hops d1 and low invincible on startup, this will encourage ppl to short hop more where they usually use d1/d3 to counter poke.
Which in turn the game stop being a poke/throw fest where you either poke or throw the meta needs a third layer which weakens both of these aspects.

Great idea , honestly at first when game was about to realease and I saw this new short hop mechanic I thought thats how it will work . To counter pokes. But sadly they f**** up this mechanic and you can get hit by d1 out of it . Its useless atm , once or twice in few K online matches I played someone did it to me on wakeup in corner .

 

[LMNYHappyDaze]

Agree. This is what I hate the most in this game. At least make them non tickable.

It’s OD asf. Being in stagger hell and not even able to micro duck on a read sucks. I end up eating almost every Kollector and Kotal command grab cuz my brain doesn’t make the switch that I gotta neutral jump. And my secondary NW has a high command, what’s up with that lol

 

[M2Dave]

in SF games you don't have to guess which direction they'll throw. You tech throws with another throws, despite being fast or not, but if you feel iffy about when someone is going to grab, you don't need to find out if it's a 1 or 2 tech though.

You are missing the point. You cannot tech throws on reaction in Street Fighter 5. You have to tech in advance which results in the same strike / throw / shimmy meta that also exists in Mortal Kombat 11. In fact, strike / throw / shimmy has been the meta since Street Fighter 2.

I am not certain why throws are an issue for anyone who has played fighting games before.

 

[Qwark28]

You can kara throw in this game? Besides the one joker example I haven’t heard of this (unless you’re referring to dash up throw but idk if I’d classify that as the same)

Also kabal can’t throw b1 recklessly in neutral at all lol, that’s a straight path to getting punished. B12 doesn’t reach that far and has recovery out the ass, its really not hard to deal with. Who do you play?

There aren't, he doesn't know what he's talking about, he means dash cancel throw or tick throws probably.

And kabal can. That's the biggest of his character strengths, OSing B1. You don't throw out B12 ever.

 

[Tony at Home]

Any idea if there any kind of population left in DOA? I was super into it for about 2 months before MK11 came out. I keep thinking I'd like to play a lot of it, but figure the population is probably made of just the small hard core crowd at this point, and I'd be getting insta-bodied and wasting serious players' time.

Unfortunately it's deader than elvis and the netcode is the worst of any fighting game on the market currently so even finding people on Discord to play with is difficult because even a "pretty ok" ping feels like playing underwater

It's otherwise an amazing fighting game. It's current state is just a tragedy...

 

[Kenshi-Keanu-Kool]

Absolutely agreed but sadly throw is not the only thing that i am sick or tired of. Don't even wanna talk about the rest cos we are talking about the most perfected and balanced game right. And i am fully lame. You are half lame cos you are making positive criticism. i am trying to win online matches without spending even a second in practice. Never want to learn the meta of this game because it is too hard to me. D1+Throw, D1,D1+Throw or D1,D1,D1+Throw. Only true masters can do this kind of master degree fighting game Moves. D3, 1,1,1 or d3 throw is the Ultimate level that you can reach in this game. As i said you need to be a pro to do that kind of very diffucult things.

Lab . Adapt . Learn the MU . If you cant deal with a simple D1 you should just give up .
im kidding bro . im just trying to look better than everyone else lol
i agree with everything you said . All fighting games they do that .
i call that the PAM . Panic Attack Mode lol
They call it poking or pressuring lol

 

[MKF30]

Unfortunately it's deader than elvis and the netcode is the worst of any fighting game on the market currently so even finding people on Discord to play with is difficult because even a "pretty ok" ping feels like playing underwater

It's otherwise an amazing fighting game. It's current state is just a tragedy...

Oh wow that dead huh? That explains why my bud swoozie retired from it. That game was rocking back on original xbox onto 360 days.

 

[Gooberking]

Unfortunately it's deader than elvis and the netcode is the worst of any fighting game on the market currently so even finding people on Discord to play with is difficult because even a "pretty ok" ping feels like playing underwater

It's otherwise an amazing fighting game. It's current state is just a tragedy...

Too bad. More people should give it a spin. I think it had the potential to be my #1 fave fg with a little more time on it.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

There aren't, he doesn't know what he's talking about, he means dash cancel throw or tick throws probably.

And kabal can. That's the biggest of his character strengths, OSing B1. You don't throw out B12 ever.

I mean as a kabal main idk about biggest strength, but it is strong, certainly. However good players can still deal with it well, its not infallible. Also nobody properly deals with b1, he can only cancel in mean streak(and mean streak isn’t that great as it is) and b1 cancelled into amp saw can be ducked.

 

[Metin]

Lab . Adapt . Learn the MU . If you cant deal with a simple D1 you should just give up .
im kidding bro . im just trying to look better than everyone else lol
i agree with everything you said . All fighting games they do that .
i call that the PAM . Panic Attack Mode lol
They call it poking or pressuring lol

Bro, always the same absurd words.. go practice, lab, improve your skill, try to adapt... okay i already did. i already spend more than 1400 hours to play MK11. have we met and played before? absolutely not, then what are you talking about, you big mouth parrot? Always missing the real point that i am trying to explain. Okay there is a poke system which is almost nobody likes, only mashers loves.. pokes are something like HELP button to them i suppose.. is there anyone who like pokes? you can always see a thread about throws or breakaway or wakeup system. how fix, how to deal. right? These kind of threads are like the forum routine for months in here.. yes those stupid things are sadly the parts of the meta of MK11 and they are fucking boring okay. don't miss the point again, i am not saying mk11 is completely fucking boring. Pokes, throws, fatal blows,, those things are too simple and boring things. they doesn't deserve to be the big part of any fighting games.. There was throws, pokes or super moves called x-rays in the older games. but with not that much active role in the meta.. People trying to go for throws, and you know why? cos most of the characters have krushing blow throws.. and i totally understand those players cos this is mk11 and it's rules.. if you can guess it is easy to punish those throw attempts. crouch without block is enough, simple is that. even d2 is enough. don't need to be a big brain right? MK11 offers a lot of good things.. graphics, customization, good training mode, not that bad netcode and online.. but flashy gameplay is not one of them.. yes MKX and MK9 were hella broken games, but offers a lot of funny gameplay wise than MK11.. dealing with throws or free try fatal blows, or the fucking random krushing blows, or poke mashing absurdism are not that much fun. I am still enjoying MK11 cos i have found some good players to play longsets. but imagine that you are a prisoner in ranked or kasual. if so you have to deal with all those '' i have no idea what i am doing right now, but i can win by some chances on my side, let's try. Begin, poke, poke, throws, ooo, now it is fatal blow time, i am about to die. '' kind of players.

 

[snort]

Why isn't anybody talking about the meter system being the reason why the throw meta is op? Usually in MK your opponent builds roughly 15-20% bar of meter when you throw them, while you build nothing. The current throw meta would be fine if meter didn't consistently rebuild.