The Slips and Hippo Show E4: The One About CEO and Twitter Toxicity

[Icefyre]

And FTR, NRS most likely had the lifespan of their games in mind, it's WB that most likely who didn't.

I would like to see a source for these kinds of comments. Honestly, this sounds like a lot of conjecture that you're trying to throw around as fact.

And you have just prove my point yet again, you and the rest of the complainer are still stuck in the MK9 and IJ1 days. The problem isn't with NRS or even WB here, it's you, no matter how you spin it. So like King Hippo said, yes it is a new age issue, if anything.

That's only if you look at it from the competitive aspect only, and even then it isn't entirely true. The cycle that NRS/WB has so far until now (as they've broke that cycle, mind you) didn't hurt the games, as that they kept improving their games with each new title, and while other companies like Capcom kept releasing every 6-10 years (I'm talking about actual sequels, not iterations like with SF4) only to keep shit on their communities with very little content and relying on the E-Sports money that they built from years past to keep carry them, NRS/WB have continued to improve in all aspects both for casuals, hardcore players and competitive once. And while NRS/WB might have not get the 100K views as EVO, they did get more sales which could only help more casuals and hardcore players to become competitive players while also increasing their spot on the E-Sports map without shoving it down people's throats (MKX is still the best selling fighting game of the decade by far with 5 Millions units across all platforms), and now, MVCI, a game that is less then a year old and have been released not 2, not 3, not 4, but 6 years after MVC3, isn't even gonna make it to the main lineup of EVO, but IJ2 is there.

Juggs isn't complaining, just making a point, and a fair one. I don't see the need to throw around "still stuck in the mk9 and ij1 days".

You've kind of made his point here with this long paragraph. You're not forced to play the new games, sure, but the sure is a lot of incentive to do so when you include things like patches, tournaments, pot bonuses, etc. The community plays a part too, don't get me wrong, but the simple fact that a new game is getting released so soon after the previous one is in of itself incentive to play the new one. Imagine for a second that Injustice wasn't a thing, and MKX was only coming out now. NRS community would have been playing mk9 up until now, because it would have still been the current game. Instead, people are naturally drawn to the "new and improved" version of MK when it gets released. Why continue to play mk9 when mkx comes out? Human nature wants to play the new one, for various reasons. If it gets released so soon after the previous one, why keep playing the old one? The two year cycle for a new game does play a part. If it were a 4 year cycle, the games would "last longer", so on and so forth. The business model provides incentive to switch, and takes advantage of human nature. Hence "conditioning".

I haven't played MCVI, but from what I've seen, isn't that game supposed to be pretty bad? It's not going to make it into a main lineup if nobody likes the game. That doesn't really help your point, as the issue there isn't with how long it took to release the game.

 

[Juggs]

I would like to see a source for these kinds of comments. Honestly, this sounds like a lot of conjecture that you're trying to throw around as fact.



Juggs isn't complaining, just making a point, and a fair one. I don't see the need to throw around "still stuck in the mk9 and ij1 days".

You've kind of made his point here with this long paragraph. You're not forced to play the new games, sure, but the sure is a lot of incentive to do so when you include things like patches, tournaments, pot bonuses, etc. The community plays a part too, don't get me wrong, but the simple fact that a new game is getting released so soon after the previous one is in of itself incentive to play the new one. Imagine for a second that Injustice wasn't a thing, and MKX was only coming out now. NRS community would have been playing mk9 up until now, because it would have still been the current game. Instead, people are naturally drawn to the "new and improved" version of MK when it gets released. Why continue to play mk9 when mkx comes out? Human nature wants to play the new one, for various reasons. If it gets released so soon after the previous one, why keep playing the old one? The two year cycle for a new game does play a part. If it were a 4 year cycle, the games would "last longer", so on and so forth. The business model provides incentive to switch, and takes advantage of human nature. Hence "conditioning".

I haven't played MCVI, but from what I've seen, isn't that game supposed to be pretty bad? It's not going to make it into a main lineup if nobody likes the game. That doesn't really help your point, as the issue there isn't with how long it took to release the game.

Yeah, I didn’t even play MK9 or Injustice 1 very much, idk why he keeps saying I’m “stuck in those days”, lol. I also dunno what that even means tbh.

 

[Vagrant]

So I want to speak on this thing with Sonic:

I know Slips sees this as Sonic being salty for losing or whatever, but the truth is that Sonic is just echoing things that a lot of people (and a lot of players on Twitter) have been saying for months.

For example, the things that I've never really liked about our games despite the many things I do like:
-Lots of hitscan projectiles
-Lots of full-screen auto-tracking attacks
-Strong projectiles that are also self-contained mixups
-Characters with strong zoning that are also oppressive in footsie range and up-close, and have incredibly easy or low-risk options to send opponents back to fullscreen

So it begs the question -- are people not allowed to have subjective opinions on gameplay styles and the meta? Where's the line between just being lazy/a complainer, and wishing that a few things were done a bit differently?

He was recking everyone with vanilla deadshot, adam, and batgirl before that. lol. But the balance of the game just happened to bother him enough to trash the game on twitter after an off tournament? Cmon now.

And yeah everyone is allowed an opinon on the game. I think I was just hoping that he'd have enough self control and self awareness of his own salt to not do the predictable salty thing on social media that only negatively affects the game and the community. It's not that big of a deal. Doesn't make him a bad guy but it's nice to hear other voices call bullshit.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

He was recking everyone with vanilla deadshot, adam, and batgirl before that. lol. But the balance of the game just happened to bother him enough to trash the game on twitter after an off tournament? Cmon now.

And yeah everyone is allowed an opinon on the game. I think I was just hoping that he'd have enough self control and self awareness of his own salt to not do the predictable salty thing on social media that only negatively affects the game and the community. It's not that big of a deal. Doesn't make him a bad guy but it's nice to hear other voices call bullshit.

Obviously only he can speak for himself, but I think there's an important point: just because you're doing what you need to do to win, doesn't mean that that's really what you *want* to be doing. And if you're presented with other options in other games, you're free to prefer something else once you've been exposed to it.

This goes for Dragon too, and other players like that -- it's a competitive game, and I have respect for anybody who goes out and does what they need to do to win a tournament. I also have appreciation for players who are able to sense what is going to be strongest in a given meta, early on, and make the most of it. KDZ did that early in Injustice for example. Foxy has done this.

But that doesn't mean that it's the playstyle you *love* and I think we should still allow players to be free about saying that, whether they've taken advantage or not.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

@Vagrant I'll give another example from a different game I also follow and play, Overwatch.

In Overwatch we recently got out of a flanker/diver meta where two of the strongest characters in the game at that time, Genji and Tracer, were also coincidentally two of the fastest and most high-execution characters in the entire game. This meta was super high-flying, with lots of risk-taking, daring and exciting plays, etc. Basically the game unfolded at high speed and there was little room for error. Fans like it, and players liked playing it, even if they'd complain now and then that some of the characters were too strong.

Blizzard recently countered this by adding heroes that are anti-dive. For example, there's a character named Brigitte that kind of walks around slowly behind her shield and then just shuts down flankers with her big-hitbox tools.

This has resulted in a meta where snipers hide behind tanks super far away and just potshot people until somebody gets picks or wins the fight. The snipers (Widow and Hanzo) are not any stronger than Genji and Tracer used to be, but the meta *feels* oppressive because a lot of people don't like playing it. Fans also don't like watching it nearly as much.

The teams are still going to do what they need to do to win. Right now that means loading up on double sniper comps and playing behind shields. But they're free to not *like* the meta even if they're going to practice and strategize around it anyway.

 

[M2Dave]

Imo if you're going to give a character zoning that's that strong, then they should probably be at disadvantage once you finally make your way in.

Zoning characters are at a disadvantage versus rush down characters up close. Bane has armor and a command throw, Catwoman has a half screen jumping attack and ambiguous cross ups, Robin has long range normal attacks and okizeme, The Flash has a rewarding 50/50 mix up, etc. On the other hand, characters like Atom and Dr. Fate have limited mix ups and/or damage output but can play keep away effectively. I see nothing wrong with these gameplay designs. They are balanced within the game. There is no Zod, and to be fair there is no Batgirl either, so Injustice 2 does not have a "zoning problem".

 

[Roy Arkon]

I would like to see a source for these kinds of comments. Honestly, this sounds like a lot of conjecture that you're trying to throw around as fact..

I would also like to get a source from you for the opposite statment as well. Because saying that NRS don't care about the lifespan of their games just because the games were in a 2 year cycle without considering all of the other factors like that WB are the bosses of NRS which is what you could expect from a massive publisher like WB plus more, that is the true conjecture here, period.

Juggs isn't complaining, just making a point, and a fair one. I don't see the need to throw around "still stuck in the mk9 and ij1 days".

Yeah, I didn’t even play MK9 or Injustice 1 very much, idk why he keeps saying I’m “stuck in those days”, lol. I also dunno what that even means tbh.

Even if you, Juggs, did it in a more refiend way, that is still a complaiment no matter how you spin it. And what I meant by being "stuck in the MK9 and IJ1 days" is that being stuck in the mentality of "we must getting support and updates and patches or else the game dies" because that was the mentality back then, while ignoring the fact that NRS and WB have long gone from that format of support long ago and they gave their later games, MKX and IJ2, much more support, and that regardless of that, you need to do your part as a member of the community to keep playing the games if your truly like them and not rely on patches. It really has nothing to do with how long you played these games. Seriously guys you just throwing excuses all over the place, it's really not hard to understand.

You've kind of made his point here with this long paragraph. You're not forced to play the new games, sure, but the sure is a lot of incentive to do so when you include things like patches, tournaments, pot bonuses, etc. The community plays a part too, don't get me wrong, but the simple fact that a new game is getting released so soon after the previous one is in of itself incentive to play the new one. Imagine for a second that Injustice wasn't a thing, and MKX was only coming out now. NRS community would have been playing mk9 up until now, because it would have still been the current game. Instead, people are naturally drawn to the "new and improved" version of MK when it gets released. Why continue to play mk9 when mkx comes out? Human nature wants to play the new one, for various reasons. If it gets released so soon after the previous one, why keep playing the old one? The two year cycle for a new game does play a part. If it were a 4 year cycle, the games would "last longer", so on and so forth. The business model provides incentive to switch, and takes advantage of human nature. Hence "conditioning".

I didn't make his point at all, if anything, you made my point by pretty much repeating what I've said over the course of this thread, as I did explained about the pot bonuses plus the fact, that you also keep ignoring, that are still more then enough players who play the old game because they like only one of the franchises and not both and it's more just then the pot bonuses or the buisness cycle for them, only goes to show that the life cycle shouldn't be much of a concern if you actually love the game, because for some, it is a 4 year cycle. Only the pros are gonna go for the new game and even then it is only SOME OF THE PROS, not all of them.

I haven't played MCVI, but from what I've seen, isn't that game supposed to be pretty bad? It's not going to make it into a main lineup if nobody likes the game. That doesn't really help your point, as the issue there isn't with how long it took to release the game.

Are you serious??? MVCI supposed to be bad? Do you expect companies to release games with terrible presentations (and BTW that is a game that truly has an issue with animations), a super lackluster roster, and god awful soundtrack plus more issues?

And the issue isn't about how long it took to release the game??? Then why the fuck are we talking about the 2 year cycle or the 4 year cycle for NRS games and put that much focus on? That was the whole point of me talking to Jynks for this particuar response because that's what talked about.

I'm sorry but this shit now goes beyond comedy and parody, you guys just throwing excuses like nobody's buisness.

I'm done with this argument, I got better things to do.

DAMN I feel the pain of the pros more and more regarding this website. That only proves even further that the small portions of this community (and more so from TYM) are the ones who truly amke the toxicity issue, not the pros.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Zoning characters are at a disadvantage versus rush down characters up close. Bane has armor and a command throw, Catwoman has a half screen jumping attack and ambiguous cross ups, Robin has long range normal attacks and okizeme, The Flash has a rewarding 50/50 mix up, etc. On the other hand, characters like Atom and Dr. Fate have limited mix ups and/or damage output but can play keep away effectively. I see nothing wrong with these gameplay designs. They are balanced within the game. There is no Zod, and to be fair there is no Batgirl either, so Injustice 2 does not have a "zoning problem".

I mean you can call it ‘keep away’, but Fate is still incredibly strong in footsies. It’s not as if he’s completely comfortable full screen and then lacking at footsie range, mixups or no.

When I think of keep away I think of characters that would rather keep you outside of jump distance, but Fate is just as happy playing footsies as he is throwing projectiles.

 

[Marinjuana]

Funny how people keep talking about how the NRS cycle and how it encourages people to drop the last game for the next game but meanwhile the next game is non existent and Injustice 2 has way less people playing it just like MKX did at that point in its life.

That and the idea that people stop playing because no more patches are coming(no more "support", game is "dead") are both wishful thinking IMO. I don't think this community has enough people who care that much to keep the tournament scene for that one game going strong for years.

 

[Icefyre]

That only proves even further that the small portions of this community (and more so from TYM) are the ones who truly amke the toxicity issue, not the pros.

Lol, that's pretty funny since you're the only person in this thread being aggressive. I'm going to politely request that you get off your high horse and be civil.

I would also like to get a source from you for the opposite statment as well. Because saying that NRS don't care about the lifespan of their games just because the games were in a 2 year cycle without considering all of the other factors like that WB are the bosses of NRS which is what you could expect from a massive publisher like WB plus more, that is the true conjecture here, period.

What is being mentioned here is what we can observe from a consumer perspective. That is very different from you trying speak for NRS.

Even if you, Juggs, did it in a more refiend way, that is still a complaiment no matter how you spin it. And what I meant by being "stuck in the MK9 and IJ1 days" is that being stuck in the mentality of "we must getting support and updates and patches or else the game dies" because that was the mentality back then, while ignoring the fact that NRS and WB have long gone from that format of support long ago and they gave their later games, MKX and IJ2, much more support, and that regardless of that, you need to do your part as a member of the community to keep playing the games if your truly like them and not rely on patches. It really has nothing to do with how long you played these games. Seriously guys you just throwing excuses all over the place, it's really not hard to understand.

A complaint is not equivalent to an observation, nor is it equivalent to constructive criticism for that matter. You seem to be projecting. Nobody here seems upset to me but you.

"...while ignoring the fact that NRS and WB have long gone from that format of support long ago and they gave their later games, MKX and IJ2, much more support". That's exactly the point being made, nobody is ignoring it. That in itself is incentive to play the later games that are supported. Psychology, my friend. How big was the competitive scene for Injustice1 when mkx came out? MKX had the bigger scene, funding, tournaments, patches, all around support from the developer. It's human nature to want to play what's more active. When the developers are patching and funding tournaments to later games, but not previous games, people will naturally gravitate to the later games.

Also, just saying, they still haven't fixed Jax's punch. But we still have tournaments, as you mentioned. Funny thing, that.

And the issue isn't about how long it took to release the game??? Then why the fuck are we talking about the 2 year cycle or the 4 year cycle for NRS games and put that much focus on? That was the whole point of me talking to Jynks for this particuar response because that's what talked about.

Okay, you clearly misunderstood my point. Take a step back and breathe man lol.

I'm done with this argument, I got better things to do.

Yay

...and I secretly hope there is a 3rd game project on the horizon for NRS.

I'm secretly still hoping for a He-man game

 

[Cursa]

Funny how people keep talking about how the NRS cycle and how it encourages people to drop the last game for the next game but meanwhile the next game is non existent and Injustice 2 has way less people playing it just like MKX did at that point in its life.

That and the idea that people stop playing because no more patches are coming(no more "support", game is "dead") are both wishful thinking IMO. I don't think this community has enough people who care that much to keep the tournament scene for that one game going strong for years.

Tbh I think there's other reasons that are beyond this thread for people dropping the game, there's been dozens of reasons mentioned and they probably all have some part in people dropping the game.

I'm now of the mindset that gear actually fucked up the playerbase pretty bad, and our legendary edition update was mostly gear which is, at least for me, completely useless.

The last patch for IJ2 for me might've well have just been another old patch with some new cosmetics added tbh

 

[Marinjuana]

Tbh I think there's other reasons that are beyond this thread for people dropping the game, there's been dozens of reasons mentioned and they probably all have some part in people dropping the game.

I'm now of the mindset that gear actually fucked up the playerbase pretty bad, and our legendary edition update was mostly gear which is, at least for me, completely useless.

The last patch for IJ2 for me might've well have just been another old patch with some new cosmetics added tbh

I'm kind with you on gear, not sure if for the same reasons though. I feel like this game didn't encourage lower level players to actually learn the game and to "get good" like MKX did. Most casuals played gear mode and worried about getting better stats and special abilities rather then being drawn in to the more competitive side of things. Part of it is Injustice attracting more non-FG fans then MK maybe does, but I don't think gear helped at all in that regard. Separate matchmaking, separate playerbase apparently. Though they did add a kickass tutorial so I'll give them props for that.

They gave me 9 DLC characters and balance, that's what I wanted. Outside of another stage, I personally didn't expect any additional content.

 

[Cursa]

I'm kind with you on gear, not sure if for the same reasons though. I feel like this game didn't encourage lower level players to actually learn the game and get like MKX did. Most casuals played gear mode and worried about getting better stats and special abilities rather then being drawn in to the more competitive side of things. Part of it is Injustice attracting more non-FG fans then MK maybe does, but I don't think gear helped at all in that regard. Separate matchmaking, separate playerbase apparently. Though they did add a kickass tutorial so I'll give them props for that.

They gave me 9 DLC characters and balance, that's what I wanted. Outside of another stage, I personally didn't expect any additional content.

Agreed on how you see it too. I thought gear would've been a gateway for newer players to move into ranked but gear is just such an easy way to win that I think a lot of players stayed in that area.

Tbh fighting with gear abilities is actually fun, it's just the stats that are broke af.

I would've preferred 9 DC characters with sub but hey when do I get what I want

 

[Marinjuana]

Agreed on how you see it too. I thought gear would've been a gateway for newer players to move into ranked but gear is just such an easy way to win that I think a lot of players stayed in that area.

Tbh fighting with gear abilities is actually fun, it's just the stats that are broke af.

I would've preferred 9 DC characters with sub but hey when do I get what I want

Yea dude, the abilities are cool but I played one Batman with super high defense and was just like "fuckkkkkk thattttttt"

 

[Jynks]

I'm secretly still hoping for a He-man game

hahah.. ME TOO!!! lol... Maybe at least He-Man and Skelator could be MK special guests.. He-Man couldn't do fatalities though.

 

[Cursa]

Yea dude, the abilities are cool but I played one Batman with super high defense and was just like "fuckkkkkk thattttttt"

CW with high def/HP is my problem. So many defensive options already and now she has like 30x HP.

And then increasing the cap to level 30 only increased this further

 

[Matix218]

Honestly I think NRS games are possibly built with the short life cycle in mind. It sounds like a conspiracy theory but honestly as you said, it would make sense based on their business model.

But what I meant is that the competitive community heavily relies on the dev support. With patches and pot bonuses. We shouldn’t, but that’s how we have been conditioned. So when that stops, we stop. Of course if everyone supported the game it would stay alive, but because of the conditioning I don’t see that ever happening tbh. Unless the new game is just super godlike or something, which kinda ties into “built to last” perspective.

I feel like the older "built to last" games that come to mind that had little or no dev support in the form of balance updates (such as ST, Melee, etc.) will never really exist again from any game developer.

It's not that the current games are not built to last in the sense that the devs try to balance them and put out a good product. It is more that everyone just expects the dev to support the game for approximately 2 years and then focus their resources on a new game because that is where the money is. This is especially true for NRS with WB calling their shots and providing their budget.

I think the older games stood the test of time so to speak because you knew that was all you were getting and you may or may not get a sequel later (which might suck even more and often did) so if you liked the game, you play it and keep on continuing to play it and discover all of what it had to offer. Today, you know you will get a new game in 2 years and you also know that even if it initially sucks they will patch and tweak it until it doesn't suck. Mix that in with the more active online for the new game (which wasnt even a thing back in the day) and you generally see the old game die out when the new one is released. It's almost like fighting games are becoming like sports games, where you get a new one every year (not quite, but almost) and once the new one comes out no one touches the old one ever again.

I don't think there is any correlation between quality of the games that NRS makes and them not standing the test of time. If there was no injustice, mkx or injustice 2 we would all be still obsessed with playing mk9 on this forum (and the casual fans would have moved on years ago) and we would have found every nuance that mk9 had to offer because it would be all we had. Would mk9 still be a mess and have a ton of issues? Yes, but it would stand the test of time because it would have been all we had. This is exactly why umk3 hung around for so long in the hardcore mk player scene. It was the only good game we had (despite its MANY issues) so it stood the test of time. Just my 2 cents on that topic...

 

[Roy Arkon]

Lol, that's pretty funny since you're the only person in this thread being aggressive. I'm going to politely request that you get off your high horse and be civil.


What is being mentioned here is what we can observe from a consumer perspective. That is very different from you trying speak for NRS.



A complaint is not equivalent to an observation, nor is it equivalent to constructive criticism for that matter. You seem to be projecting. Nobody here seems upset to me but you.

"...while ignoring the fact that NRS and WB have long gone from that format of support long ago and they gave their later games, MKX and IJ2, much more support". That's exactly the point being made, nobody is ignoring it. That in itself is incentive to play the later games that are supported. Psychology, my friend. How big was the competitive scene for Injustice1 when mkx came out? MKX had the bigger scene, funding, tournaments, patches, all around support from the developer. It's human nature to want to play what's more active. When the developers are patching and funding tournaments to later games, but not previous games, people will naturally gravitate to the later games.

Also, just saying, they still haven't fixed Jax's punch. But we still have tournaments, as you mentioned. Funny thing, that.


Okay, you clearly misunderstood my point. Take a step back and breathe man lol.


Yay


I'm secretly still hoping for a He-man game

If you think that having just one or two very short paragaphes at the end of the a post after reading something completely stupid and being shocked by it is being the aggresive one in a conversation then I don't know what to tell you (and yes, it me being shocked, not mad or aggersive). I was civil the whole thread, it's that you and others saying stuff that are compeltely out this world. I mean, you claim that that the whole "NRS has their lifespan in mind" thing is just an observation, yet that is just more toxicity on your part, both you, Juggs and others. You just making an assumption based one or two very small points, and while you claim to not ignore the rest, you clearly do. Because if you did, you won't even make those "obersavtions", otherwise that is being in denial. And you're mixing up your own emotions with the facts out there regarding the game. I'm not speaking for NRS, I'm setting the record straight, because those "observations" are just flat out wrong. And you keep throwing the ovious stuff that I did mention through the whole thread like "the scene for the new game is always gonna be bigger then the old one's", like I haven't talked about or compeltely don't understand it.

That would almost look like you guys just don't understand me, but it's just more toxicity, no matter how you spin it. And if acutally don't understand me for real in additon to it, then it's a classic facepalm case. I'm sorry but that's the case here, no way around it.

You guys really need to stop doing this internet hyperble nonesense, let alone cover it up as "civil stuff" or "observations". That won't make any good for you at all, short or long term, like I've said in the past.

Take it or leave it, I'm done with you.

 

[Cursa]

If you think that having just one or two very short paragaphes at the end of the a post after reading something completely stupid and being shocked by it is being the aggresive one in a conversation then I don't know what to tell you (and yes, it me being shocked, not mad or aggersive). I was civil the whole thread, it's that you and others saying stuff that are compeltely out this world. I mean, you claim that that the whole "NRS has their lifespan in mind" thing is just an observation, yet that is just more toxicity on your part, both you, Juggs and others. You just making an assumption based one or two very small points, and while you claim to not ignore the rest, you clearly do. Because if you did, you won't even make those "obersavtions", otherwise that is being in denial. And you're mixing up your own emotions with the facts out there regarding the game. I'm not speaking for NRS, I'm setting the record straight, because those "observations" are just flat out wrong. And you keep throwing the ovious stuff that I did mention through the whole thread like "the scene for the new game is always gonna be bigger then the old one's", like I haven't talked about or compeltely don't understand it.

You clearly don't understand my points at best case scenario. And that's a HUGE mabye, for the record. At worst, it's just more toxicity, no matter how you spin it.

You guys really need to stop doing this internet hyperble nonesense, let alone cover it up as "civil stuff" or "observations". That won't make any good for you at all, short or long term, like I've said in the past.

Take it or leave it, I'm done with you.

I don't think you know what the word toxicity means

 

[KingHippo]

Jesus Roy lmao

 

[Slips]

Ultimately I think it's good NRS is breaking their pattern. Will test the loyalty of the community and it's players. If they really think the grass is greener on the other side in a different game then let them go. And for some it might actually be greener for them, but for others maybe they'll appreciate what they have more with what NRS does.

And maybe then we can have a mentality that isn't revolving around whining and complaining so much lol.

 

[Roy Arkon]

I don't think you know what the word toxicity means

I do, thank you.

Jesus Roy lmao

Yeah, I know, just felt like I had to point that out.

Ultimately I think it's good NRS is breaking their pattern. Will test the loyalty of the community and it's players. If they really think the grass is greener on the other side in a different game then let them go. And for some it might actually be greener for them, but for others maybe they'll appreciate what they have more with what NRS does.

And maybe then we can have a mentality that isn't revolving around whining and complaining so much lol.

Totally agree on that one.

 

[hayatei]

It’s a little different though. The new NRS games aren’t really built to last for years and years. I’ve already made this point several times though. It’s hard to support a game you’re not passionate about. Once NRS decides to purposely make a game designed to last (which will only ever happen once they stop making new games), that’s when I believe we will support a game for years to come. There’s a bunch of factors in play that I’ve mentioned before, the community supporting the game is definitely a big factor, but I’m more interested in why the community does/doesn’t support the game than the act itself.

imo a lot of people are being unrealistic with community support for current NRS games. not that it's impossible but on the current 2 years plan they may not have enough time to create a game that could last for a long time

also i feel like their designs are usually made with a very clear intent on how their game should be played, which doesn't leave enough things to innovate or advance for years to come because you'd still be playing the "same" injustice 2 years later, just infinitely better and with much more optimal punishes etc

 

[Icefyre]

Geez Roy, we really need to get that sand out of your vagina, it's making you cranky. Does it itch?

I was civil the whole thread, it's that you and others saying stuff that are compeltely out this world.

Yes, your numerous ad hominems are a wonderful example for how to intellectually debate a subject.

I mean, you claim that that the whole "NRS has their lifespan in mind" thing is just an observation, yet that is just more toxicity on your part, both you, Juggs and others.

You need to stop using that word, you keep using it wrong.

You just making an assumption based one or two very small points, and while you claim to not ignore the rest, you clearly do.

Much more than that lol. If you really think everything Juggs or Matix said is based on "one or two very small points", then you don't know what you're arguing against.

Because if you did, you won't even make those "obersavtions", otherwise that is being in denial.

I'm still waiting on Jax's punch to be fixed.

And you're mixing up your own emotions with the facts out there regarding the game.

I don't have any emotional investment here lol. You keep acting like I have some sort of agenda, but I'm not even sure what agenda I'm supposed to have. You really need to learn the difference between complaints and observations, there's a rather fine line.

I'm not speaking for NRS, I'm setting the record straight, because those "observations" are just flat out wrong.

Oh?

And FTR, NRS most likely had the lifespan of their games in mind, it's WB that most likely who didn't.

FTR stands for "for the record", does it not? Again, what I mention has to do with what can be seen from a consumer's perspective. I'm not acting like I know the interrelationship between WB and NRS lol.

And you keep throwing the ovious stuff that I did mention through the whole thread like "the scene for the new game is always gonna be bigger then the old one's", like I haven't talked about or compeltely don't understand it.

You don't seem to understand its relevance to the discussion at hand.

That would almost look like you guys just don't understand me, but it's just more toxicity, no matter how you spin it.

Another example of you not understanding that word.

And if acutally don't understand me for real in additon to it, then it's a classic facepalm case. I'm sorry but that's the case here, no way around it.

Another undeserved holier-than-thou implication of stupidity. You wound me, sir. However shall I go on?

You guys really need to stop doing this internet hyperble nonesense

Point out the hyperbole, cause I'm not sure that you know what that word means either lmao.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

because you'd still be playing the "same" injustice 2 years later, just infinitely better and with much more optimal punishes etc

That pretty much describes Melee. Still playing it 16 years later, no patches, 3-4 characters dominate the meta and we see the same matchups and players in every Top 8.. Hundreds to thousands of entrants and a thriving competitive scene.