The Slips and Hippo Show E4: The One About CEO and Twitter Toxicity

Discussion in 'Podcasts, Shows & Archives' started by KingHippo, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. KingHippo

    KingHippo Alternative-Fact Checker

    Hey everyone, the @Slips and Hippo show is back for Episode 4, where we talk about all the goings-on related to CEO! Slips and I ramble for a couple of hours about the tournament results, some of the meta advancements we saw coming out of the tournament, dumb Twitter stuff, and more! We're still working on videos for the YouTube version, so as a TYM exclusive, the MP3 is now available for you to download so please check it out!

    Download link:

    00:00:00 - 00:01:42 (Slips and the Missouri Life)
    00:01:43 - 00:21:17 (Initial CEO talk - pools to top 24)
    00:21:18 - TBD (Match of the Week insert)
    00:21:20 - 00:53:22 (More CEO talk - Top 8)
    00:53:23 - 01:04:00 (Starfire)
    01:04:05 - 01:08:40 (Wrestling entrances and Daytona)
    01:08:41 - 01:14:40 (CEO x NJPW controversy)
    01:14:41 - 02:04:10 (Twitter, toxicity, and how players can do better)
    02:04:11 - 02:09:44 (Future tournaments, IPS tour)
    02:09:45 - 02:31:36 (Q&A: 'What do you think of Clash and Air Escape?' and wrap-up)

    As always, let us know what you think here or on Twitter at @Slipkicks and @KingHippo42. @Noble Raptor will be doing videos for the Youtube version again, so please be excited for that. I should have the sound fixed this time, but if it still sounds wonky, let us know! Thanks for listening!
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  2. Dizzy

    Dizzy False Information Police Officer
    Premium Supporter NetherRealm Studios

    Thank you for putting this out when you did, I had a 3 hour drive so that worked out well.

    It was definitely interesting all the way through. In particular I liked Slips mountain analogy. Never heard it explained quite like that and was well done.
  3. Roy Arkon

    Roy Arkon I will leave my seal on you!

    I do wanna add to the toxicity thing, that while the pros can indeed be a part of the problem and what Sonic said was indeed really stupid and it was just a result of putting effort for more then one game at a a time, the small people can be just as much effective regarding this issue. Yes one or two small guys aren't gonna have the same influence as Sonic for Gross, but when too many people jump on the bandwagon either because it is the easy thing to do or because they are just butthurt or because they rely on NRS listening to the people (and NRS backed off of it to a a degree in IJ2, thankfully), they are gonna have the same influence as the pros. And while the pros section of the community isn't clean from it, at least they are the ones who put the work to get good the game, at least they do give so much time because they wanna compete (because they love the game of course, not just the money thing), unlike the smaller people who just taking things out of proportions, and now it seems more and more clear that they just wanna play the game without putting that much work and when they lose they only talk the big game in hopes that NRS will change things in their favor.

    And sometimes they complain about what's going on in a tourney not the sake of balancing the game, but for entertainment value, as even though NRS games have so much character variety in top 8's they still complain one character appears one time too many in one top 8, almost ignoring the fact that the pros wanna win, and they would go to certain char because of that alone, regardless what the random viewer want or how many other players in the top 8 use that char.

    I mean you guys mentioned during the days of Soul Calibur 4 and 5, the SC community was super highly toxic as well, and not too long ago, Ragnarok said that most of the pros of that scene are now on a Facebook group called "Soul Calibur Competitive Players" instead of 8 Way Run, the SC scene's counterpart to TYM. Just like that now the NRS pros are almost never come back to TYM. Just put everything together and you will clearly see what's going on.
  4. coolwhip

    coolwhip Noob

    Pot helps.
  5. KingHippo

    KingHippo Alternative-Fact Checker

    I believe these are alcohol-fueled metaphors, to be fair. I hear them cracking open before the show begins.
  6. Braindead

    Braindead High-functioning Scrub
    Royal Contributor

    I was gonna just kiss his playstyle a little bit
    Rude, wsj515 and KingHippo like this.
  7. Under_The_Mayo

    Under_The_Mayo Master of Quanculations
    Premium Supporter

    Can I get a link to the archive to download?
    KingHippo likes this.
  8. God Confirm

    God Confirm We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.

    I was actually wondering about that. If someone did climb to the top of a mountain before me and it was Really shit I'd probably be grateful to hear them shout it down. Now if I care in the sustained climbing off the mountain, I'd probably be against it, but I think the analogy worked both ways lol

    Anyways great episode. And this is even from someone who doesn't even like the game, but I agree Sonic is just spitting salt. Nothing's changed in how the game plays, youre a great player you understand how the game works, if it sucks today it sucked 6 months ago like those who genuinely dislike it been saying. When it suddenly sucks just now, coincidentally after underperforming a tournament, that's just salt and just shittin on the game and community
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  9. Jynks

    Jynks some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous

    what did sonic say?
  10. CrimsonShadow

    CrimsonShadow Administrator and Community Engineer

    So I want to speak on this thing with Sonic:

    I know Slips sees this as Sonic being salty for losing or whatever, but the truth is that Sonic is just echoing things that a lot of people (and a lot of players on Twitter) have been saying for months. It was clear that he was just a much talking about Starfire and others as Adam.

    There's this concept in games in general, where something that may be legitimate or even balanced is still not fun to play against. While I believe that fighting games should always present a challenge, there's still a subjective aspect of HOW to present that challenge, and it's not set in stone just because 'the game was made that way'.

    For example, the things that I've never really liked about our games despite the many things I do like:
    -Lots of hitscan projectiles
    -Lots of full-screen auto-tracking attacks
    -Strong projectiles that are also self-contained mixups
    -Characters with strong zoning that are also oppressive in footsie range and up-close, and have incredibly easy or low-risk options to send opponents back to fullscreen

    And this isn't directly from the company, but in our community:
    -People confusing this with the kind of zoning in games like Street Fighter, where projectiles are slow, trade, usually (not always) are actual projectiles rather than hitscan, have less knockback, and non-fireball characters have typically been given defensive options against them or projectile invulnerable moves.

    This is keeping in mind that I love 100 other things about NRS games. It's just a personal quibble. And sometimes it's been addressed post-launch with patches.

    In MKX, I had some quibbles too (about launching 50/50s and the run + mixup meta), but the designers eventually addressed a lot of common complaints in a meta overhaul patch, and in my opinion the game is better for it.

    I think that things like the discipline of learning to get in on zoning and whatnot are still important. But when you have characters like INJ1 Zod or MMH that can so easily push you back, or majorly punish you from afar for the simplest mistake, while still being just as dangerous up-close, imo it messes with the risk/reward that getting in on oppressive zoning is supposed to represent.

    So it begs the question -- are people not allowed to have subjective opinions on gameplay styles and the meta? Where's the line between just being lazy/a complainer, and wishing that a few things were done a bit differently?

    With that said, I do believe that people will never be 100% satisfied and will always complain regardless of who the top tier is. No game will ever be 5-5 matchups only. The top characters will always be controversial. But how do we strike a balance to allow actual constructive criticism, like in MKX? Anyway, I think it's an interesting discussion.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
    Wigy likes this.
  11. Braindead

    Braindead High-functioning Scrub
    Royal Contributor

    What do you mean by hitscan?
  12. KingHippo

    KingHippo Alternative-Fact Checker

  13. KingHippo

    KingHippo Alternative-Fact Checker

    I swear to God the whole time Slips was spinning that beautiful yarn, all I could think about was an Everest climber trying to warn some poor bastards coming up that it was just shitty and cold up there lmao.
    God Confirm likes this.
  14. CrimsonShadow

    CrimsonShadow Administrator and Community Engineer

    Hitscan means that the attack connects the second/frame it goes active regardless of the distance you're at, rather than having travel time across the screen as a projectile.
  15. KingHippo

    KingHippo Alternative-Fact Checker

    I thought we addressed this pretty well, or at least I did. I acknowledged that Injustice has specific flaws that will never be addressed, and that I think they will always rub people the wrong way. Having said that, there's a vast difference between saying "I wished things were different," and "This game has no depth," which is really sort of the ongoing theme we've been getting hit with. One is an opinion that you can take or leave, the other is a damning, declarative statement that does nothing for nobody.

    We also talked about how that the issue of boredom/discontent is almost impossible to avoid, because that would happen with almost any subject. I really don't think saying something like that is too big of an issue.
    Protagonist_1, Rude and CrimsonShadow like this.
  16. Jynks

    Jynks some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous

    It depends on how you complain.

    There is nothing wrong with loosing interest in a game, people do it all the time, nor is it uncommon to play in a different scene and enjoy the game and scene more.. sometimes you do not know how bad something is until you experience something you feel it better. Everyone's opinion is their own and is just as valid as other... but I do think it is HOW people go about it that is important.

    There is a big difference between saying that your sick of the game and have issues with it, then saying your going to focus on something else and someone that says the game sucks 10 times a day for months.

    It reminds me of when Stargate Universe started and Gateworld (a stargate fan site) had to started heavyly moderating people as so many people hated the show and was making the forums toxic... At some level places like TYM are "fan sites"... and should be a place for people that like the thing to chat about that thing.. not a place for people to hate on a thing.

    Basically if you do not like the game, then you shouldn't play.. but constantly bringing down the vibe for people that DO like the game just makes everyone upset and turns the various forums into heated arguments.
    Roy Arkon likes this.
  17. God Confirm

    God Confirm We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.

    LOL! yeah. I do get what he was saying and I agree with his point - and the analogy kinda works until you think about it for more than a second.

    Hope you guys do this for the next NRS game
    Marinjuana likes this.
  18. Temp

    Temp Salmon. Otters. The Bringer.

    Great episode. It's refreshing to hear someone say Aquaman is still good. I think you guys are doing a good job of balancing the two sides of each issue.

    And yeah, that was probably me talking down the wager system on the Warrior Shrine/Netherkast. I generally don't care for breakers in general, though my stance on breakers does vary quite a bit from type to type (wagers/air escape/push blocks/combo breakers). It also varies game to game.
  19. CrimsonShadow

    CrimsonShadow Administrator and Community Engineer

    Yeah, just to clarify: I’m thinking more about how we view it as a community, than about how you specifically addressed it on the podcast. I thought you were balanced in the points you brought up.
  20. Big time lurker of this forum since forever, just wanted to give you two props for this podcast, enjoying every episodes. Keep it up, you have a fan.
    Ram, Cursa and Slips like this.
  21. Roy Arkon

    Roy Arkon I will leave my seal on you!

    Well technically every game is gonna have those "issues that will never be addressed", whatever those "issues" are small or big. No game is gonna be 110% perfect and no game is gonna fit every single player out there. But you're right, no matter how those "issues" might be upset to you in particular, saying stuff like the "game has no depth" is just outrageously wrong, and no matter who says that, a man of influence or not, it can only be bad for the scene, both short and long term.
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  22. Roy Arkon

    Roy Arkon I will leave my seal on you!

    Not to go off topic too much but doesn't Sagat in SF fit that role that you described? He has a projectile-based Zoning with his Tiger Shots that he can turn into a mixup both in terms of height and speed in addition to have Rushdown style specials with his Tiger Uppercut and Tiger Knee and his normals are very long. Morrigan in Darkstalkers also has a similar thing with her Sou Fist projectiles, and there are a few chars in other games that can do it too. So I don't think this thing is exclusive to and NRS games, maybe it is found more in them then others, but still not exclusive, and it's not like that these chars can't be dealt with.
  23. CrimsonShadow

    CrimsonShadow Administrator and Community Engineer

    This why SF2Turbo was one of the most unbalanced fighting games (Sagat is famous for being of the most historically broken characters). It taught everyone a lot about what a fighting game could be, but also about what not to do/what to improve on in the future.

    So hopefully by 2018 we’ve learned from this. Back then, they were experimenting with things and hadn’t yet envisioned a future with 10,000 people spending $500 to go to EVO, people having detailed frame data, people making their careers as professional players, etc. Different world.
  24. Roy Arkon

    Roy Arkon I will leave my seal on you!

    Well not only that fighting games have been evolved indeed, but other chars that are similar are lot better in terms of fairness while also being strong at the same time. Just look at Reptile in MK games, he is a versatile all around character with the emphasis on projectile-based Zoning that he can mix them up to control the pace of the match, yet he is still very fair while also still being a strong character. Also I believe Sagat got nerfed properly in later SF games if I'm not mistaken.

    At the end of the day, fighting games have been evolved, and I'm sure that their gameplay will get better, I just hope that other companies will also learned from NRS/WB to give their fans fully fledged games with a proper amount of characters and content at launch in addition to gameplay (although things don't look bright from them ATM, that's one of the reasons why I love NRS/WB games so much), and back to the topic, that communities for all games will learn to appreciate their games and not be so outrageously toxic.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
    CrimsonShadow likes this.
  25. KingHippo

    KingHippo Alternative-Fact Checker

    YouTube version is now up! Different timestamps are available in the description.
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