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The Problem With Deadshot

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Same.

I think it's very similar to the CSZ/Alien situation. CSZ had very obvious and blatant tools, which lead people to believe he was stronger than he actually was, when patience would have revealed that he was good but nothing overpowering. Instead he was bomb nerfed never to been seen again. The fact is he wasn't nerfed "that hard", it was that he wasn't as good as people thought early on so the nerfs had much bigger consequences than intended as the game played out. The same way you say "right in front of our eyes" is the exact same stance people had with their pitchforks at that time. Meanwhile Alien was barely even mentioned for 3 weeks, so by the time they nerfed he barely was touched and went on to destroy the game for months. People were saying Alien was too slow to be viable and low mid tier the first couple of weeks, but how did that story end? I can see this exact same situation repeating again in the exact same way. We can literally have Deadshot nerfed and some random like Harley or Beetle not be touched but rise to top and it would be an exact replica.

That's my biggest issue. It's easy for you for example to play Cheetah and say "wow this Deadshot is godlike", but it's easy for me to face Adam, Supergirl, Grodd, Aquaman, Arrow, Darkseid, and Atrocitus with a "wtf this MU is tough" face as well. There's MUs I feel these "strong normals" barely even work and I struggle keeping people out. It is a very MU based game unless you're playing the even better characters like Batman, then you always are ok. The proposed nerfs of "nerf WC recovery, unsafe or remove 50/50, reduce meter building, unsafe WU" i keep seeing could have devastating consequences. I can't even imagine how a couple of MUs could be playable with those nerfs. Aquaman could become unplayable.

People think I'm just adamant because I don't want my character nerfed, which is true. But I don't want any character nerfed for months. Not until we know what actually is too strong, or any buffs for people too weak. It's impossible by any standard to know that in week 1 unless someone is 6f mid that's +4 on block broken. We've seen how this plays out wayyy too often to go knee jerk all over again.

Batman.
Actually a bunch of people thought that Alien was dangerously strong early on -- but they were shouted down by people saying "he's fine" and that everyone needed to learn the matchup. Similar to Tanya.

This is why jumping to conclusions in either direction is ill-advised. Preaching that a character is fine after less than a week is honestly just as bad as calling for nerfs.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
How risky does it become for deadshot to use his projectiles when right outside of the range of his normals?
Very, but people get away with it for now. It's the worst area for him imo. The only one that is safeish is MB Rifle, with the obvious pushback effect, but it has slow startup so some characters will full punish you like Catwoman j2, air dash chars, Beetle, Harley, etc if they guessed right and I waste a bar. The other projectiles you either can punish or create block pressure, unless he does close ricochet which will hit you, but if you read that you can close the gap and pressure or some characters like Aquaman, Adam, Supergirl, and such big punish . All a meta game.

Depends on the character and situation, but most pressure or punish if he makes the wrong read at that range. I hate that range lol.

Actually a bunch of people thought that Alien was dangerously strong early on -- but they were shouted down by people saying "he's fine" and that everyone needed to learn the matchup. Similar to Tanya.

This is why jumping to conclusions in either direction is ill-advised. Preaching that a character is fine after less than a week is honestly just as bad as calling for nerfs.
Describe "early on"? I'm specifically talking about Injustice 2 out for 1-8 days early on. I dunno about twitter or all that jazz, but here on TYM the first two weeks this site was riddled with nothing but anti-CSZ threads every single day, every other status, and I barely saw any Alien threads or mentions at that time. It wasn't until around week 3-ish his name started coming up, and by week 4 we had a patch nuking CSZ and massaging Alien's back. Even then there wasn't any 'wow why wasn't Alien nerfed" after the patch until weeks later when everyone and their grandma started playing him.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Actually a bunch of people thought that Alien was dangerously strong early on -- but they were shouted down by people saying "he's fine" and that everyone needed to learn the matchup. Similar to Tanya.

This is why jumping to conclusions in either direction is ill-advised. Preaching that a character is fine after less than a week is honestly just as bad as calling for nerfs.
The only people jumping to conclusions are the people asking for nerfs. The argument isn't that deadshot is "fine" it's that it's too early to say.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Very, but people get away with it for now. It's the worst area for him imo. The only one that is safeish is MB Rifle, with the obvious pushback effect, but it has slow startup so some characters will full punish you like Catwoman j2, air dash chars, Beetle, Harley, etc if they guessed right and I waste a bar. The other projectiles you either can punish or create block pressure, unless he does close ricochet which will hit you, but if you read that you can close the gap and pressure or some characters like Aquaman, Adam, Supergirl, and such big punish . All a meta game.

Depends on the character and situation, but most pressure or punish if he makes the wrong read at that range. I hate that range lol.



Describe "early on"? I'm specifically talking about Injustice 2 out for 1-8 days early on. I dunno about twitter or all that jazz, but here on TYM the first two weeks this site was riddled with nothing but anti-CSZ threads every single day, every other status, and I barely saw any Alien threads or mentions at that time. It wasn't until around week 3-ish his name started coming up, and by week 4 we had a patch nuking CSZ and massaging Alien's back. Even then there wasn't any 'wow why wasn't Alien nerfed" after the patch until weeks later when everyone and their grandma started playing him.
It was really kind of a rhetorical question because people are saying he's great at everything. People need to figure out where to be on screen against him because he doesn't win at all ranges. I've played the match once and came to some of these conclusions already to help with the MU.
 
Deathstroke had and still has a better up-close game than Deadshot but that didn't stop NRS from nerfing his guns. Same will happen with Deashot.
 

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
LOL, like how you agree but than backpedal. At least admit your situation, since you play the character too, is completely different since it's a mirror match. I honestly haven't fought a spammy DS online yet so I'm not salty at all. The OP makes a good point that a safe 50/50 for a zoner is atypical for the game. Do you honestly think it's a good idea to give a zoner such an ability, and the myriad of other options better than characters who have no/weak zoning? I definitely question the thought that went into that.
Telling people to play him doesn't remove the issue. I'm against changes this early for sure but to act like this character isn't a symptom of an ongoing issue seems ingenuous.
It's also week one and I think ppl haven't figured out the anti DS tech to post so they are salty as hell.
I do, however, applaud your willingness to stay with your char as I have been on that side of the "YOUR CHARACTER IS OP" crying before. Only time will tell what the NRS response will be, but i'd bet good money on incoming nerfs of some sort, since DS isn't very fun to watch(for many ppl) and NRS likely wants that ESPORTS exposure.
Yo. Dead shot is not the only one. Should somethings change? Yeah. Down the road sure but like you said it hasn't even been a full week and there's bitching.

The character can get touched. This ain't alien or Tanya or early vortex mk9 scorpion or OP Zangif, Sagat or Honda of the past. He ain't no tekken 4 Jin this character can get touched.

His zoning is annoying to some or most but it hasn't been even a full calender week yet!

50/50's yeah he gots them. AND? So does half the cast & more and their archetypes range from zoner to set up characters and rush down. I think every single character has good dirt on them. But people see a top player or sonic playing lame then going in or out from a mix. It's what the character is supposed to do. What you gonna do? Play him honest?

Let's wait till a good solid amount of time has passed and a lot of tech or information has been discovered before start crying about X character.

Yes there's issues. OK. Kool but where's the tech, knowledge & the exhausted answers to deal with said character or soon to be characters. That's what I'm pointing out.

Ain't no one talking about the good net code.
The vast amount of characters.
How the practice mode can still be improved and tweaked more.
No talks about how great it is for vets of the game jumping back in and loving the legacy of it.

No. Just bitching bout dead shot 50/50 or zoning.

Not even a full calender week yet.

Smh.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Yo. Dead shot is not the only one. Should somethings change? Yeah. Down the road sure but like you said it hasn't even been a full week and there's bitching.

The character can get touched. This ain't alien or Tanya or early vortex mk9 scorpion or OP Zangif, Sagat or Honda of the past. He ain't no tekken 4 Jin this character can get touched.

His zoning is annoying to some or most but it hasn't been even a full calender week yet!

50/50's yeah he gots them. AND? So does half the cast & more and their archetypes range from zoner to set up characters and rush down. I think every single character has good dirt on them. But people see a top player or sonic playing lame then going in or out from a mix. It's what the character is supposed to do. What you gonna do? Play him honest?

Let's wait till a good solid amount of time has passed and a lot of tech or information has been discovered before start crying about X character.

Yes there's issues. OK. Kool but where's the tech, knowledge & the exhausted answers to deal with said character or soon to be characters. That's what I'm pointing out.

Ain't no one talking about the good net code.
The vast amount of characters.
How the practice mode can still be improved and tweaked more.
No talks about how great it is for vets of the game jumping back in and loving the legacy of it.

No. Just bitching bout dead shot 50/50 or zoning.

Not even a full calender week yet.

Smh.
Preach, man.
 
I do not understand people saying that this character has insane 50/50s. The overhead needs to be cancelled into MB Tiger Knee to be safe and both low/overhead convert into laughable damage even when optimized mid-screen.

If you remove the overhead, then how would Deadshot be able to create space when people inevitably learn how to get in?
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Not gonna lie, I came in here to roast but the OP was actually pretty well written and I agree for the most part. It is getting old being JUST Deadshot who's getting shit on, but I'd imagine that's just because of how obvious and easy to execute his strengths are. Some of the other characters who will rise as really powerful characters may be a bit more nuanced in what they do well. Captain Cold, level 2 trait, corner. That'll make you feel more helpless than anything Deadshot will do, I'll just put that out there.
Level 2 trait won't make you feel helpless, it will make you helpless lol
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
There is no adjusting to a character with no weaknesses
one week and you come to this conclusion? He doesn't have a good anti air option and when just outside of the range of his normals it's risky for him to throw out any projectiles. It's only a week in, please just try harder before you advocate for nerfs on the basis that a character has no weaknesses.
 
one week and you come to this conclusion? He doesn't have a good anti air option and when just outside of the range of his normals it's risky for him to throw out any projectiles. It's only a week in, please just try harder before you advocate for nerfs on the basis that a character has no weaknesses.
I hate this notion that just because a game is in the beginning of it's life span means you can't deterimine anything at all about anything. It's really ridiculous, sure more things will come to light, but to say that you have no idea how this game is turning out is simply naive. You don't need to anti air a jump in when you can just back dash, shoot, space it out or meter burn roll away.
 
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Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I hate this notion that just because a game is in the beginning of it's life span means you can't deterimine anything at all about anything. It's really ridiculous, sure more things will come to light, but to say that you literally have no idea how this game is turning out is simply naive. You don't need to anti air a jump in when you can just back dash, shoot, space it out or meter burn roll away.
I just don't see how you or anyone here can know what specific changes need to be made within a weeks time. Maybe the best solution is to buff some of the characters who struggle? Maybe not. Like I said earlier, it's more risky to make knee jerk changes early on than it is to let the game play out a bit before hand. He may not even be the strongest character but he's the one getting the most attention.