ten characters better than johnny cage.

[NKZero]

coming from the guy learning freddy and kenshi =P?

actually now that i think about it, ive been seeing cages use 1 or 2 maybe, ex force balls from a distance ( mid screen or a bit further depending) to be able to get themselves in. what are everyones thoughts on this aspect of cage. its not like this is something old.

Yeah it is a viable tactic. It works best at footsies range where you don't wanna rush in and get blown up and thus you are trying to find a safe way of advancing. Probably most effective around jump-in range and even better when you are closing down on your opponent near a corner. I even sometimes do D4-EX force ball but it kinda sucks if they are already crouching.

 

[Enigma642]

I'm the last person who should be getting into a tier placement debate but I think too much credit/blame is given to characters and not enough to the players controlling them. Dizzy was on stream twice and then we had curbo and Reo using cage. Now everybody thinks cage is broken.

 

[smokey]

I both agree and disagree. I'm not a fan of counterpicking, but to fly across the country, spend countess £$£$ as a JC player to get blown up by an average noob player (First example I could think of) and you would only have yourself to blame for not having a secondary.

Counter picking every match is pretty lame. Ensuring you have a solid game plan and maximising your chances of winning however is just smart.

Learning how to beat kitana with smoke is smarter than learning kenshi to ensure you have minimal chances of winning.

 

[THTB]

Any character with a 6-9 frame launcher can get Cage off of them easy. Players are just too scared and dont know what theyre doing against Cage STILL.

You could put nearly any Cage against somebody like Ketchups Sektor and all of a sudden being in Sektors face becomes alot harder because you risk eating 40% for him reading your blockstrings/pokes.

Thats probably the most important part of fighting a Cage player, you HAVE to know when he's neutral or at disadvantage. Block a poke and mash your fastest launcher untill they understand that they cant just blockstring you all day. Thats when the Cage matchup gets more interesting.

That is very true, but realistically, you're having to guess what he is going to do, and against top level players, you don't always guess right.

To say people don't know how to play vs Cage is a really foolish statement. People KNOW how to deal with Cage. Everyone in top 32 and beyond, aside from a small handful, know what to do. The problem is that it's still not easy, whatsoever. Cage not only forces you to be aware of frame data, he forces you to have good fundamentals to keep him from getting in and going HAM.

 

[BenGmanUk]

Learning how to beat kitana with smoke is smarter than learning kenshi to ensure you have minimal chances of winning.

I agree but Kit/Smoke is considered fairly even. Learning your way around 6 - 4s is worthwhile. Learning your way around 7 - 3s is asking for trouble without a backup. Not to say that you shouldn't do your best to learn the MU.

 

[smokey]

I agree but Kit/Smoke is considered fairly even. Learning your way around 6 - 4s is worthwhile. Learning your way around 7 - 3s is asking for trouble without a backup. Not to say that you shouldn't do your best to learn the MU.

A 7-3 matchup in this game isnt even that hard. In a best out of 3 or best of 5 theres no way that you are going to lose hands down to a bad matchup.

In other games there are matchups which are barely winnable at all. I feel that in mortal kombat someone loyal to their character will overcome all of their worst matchups.

 

[crosstalk]

You can always follow the Japanese ST strategy. "He's playing O. Sagat? Dhalsim? I don't care, I play Zangief!"

 

[Zoidberg747]

A 7-3 matchup in this game isnt even that hard. In a best out of 3 or best of 5 theres no way that you are going to lose hands down to a bad matchup.

In other games there are matchups which are barely winnable at all. I feel that in mortal kombat someone loyal to their character will overcome all of their worst matchups.

This only applies to people who play top tier characters.

 

[smokey]

This only applies to people who play top tier characters.

Its clear that some characters are better than others. This wont stop you from beating them though, i doubt CDjr and REO win consistantly because they play jax or kabal. If you think thats why they are winning then get up and take evo with those characters.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Its clear that some characters are better than others. This wont stop you from beating them though, i doubt CDjr and REO win consistantly because they play jax or kabal. If you think thats why they are winning then get up and take evo with those characters.

They are winning because they are two of the most knowledgeable and best players in the USA right now. However, if they were asked to take EVO with Jade, do you really think they could do it? Even if they picked her up now, learned her, and became the best with her, you really think they could beat ALL of those bad matchups to take EVO?

 

[Death]

okay so this is getting ridiculous about cage. apparently cage is broken after mlg and is now top 5.......? seriously i saw so many, cage is OP comments and legit players like Big D saying he is broken. cage top 5??? HA!!!!!!!!!! its funny that cage finally gets the credit he deserves, he loves all that hate. DON'T HATE!! anyway here is ten characters that are better than johnny cage, and five more that IMO are better or are toss ups.
no particular order
1.kabal
2. kitana
3.jax
4.cyrax
5.sonya
6.freddy
7.kenshi
8.kung lao
9. raiden
10.smoke
please argue with me, i want to see any one fit johnny cage in this list, now am not saying match up wise, am saying characters that are better, obviously he beats jax 9-1 (lmao) and kung lao but here are 5 toss ups to being better than cage

11.reptile
12.sektor
13.ermac
14.mileena
15. lui kang
you can even make an arguement for nightwolf since he has great anti zoning and godlike pokes and footsies game. but there is no denying the top ten guys/girls. let me know where you think johnny cage fits on the top 15. and before you post saying he's broken and frame traps this and that, let me just let you know that you are so mind fucked from losing to cage that he makes it seem like he is frame trapping you, he only has 3 moves on block were he is at advantage, but your so scared to eat his f3 that you sit there and take chip and cry.

DON'T HATE

Only Kabal, Kenshi, Kitana and Sonya are the only characters better than Cage and even Kitana is a big maybe. Cage is top 5. Cage worst MU is Kabal and his 1/2 others is probably 4.5 at worst for him. Cage is not flavor of the month. This game is going down the road where characters like sonya/cage are going to dominate while good zoners/characters like kabal/kenshi are going to be up there too.

I really dont think Jax (overrated), Cyrax (Overrated), Freddy, KL(Overrated), Raiden (Overrated) and smoke are better. People/Cage players might blow me up for saying Cage is top 5 but you heard it hear. I guarantee by EVO a lot of people will have Cage in their top 5. In general I think Cage players as a whole just needs to level up. Cage at the highest possible level can win majors. No one has taking him there yet. The closest I seen who has is Curbo, Maxter and Foxy and even they can tell you that theres so much potential with him that they didnt even reach yet.

 

[Espio]

Jade's not nearly as bad as she's painted as, the only really serious problems for her are Kenshi, Raiden, and Kung Lao and I don't think any of those are 7-3 or lower matches, I believe they are 6-4 in those respective characters' favor, making them winnable. If Jade had 9-1 or 8-2 matches, I'd be inclined to agree wholeheartedly.


It's not a matter of if Jade could win a major, it's a matter of someone actually doing it with her. Nobody's believes in her, so we'll probably never know if she has what it takes. People had Nightwolf in bottom five for ages, but Big D made top 8 with him...because Big D, the player was really, really good.

 

[Metzos]

Only Kabal, Kenshi, Kitana and Sonya are the only characters better than Cage and even Kitana is a big maybe. Cage is top 5. Cage worst MU is Kabal and his 1/2 others is probably 4.5 at worst for him. Cage is not flavor of the month. This game is going down the road where characters like sonya/cage are going to dominate while good zoners/characters like kabal/kenshi are going to be up there too.

I really dont think Jax (overrated), Cyrax (Overrated), Freddy, KL(Overrated), Raiden (Overrated) and smoke are better. People/Cage players might blow me up for saying Cage is top 5 but you heard it hear. I guarantee by EVO a lot of people will have Cage in their top 5.

You really think Cage is top 5 ?

 

[Zoidberg747]

I think they could, Jade's not nearly as bad as she's painted as, the only serious problems for her are Kenshi, Raiden, and Kung Lao and I don't think any of those are 7-3 or lower matches, I believe they are 6-4 in those respective characters' favor, making them winnable. If Jade had 9-1 or 8-2 matches, I'd be inclined to agree wholeheartedly.


It's not a matter of if Jade could win a major, it's a matter of someone actually doing it with her.

Fine, what about Sheeva. Do you think they could do it with Sheeva?

 

[smokey]

They are winning because they are two of the most knowledgeable and best players in the USA right now. However, if they were asked to take EVO with Jade, do you really think they could do it? Even if they picked her up now, learned her, and became the best with her, you really think they could beat ALL of those bad matchups to take EVO?

They would give it a damn good go, and im sure would get so much more respect for doing so than just counter picking every match.

I hope im not just speaking for myself, but if i lost to someone in the grand finals who uses their main no matter what, and has beaten countless bad matchups to get there, i would respect them much more than if they counterpicked their way there and won through counterpicking, no matter how good the player, there shouldnt be this horrible mindset that bad matchups are always unwinnable. People just see a bad matchup and assume they have lost.

 

[Death]

You really think Cage is top 5 ?

I really do and I have for a very long time. Cage at the highest possible level could even be top 3. If the players/reads/reactions and everything is on point he can kill you the first time hes in. I think the Cage community has got to level up in general. The future of this game is going to be about footsies/spacing and superior rushdown. Rushdown capabilities is not limited like zoning is. Rushdown can always be leveled up. It just comes down to the player. The only type zoners that will be able to compete will be kenshi and freddy.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

cage is definitly top 32. for sure

Thats good shit mayne!!!

Who cares where he is. Technically everyone is top when the bracket is laid out for you to be successful.
This is why Noob, Kenshi and Freddy are the only true "zoners". Their projectiles take up the neutral ducking space.... everyone else are just frauds.

I also like to point out... anyone with an armor move has the same threat as JC at the beginning of a round... which makes the argument that I have to come get you null and void.

 

[Espio]

Yes I do, actually. I think Sheeva is better than Jade. We also have proof from Final Round of a really solid Sheeva player, GGA Jerimiah shutting down Kabals and Kung Laos (some of her worst match ups). The right hands make a difference.

We don't need easy or even to win, we just need possible.

I can also say with confidence that all of my losses with Sheeva, Jade, or Stryker were not because of them, but because of my errors or being outplayed by a better player.

 

[Zoidberg747]

They would give it a damn good go, and im sure would get so much more respect for doing so than just counter picking every match.

I hope im not just speaking for myself, but if i lost to someone in the grand finals who uses their main no matter what, and has beaten countless bad matchups to get there, i would respect them much more than if they counterpicked their way there and won through counterpicking, no matter how good the player, there shouldnt be this horrible mindset that bad matchups are always unwinnable. People just see a bad matchup and assume they have lost.

Your talking to a guy who has stuck to Baraka for 6 months. I know how it feels to deal with bad matchups, and I deal with them often. And trust me, it is not as easy as some of you claim. Take the Kabal matchup, that is 7-3. The Kabal player HAS to make a mistake and not play the matchup right for me to win. Should I really just use Baraka and get blown up?

Also your logic is sort of flawed. So because I play only Baraka I should get more respect than guys like Curbo or FOREVER KING who play half the cast(King also plays Baraka) at a higher level than my Baraka? Are you saying that the better player is the one who only learns ONE character, as opposed to someone who learns MULTIPLE characters?

 

[Metzos]

I really do and I have for a very long time. Cage at the highest possible level could even be top 3. If the players/reads/reactions and everything is on point he can kill you the first time hes in.

True. But can't this also go the other way around too ? If the opponent has the reflexes to punish his strings then he can stop his pressure and keep him out yes ?

 

[16 Bit]

Drunk Maxter playing Jade could probably place top 32 at EVO.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I really do and I have for a very long time. Cage at the highest possible level could even be top 3. If the players/reads/reactions and everything is on point he can kill you the first time hes in. I think the Cage community has got to level up in general. The future of this game is going to be about footsies/spacing and superior rushdown. Rushdown capabilities is not limited like zoning is. Rushdown can always be leveled up. It just comes down to the player. The only type zoners that will be able to compete will be kenshi and freddy.

The Cage community is probably 1 of the strongest in the MK scene, thats why we still win. Once people realise HOW to block and counter, and counter WITHOUT poking or armouring, we'll see what Cage is truly capable of. So far I only know a few players that actually do that.

That being said, when I play Cage it does make alot of ppl seem free when I'm playing properly

 

[crosstalk]

I agree, I don't think this game is evolving towards something where if you have a decent projectile you beat a rushdown character. Eventually there will be a midscreen or close range battle, where footsies and spacing will dominate. Kitana-Cage is a good example. We used to think it was free for Kitana, but now we see it's really a battle of footsies and spacing.

 

[Zyphox]

The Cage community is probably 1 of the strongest in the MK scene, thats why we still win. Once people realise HOW to block and counter, and counter WITHOUT poking or armouring, we'll see what Cage is truly capable of. So far I only know a few players that actually do that.

That being said, when I play Cage it does make alot of ppl seem free when I'm playing properly

thank you you took the words right out of my mouth, death makes it seem like when cage is in its up to cage player to stay in, when in fact cage is neutral on most of the things he does, so its up to the other player to get out.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

This kinda debate shouldnt be around still. I've been saying and doing this kinda shit for so long now.