ten characters better than johnny cage.

[zaf]

cage is one of my favorite match ups, probably second or third after mileena.
besides how retarded he is when he has ermac in the corner i really have no problem with the character at all
every cage ive played plays completely different, as weird as that sounds (f3 f3 f3 lol)
but with that being said, its the better cages that lock me down and push me to the corner without letting me get a grab, ex tkp or cross over to start going to the other side

 

[crosstalk]

I dont think he is broken at all, i just think that once he gets in on you he has a lot that can go his way, and for every action that you can make he will have a counter and its just mind games.


No, frame data sets up the mind games, smart people just enforce them.

I think so as well. Cage definitely has an advantage up close - all his normals and pokes are fast, if you get hit by f3 the player can hit confirm into nut punch, b3 is anti-poke, ex nut punch can blow up pokes too, etc. It's all about who makes the right guess.

 

[zaf]

I dont think he is broken at all, i just think that once he gets in on you he has a lot that can go his way, and for every action that you can make he will have a counter and its just mind games.


No, frame data sets up the mind games, smart people just enforce them.

no no, i also agree that the frame data also dictates how good he is, but him being up in your face is all that makes him good.

 

[Metzos]

cage is one of my favorite match ups, probably second or third after mileena.
besides how retarded he is when he has ermac in the corner i really have no problem with the character at all
every cage ive played plays completely different, as weird as that sounds (f3 f3 f3 lol)
but with that being said, its the better cages that lock me down and push me to the corner without letting me get a grab, ex tkp or cross over to start going to the other side

I dont know man after finding out that Ermac can keep Cage away from him with d3 at max range i really havent faced a Cage that can give me so much trouble. Ofc in the end its up to the player too. The problem with Cage is that he cant approach Ermac so easily. Even if he decides to punish TKP's with SK Ermac is still throw far away from him, for a what, 8% dmg ? (cant remember exact dmg of SK) On the other hand one blocked SK and JC loses 30+% of his life and gets thrown at fullscreen again where he must fight his way inside again.

 

[smokey]

no no, i also agree that the frame data also dictates how good he is, but him being up in your face is all that makes him good.

Its not all that makes him good at all. He can compete just as well from midscreen, allowing him to bring the game up close. I didnt ever say that JC is overpowered or broken, i just know that once he is in, its all guessing games. If cage guesses wrong he eats a poke (or if you have a good fast launcher thats on the table). If you guess wrong then you get seven shades of shit beat out of you, over and over again.

This match up feels like no matter who you are using, as soon as he is in on you its a whole different game. Might aswell just be flipping a coin, if its heads you poke out, tails you get smacked in the sack.

 

[zaf]

yup i agree with all of that man, the match is getting easier more and more now.
not to take away from good cages.
and yes d3 is amazing in this mu, especially since it makes cages f3 string whiff over ermac.

 

[Metzos]

yup i agree with all of that man, the match is getting easier more and more now.
not to take away from good cages.
and yes d3 is amazing in this mu, especially since it makes cages f3 string whiff over ermac.

Thats the beauty of it.

 

[crosstalk]

Having an armor move can definitely help too.

Back to the original topic, we don't know just yet if Cage is top 10. He definitely has the potential to be in my opinion. If he's not top 10, he's certainly quite close to it. Perhaps after the community matchup discussion we'll see a clearer picture.

 

[Metzos]

Having an armor move can definitely help too.

Back to the original topic, we don't know just yet if Cage is top 10. He definitely has the potential to be in my opinion. If he's not top 10, he's certainly quite close to it. Perhaps after the community matchup discussion we'll see a clearer picture.

I would put him either top 15 or top 20.

 

[zaf]

i dont think he is top 10, i think @charlineonline said it best.
there is a cycle happening right now, where cage is really good against the current top 8 charactes and all the characters used by the top 8 players. soon when everyone has a pocket cage or people use cage in top 8, i see more people using sub to counter him and then a new cycle will emerge. This will not effect the tier list however. this cycle just dictates the results of tournaments.

 

[crosstalk]

i dont think he is top 10, i think @charlineonline said it best.
there is a cycle happening right now, where cage is really good against the current top 8 charactes and all the characters used by the top 8 players. soon when everyone has a pocket cage or people use cage in top 8, i see more people using sub to counter him and then a new cycle will emerge. This will not effect the tier list however. this cycle just dictates the results of tournaments.

Then that person busts out a pocket Kung Lao. Mortal Kombat.

 

[zaf]

exactly, you will see counter pick players and main loyalists who know the match ups better.
the counter pickers will win over pure match up advantage and fundamentals and the mains will win by knowing everything about the match ups. its just how scenes are lol. this is a new one and everyone just jumps to bandwagons and conclusions too soon

 

[Metzos]

exactly, you will see counter pick players and main loyalists who know the match ups better.
the counter pickers will win over pure match up advantage and fundamentals and the mains will win by knowing everything about the match ups. its just how scenes are lol. this is a new one and everyone just jumps to bandwagons and conclusions too soon

I will never switch from Ermac to no one else. They can all rot in hell. Counter-picking sucks anyway. Where is the fun in that ?

 

[smokey]

I will never switch from Ermac to no one else. They can all rot in hell. Counter-picking sucks anyway. Where is the fun in that ?

$12,000 counterpicks fun. 10-0

 

[zaf]

coming from the guy learning freddy and kenshi =P?

actually now that i think about it, ive been seeing cages use 1 or 2 maybe, ex force balls from a distance ( mid screen or a bit further depending) to be able to get themselves in. what are everyones thoughts on this aspect of cage. its not like this is something old.

 

[Metzos]

$12,000 counterpicks fun. 10-0

Lets just say i dont care for that then.

 

[crosstalk]

coming from the guy learning freddy and kenshi =P?

actually now that i think about it, ive been seeing cages use 1 or 2 maybe, ex force balls from a distance ( mid screen or a bit further depending) to be able to get themselves in. what are everyones thoughts on this aspect of cage. its not like this is something old.

It's definitely viable. I like to use it sometimes.

 

[Metzos]

coming from the guy learning freddy and kenshi =P?

Oops you got me there. No for real now i dont plan entering tournaments with Freddy or Kenshi. Ermac is my man for that. The only reason i started playing these two is so i can improve my chances with Ermac if i ever have to face either of them since they are bad MU's for Ermac.

 

[smokey]

Lets just say i dont care for that then.

Counterpicking is all i see in tournaments now, its disrespectful in my opinion, people should stick with the character they love and they will overcome the harder matchups with enough work.

 

[Zoidberg747]

i dont think he is top 10, i think @charlineonline said it best.
there is a cycle happening right now, where cage is really good against the current top 8 charactes and all the characters used by the top 8 players. soon when everyone has a pocket cage or people use cage in top 8, i see more people using sub to counter him and then a new cycle will emerge. This will not effect the tier list however. this cycle just dictates the results of tournaments.

This tournament has made me pick up Kenshi, for this exact reasonXD

Counterpicking is all i see in tournaments now, its disrespectful in my opinion, people should stick with the character they love and they will overcome the harder matchups with enough work.

If I face REO's Kabal as Baraka, I could be 100% spot on with my execution and knowledge, and he would still have to make MANY mistakes for me to beat him. Counterpicking is not disrespectful, it is smart. Plus, it shows who is the better player. Think about it, if one guy just plays Raiden exclusively, is he really better than the guy who plays 10 characters at a very high level?

 

[BenGmanUk]

Counterpicking is all i see in tournaments now, its disrespectful in my opinion, people should stick with the character they love and they will overcome the harder matchups with enough work.

I both agree and disagree. I'm not a fan of counterpicking, but to fly across the country, spend countess £$£$ as a JC player to get blown up by an average noob player (First example I could think of) and you would only have yourself to blame for not having a secondary.

Counter picking every match is pretty lame. Ensuring you have a solid game plan and maximising your chances of winning however is just smart.

 

[NariTuba]

lol but my point is that its not cage at frame advantage its the player he faces being mindfucked which makes him so good, therefore its not really a tool of cage in game wise. johnny cage sucks everywhere but up close, do you agree with this statement? not saying i do just asking.

if Cage's strings are fast enough that a human being is unable to react to them and has to guess, IT IS his tools that make him good. A cage player can mindfuck other players BECAUSE of his tools. If he had slow normals with shitty hitboxes nobody is mindfucking anyone.

He doesnt have to have advantage on his strings to be able to make you guess... good tools are comprised of speed, hitbox, movement AND frame adv on block and hit.

 

[ragnar0kz28]

I dont think Jax has adventage on Cage nor Raiden, FK, Smoke, Kung, and from the top 15 only Sektor I think can keep him out Jax is 6/4 for Cage, Raiden 5/5 FK is also 5/5 if not in Cages favour once Cage is in FK is dead Smoke might be 5/5 too but many struggle whit Cage Kung Lao is a bad one I give it for Cage 6/4, and from the 11 to 15 chars you mention Liu might be 5/5 dont know about that one tho Reptile same if Cage gets in hes dead same as Mileena, Ermac is helpless if Cage gets in.

Kitana is a 6/4 for her we all need to agree CD threw lots of matches for not zoning him out whit the life lead he had so many times this match in an other time would have been won by CD no questions ask.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

cage is definitly top 32. for sure

 

[smokey]

Plus, it shows who is the better player. Think about it, if one guy just plays Raiden exclusively, is he really better than the guy who plays 10 characters at a very high level?

If he worked on his bad matchups then he would probably win. Of course he is better.

If someone loses to you and goes straight to the strongest counter pick possible and beats you, is he a better player? Not necessarily, because in the 3rd match you will counter pick that character and take the round. You arent necessarily better,
you got the second counterpick. Great.

If both players picked their "main" and stuck by them, then you can win by making the right adjustments and learning while you play, you dont need to counterpick.