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O

OldManFGC

Noob
Eji1700 said:
Some more sub stuff (again not 100% sure if this is new patch only or just not really seen/talked about)

3 xx vapors now combos midscreen into:
f1,2 (tight)
2,1
3,4
b3,4
b4

and in the corner all of the above are easier, along with-
4,4 (tight)
1,2
d2

Of course if this didn't already exist when the fuck you'd ever 3 xx vapors is a damn good question. Probably only some weird edge case 10 frame only punish where for some reason you didn't want 2,1? I guess this gives you a way to get into b3,4 mid screen for a launcher for kameo's like mavado, but fuck i'm stretching here...

Also as someone who dipped for awhile there and just does not have the mental stack for Khameleon/Tremor, who's the next best kameo?

I rocked goro on launch but came to the conclusion that sub's kit is so lackluster without a kameo he just cannot afford to have someone who takes a week and a half to recharge. I assume sonja/kano/sareena are still fine. Anyone i'm missing?
Click to expand...
If you're not playing Khameleon, Janet, Sonya, or Ferra is best. Janet for meterless slide combos and armored slide combos, Sonya for zoning, armored slide combos, and (basically) safe 50/50s, or Ferra for some mix, extra health, buff (as that video shows), and a comboable throw.
 
E

Eji1700

Kombatant
Just blowing off some steam:
I'm still in training mode right now trying to get my muscle memory back, but playing sub again reminds me once again how undercooked he feels.

1. His core identity of "DO NOT ATTEMPT TO TRADE WITH THIS CHARACTER" is just neutered. Slide isn't going under anything reliably and ice ball isn't hitting anyone between the startup and kameos blocking it. IF you somehow hit the iceball it's probably a trade, and by the time you're done recovering you'll get a slide at best. It just blows my mind that he requires a kameo to have any fullscreen presence.

2. Deadly vapors is a super interesting concept, and yet I feel it rarely matters. There's some neat stuff to punish armored wakeups and the like, but often this unique move is relegated to combo extension.

3. Clone into slide into combo is one of my favorite things and I hate that it not only costs 2 bars to do, but also fucking blows.

It's extra weird that he's got his legs broken so badly, because it's not like counter zoning would be extremely strong in this game anyways. It seems that with the recent DLC characters having way more complete kits, and the recent path, they're moving towards giving characters a full kit at base so they have more choices in kameos, and I really hope that's the case. Still I think sub is going to need a bit more, and I hope it's in fixing some of the above rather than just making him also decent at being a blender (not that I don't love me some clone corner jail).

There's probably a lot of likely buffs, but I'd love if sub got his MK9 EX ice beam back and it pierced kameos, allowing you to freeze people for bad calls/catch jumps. I doubt that's ever going to happen for a lot of reasons, but god would it do wonders for his identity.

Edit-
And while i'm whinging, shujinko can combo into ice ball? Like i get it from a balance perspective but come on.

Oh and I forgot: WORST OF ALL WE HAVE SHIT BRUTALS.

Slide and the combo are fine, but they're all you ever see.

Punch rarely happens, and who the hell is landing ice ball with those conditions?, Both have the same issue D2 had where the physics don't feel right, because they're just "spawning" in the pieces and letting them fall, rather than inheriting the inertia of the hit that should send their torso/parts flying.

Vapors also feels lackluster since their lower body just vanishes. Having it freeze then shatter would give it more impact.
 
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O

OldManFGC

Noob
Eji1700 said:
Just blowing off some steam:
I'm still in training mode right now trying to get my muscle memory back, but playing sub again reminds me once again how undercooked he feels.

1. His core identity of "DO NOT ATTEMPT TO TRADE WITH THIS CHARACTER" is just neutered. Slide isn't going under anything reliably and ice ball isn't hitting anyone between the startup and kameos blocking it. IF you somehow hit the iceball it's probably a trade, and by the time you're done recovering you'll get a slide at best. It just blows my mind that he requires a kameo to have any fullscreen presence.

2. Deadly vapors is a super interesting concept, and yet I feel it rarely matters. There's some neat stuff to punish armored wakeups and the like, but often this unique move is relegated to combo extension.

3. Clone into slide into combo is one of my favorite things and I hate that it not only costs 2 bars to do, but also fucking blows.

It's extra weird that he's got his legs broken so badly, because it's not like counter zoning would be extremely strong in this game anyways. It seems that with the recent DLC characters having way more complete kits, and the recent path, they're moving towards giving characters a full kit at base so they have more choices in kameos, and I really hope that's the case. Still I think sub is going to need a bit more, and I hope it's in fixing some of the above rather than just making him also decent at being a blender (not that I don't love me some clone corner jail).

There's probably a lot of likely buffs, but I'd love if sub got his MK9 EX ice beam back and it pierced kameos, allowing you to freeze people for bad calls/catch jumps. I doubt that's ever going to happen for a lot of reasons, but god would it do wonders for his identity.

Edit-
And while i'm whinging, shujinko can combo into ice ball? Like i get it from a balance perspective but come on.

Oh and I forgot: WORST OF ALL WE HAVE SHIT BRUTALS.

Slide and the combo are fine, but they're all you ever see.

Punch rarely happens, and who the hell is landing ice ball with those conditions?, Both have the same issue D2 had where the physics don't feel right, because they're just "spawning" in the pieces and letting them fall, rather than inheriting the inertia of the hit that should send their torso/parts flying.

Vapors also feels lackluster since their lower body just vanishes. Having it freeze then shatter would give it more impact.
Click to expand...
His brutals really do suck. And I agree it's unfortunate that the only way he's really viable is with mix. Like sure, that can be one of his identities, I suppose, but his only one? Bleh.
 
ConeOnBricks

ConeOnBricks

Sub/Frost's Strongest (Only) Soldier
PSA that the Sub/Cyrax confirms are mad easy after the last patch. Now that you can designate which side you throw the opponent you don't get slot machine confirms which makes the team wicked strong. Definitely his best team for certain matchups where he can reliably slide punish important tools on reaction. He gets 480 off a raw slide for one bar, half kameo gauge, and fatal blow which I've used first hand for insane robbery potential. He's also got that Liu/Lao throw combo into looping oki going on which is obviously solid. Armored launcher too. For midscreen slide confirms you wanna call Cyrax neutral kameo during the point in the slide animation where sub actively raises the impaled opponent overhead. For the grab confirms you wanna call Cyrax up kameo at the point in the throw animation just after sub's ice beam disappears and stops freezing the opponent. The launch off ex slide is pretty lenient just make sure to call up kameo instead of neutral kameo.
 
mrapchem

mrapchem

Kombatant
ConeOnBricks said:
PSA that the Sub/Cyrax confirms are mad easy after the last patch. Now that you can designate which side you throw the opponent you don't get slot machine confirms which makes the team wicked strong. Definitely his best team for certain matchups where he can reliably slide punish important tools on reaction. He gets 480 off a raw slide for one bar, half kameo gauge, and fatal blow which I've used first hand for insane robbery potential. He's also got that Liu/Lao throw combo into looping oki going on which is obviously solid. Armored launcher too. For midscreen slide confirms you wanna call Cyrax neutral kameo during the point in the slide animation where sub actively raises the impaled opponent overhead. For the grab confirms you wanna call Cyrax up kameo at the point in the throw animation just after sub's ice beam disappears and stops freezing the opponent. The launch off ex slide is pretty lenient just make sure to call up kameo instead of neutral kameo.
Click to expand...
Have you got some gameplay of all this in action? I'd love to see this!
 
O

OldManFGC

Noob
ConeOnBricks said:
PSA that the Sub/Cyrax confirms are mad easy after the last patch. Now that you can designate which side you throw the opponent you don't get slot machine confirms which makes the team wicked strong. Definitely his best team for certain matchups where he can reliably slide punish important tools on reaction. He gets 480 off a raw slide for one bar, half kameo gauge, and fatal blow which I've used first hand for insane robbery potential. He's also got that Liu/Lao throw combo into looping oki going on which is obviously solid. Armored launcher too. For midscreen slide confirms you wanna call Cyrax neutral kameo during the point in the slide animation where sub actively raises the impaled opponent overhead. For the grab confirms you wanna call Cyrax up kameo at the point in the throw animation just after sub's ice beam disappears and stops freezing the opponent. The launch off ex slide is pretty lenient just make sure to call up kameo instead of neutral kameo.
Click to expand...
The Scorpion confirm got a lot easier after the last patch so it makes sense that Cyrax would, too. Thanks for the heads-up. Will definitely give it a try!
 
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