General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero General Discussion

[McChillin]

How do you connect slide after 123 in a combo? If I just do a raw 123 then slide the slide will come out but not in any other situation

 

[Dynasty]

How do you connect slide after 123 in a combo? If I just do a raw 123 then slide the slide will come out but not in any other situation

like after 242 RC? you gotta just time it right, or you can do 1 123 or 1 b12 or 1 f42 slide

 

[McChillin]

like after 242 RC? you gotta just time it right, or you can do 1 123 or 1 b12 or 1 f42 slide

The timing must be strict or something because I've been doing different timings & still can't get it to come out

 

[RM Truth]

Backdash. Pretty sure sub's negates all the MS options.

Good stuff though. Well done.

You can't backdash MS low. The mix-up is pretty good for Sub. Even if you don't have the meter to armor through, you can just backdash and clone, and she's back to playing your game anyways.

 

[JDE]

Not sure if this was posted, but after a hard knockdown & if they attack with an Ex move, his Ice sword that upper cuts (D2) beats some of them. I haven't tried all of them, just on Erron Black & Reptile. This is in Cryomancer. Wanted to see how decent the variation was before I went to Grandmaster. I'm more of a guy who likes to pressure & stay within a certain range than just zone.

 

[Dynasty]

The timing must be strict or something because I've been doing different timings & still can't get it to come out

not at all man, just time the run

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

You can't backdash MS low. The mix-up is pretty good for Sub. Even if you don't have the meter to armor through, you can just backdash and clone, and she's back to playing your game anyways.

With Ultra Davids OS blocking...... Sonya is now pretty irrelevant in covert if you know how to block properly and do this....
blocks everything that "should" be blocked (high/low is on you) and backdashes any gaps that can be back dashed.

wow.

 

[RM Ree]

I've got some technical questions about Sub's universal mechanics. Do we have frame data on things like his backdash, jump start up, and number of advantageous frames/ what distance his push is on his MB throw? Are these universal throughout the cast, and if not how does Sub stack up?

I'd like to know for situations where I could wake up back dash out of pressure, if following his +2 f12 blockstring with rising ji1 (5f + whatever jump is) is possible for tight pressure and how safe ending a corner combo with enhanced f-throw is.

 

[Embestone]

Someone posted in a thread about how Ermac's f34 whiffs on a sub-zero that is crouch blocking up close, and that it ONLY whiffs on sub. I also happened to play Forever king Jr's Jason (relentless) and he pointed out that one of jason's Mid's also whiffs on a low blocking sub-zero. Seems like sub-zero has an abnormal hurtbox when crouch blocking, and probably could use some investigating into what strings could whiff on him when they aren't suppose to.

 

[Qwark28]

It's known that he has a small hitbox, some of Kotal's stuff whiffs on him as well.

 

[Big Pampering]

It's known that he has a small hitbox, some of Kotal's stuff whiffs on him as well.

All my kung lao stuff connects on subzero fine iirc. Stuff like 112124 whiff on the last hit on characters like reptile and kung jin and often against female characters. All of kung laos raw teleport options connect on subzero too. This is weird because in mk9 it was almost always conistent when it came to which moves would connect or not connect on big, medium or low hitbox characters. In Mkx it's all over the place.

 

[Mr_Swizzer]

How do you connect slide after 123 in a combo? If I just do a raw 123 then slide the slide will come out but not in any other situation

Input the slide on 3 12 then on 3 input the slide

 

[RM Ree]

I'm not sure I understand the issue. 123 xx slide won't work for you in a combo? It's a faster string? But I mean you can input commands as fast as you want inside of strings and cancels.

 

[wessygator]

hey guys two questions. im trying to upgrade my combos in the corner. VS males off an overhear i do b2 242 b12 xx clone neutal jump fjp.1 does 32% and makes clone set up safe. my first question is if you guys have anything better i could do after clone. second question is what combo you guys do after a b33 starter and third what corner stuff do you guys do vs female characters? thanks in advance!

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

does anyone have a link for info on Sub Zero's option selects?

 

[Houndovhell]

does anyone have a link for info on Sub Zero's option selects?

http://testyourmight.com/threads/sub-zero-all-variations-option-select-thread.53234/
Thats the link to the TYM thread dedicated to the option selects of Ssub-Zero. They're all pretty simple and standard, but do not give sub-zero an significant edge in matchups.

 

[GRs_Prince]

Where is sub zero combo thread ? I did these idk if someone did them before

 

[crosshair271]

hey guys two questions. im trying to upgrade my combos in the corner. VS males off an overhear i do b2 242 b12 xx clone neutal jump fjp.1 does 32% and makes clone set up safe. my first question is if you guys have anything better i could do after clone. second question is what combo you guys do after a b33 starter and third what corner stuff do you guys do vs female characters? thanks in advance!

 

[AK cyusstrike]

Ok how does Sub deal with relentless Jason I don't have much experience with the mu any incite is welcomed thank you.

 

[RM Ree]

This would be a good question for the MU thread.

He has a safe, long range launcher string that we have to respect at mid screen. Clone and bait the teleport, punish it as best you can and put him in the corner. Don't jump in on this man as his armored grabs are great anti air options. Also be aware of his tick throw setups off of low pokes. Avoid and punish with njp

 

[xQUANTUMx]

This would be a good question for the MU thread.

He has a safe, long range launcher string that we have to respect at mid screen. Clone and bait the teleport, punish it as best you can and put him in the corner. Don't jump in on this man as his armored grabs are great anti air options. Also be aware of his tick throw setups off of low pokes. Avoid and punish with njp

@BiPolarExxpress

 

[KoldSpecter]

hey guys two questions. im trying to upgrade my combos in the corner. VS males off an overhear i do b2 242 b12 xx clone neutal jump fjp.1 does 32% and makes clone set up safe. my first question is if you guys have anything better i could do after clone. second question is what combo you guys do after a b33 starter and third what corner stuff do you guys do vs female characters? thanks in advance!

Corner low-starter - b33-iceball-jip-242-f12 - 22%, safe clone setup
Female overhead - b2-11-xx-iceball-njp-jip-f12 - 24%, safe clone setup

 

[True]

Anyone thinks sub zero Cyromancer is tournament capable? I own with that variation.

 

[RM Ree]

hey guys two questions. im trying to upgrade my combos in the corner. VS males off an overhear i do b2 242 b12 xx clone neutal jump fjp.1 does 32% and makes clone set up safe. my first question is if you guys have anything better i could do after clone. second question is what combo you guys do after a b33 starter and third what corner stuff do you guys do vs female characters? thanks in advance!

Using estimates to work the theory here...

Ending in "...njp, (jip), f12, (close) clone" gives you:
- f throw (into clone) ~30%, b throw (into clone) ~30%, b33 ~25%, and b2 ~35%. 4 mix up options, mid damage ~30%, meterless.

Ending in"... njp, (jbp), njk, (far) clone" gives you:
- f throw 12%, b throw (into clone) ~30%, b33 shatter ~40%, and b2 shatter ~45%. 4 mix up options, max damage, meterless.

Let's say the corner carry does ~25%. You'll need one less mix up to win with the max damage setup/ ender (njp, jbp, njk, far clone), albeit straying from SZ core meta of creating desperation with close clone. You can mix and match, account for armored reversal traps which freeze (clone, d4, freeze...), dropped combos, etc. The tools are here, incorporate this type of thinking when looking to level up your corner combo game.

 

[RM Ree]

Cryomancer is probably tournament viable. He can kill if he opens up an opponent 3 times, but so can a lot of other characters.

Cryomancer is /not/ a mix up variation, and hammer should not typically be used as such as both versions are highly reactable. His strength is his indiscriminate damage in relation to screen position, and how fast he paces the match with short, damaging combos resetting to true neutral (cold blooded string is essential). Neutral becomes a strength when the player knows both SZ as well as the opponents options. Well placed d4 leads to frame trap b12, and that leads to damage. This is gospel for Cryomancer players.

He has a unique meter management meta where SZ can forgo ex crushing hammer for ice ball, converting comparable damage conversions until the opponent uses a breaker, and then go in for max damage hammer combos when there's no fear of losing a precious bar to a breaker. Ie, ex crushing hammer should be gated behind your opponents abundance of meter.

His ability to counter zone, with ice ball trades or ex ice blast beating zoning completely, makes him dangerous from all ranges. In matches where clone is borderline useless (Special Forces Sonya), rush down may be more of an asset than clone meta.

It'd be an uphill battle, but a testament to skill if you can do it successfully. The issue is he does many things well, but too many characters do what he can, only objectively better.