General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero General Discussion

[KoldSpecter]

Been experimenting in lab and got this.
So, everyone love midscreen 30% combo? jip-b12-freeze-jip-242-run-123-slide.
It's really good, but got one problem - b12 it-6 frames on block, so it gives an opportunity to punish you
What i've found is midcreen 28% combo, where the link before freeze is safe - 0 on block, if hits give you free freeze and got much more simple input.
So if opponent doesnt block, you just hit confirm in freeze, if blocked - you're completely safe.
Input is: jip-4-freeze-242-run-f42-throw (as the last sting it could be f33-slide(28%) or 123slide(27%) or f42slide(27%), 31% for cryomancer, so not that bad, when you risk nothing, huh?

 

[Runninonwater]

Hello guys! Just wondering one thing: How minus is sub zeros F3,3 on block? I can't punish it with a 7 frame startup D2 with kenshi and that's his fastest normal as far as i know.

Can't even punish him with a 6 frame normal from Liu Kang.
Even goros grab whiffs if he jumps straight up. Sure i can D1 into Grab if he jumps but still.

I want to know how to punish this move, enlighten me.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Landonio]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but can I just get a clear list of EVERYTHING that was changed concerning Sub post-patch with his Grandmaster variation and everything I need to do to account for these changes? I know about the clone going away on block now, but what doesn't work anymore, etc.? Because I was under the impression that certain combos didn't work anymore based off of what everyone was saying, such as the big damage ice shatter corner combos, but those still work just fine for me. The B+3, 3>Shatter corner variation honestly seems EASIER after the patch. Hell, the double B+2 standard corner combo seems much more consistent after the patch for me as well. I know that you can't start your combo immediately after you clone like you could before, but other than that I don't really understand what the problem with combos is (other than having to modify them for females, which is BS).

 

[Deezxnutz]

Hello guys! Just wondering one thing: How minus is sub zeros F3,3 on block? I can't punish it with a 7 frame startup D2 with kenshi and that's his fastest normal as far as i know.

Can't even punish him with a 6 frame normal from Liu Kang.
Even goros grab whiffs if he jumps straight up. Sure i can D1 into Grab if he jumps but still.

I want to know how to punish this move, enlighten me.

Thank you in advance.

It's -4

 

[Runninonwater]

It's -4

Thanks for the answer!

 

[souchiro]

Another video of Sub-Zero Kombos and Kombos with Brutality! (transcribed XboxOne Buttons)

 

[STK]

Why should i use unbreakable over grandmaster?

 

[nfdsallwd]

is there any reason to pick grandmaster against dvorah? she doesnt give a fuck about ice clones

 

[darthbrooks]

jip-4-freeze

Can't they just duck under the 4?

 

[ManjoumeThunder]

Why should i use unbreakable over grandmaster?

is there any reason to pick grandmaster against dvorah? she doesnt give a fuck about ice clones

I guess that'd be the time to use unbreakable.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I guess that'd be the time to use unbreakable.

Dvorah doesn't give a fuck about Ice shield either and can punish it really hard, from anywhere at -40. GM still gives you safe clone cancels, stronger wall combos, and Ice blast for AA, 3 things Unbreakable can't. So unless you really value that Ice Aura, I don't think Unbreakable is the right one for this match up either

 

[Lokheit]

It's -4

My fav normal from Subbie.

PC version lists the BK ADV. as -35 but that's a typo and not even Kung Lao's EX Cyclone at 4 frames start up can punish it. It hits low during the string, it's cancellable after the low (allowing a low-overhead string in Cryomancer), it's our second fastest string (with longer reach than 1, which makes it better in cases where the opponent ends at some distance) and if you don't cancel it sends the opponent far away with more advantange than the untechable slide, allowing you to safely throw an Iceball to cover the wake up of anyone that can't either teleport or armor a long reach charge.

 

[ManjoumeThunder]

Dvorah doesn't give a fuck about Ice shield either and can punish it really hard, from anywhere at -40. GM still gives you safe clone cancels, stronger wall combos, and Ice blast for AA, 3 things Unbreakable can't. So unless you really value that Ice Aura, I don't think Unbreakable is the right one for this match up either

Unbreakable has ice blast (and slide, both are Sub universal specials). He does lose those two clone based pluses.

EDIT: unless you mean shatter

 

[I GOT HANDS]

MY bad I was indeed referring to shatter, that's why I mentioned it as AA

 

[AniMoney]

Well in matchups where clone isn't useful, like Dvorah, maybe Cryomancer instead of Unbreakable then? Get a little more damage and the standing reset with the f421+3 ender.

 

[The Slaj Jazz]

Is D4 safe?

 

[zoofs]

Is D4 safe?

its -6 so for the most part, yes.

 

[AniMoney]

Who do you guys think is a good alt for Sub? Trying to find some other characters to pick up alongside him.

 

[Creepy00]

Who do you guys think is a good alt for Sub? Trying to find some other characters to pick up alongside him.

In my opinion, I think a rushdown (mobility) character, such as Kung lao or Sonya, is a good alt for Sub. Preferably, you would want someone who can both cover heavy zoning characters (e.g. Cybernetic Kano, Balanced Kenshi, etc) and go hand-to-hand against other rushdown/mix-up characters. Also, keep in mind that the game currently favors the attacker over defense.

 

[AniMoney]

In my opinion, I think a rushdown (mobility) character, such as Kung lao or Sonya, is a good alt for Sub. Preferably, you would want someone who can both cover heavy zoning characters (e.g. Cybernetic Kano, Balanced Kenshi, etc) and go hand-to-hand against other rushdown/mix-up characters. Also, keep in mind that the game currently favors the attacker over defense.

Cool, I've actually been kinda interested in Tempest Lao after seeing some of the YOMI guys play him.

 

[Landonio]

Anybody care to answer my question.

 

[Dynasty]

Anybody care to answer my question.

Just klone gone on block and cooldown a bit, nothing that bad though just have to extend b2 combo if you land it while klone is still out

 

[JDE]

Is there any tech for Cryomancer that was found?

 

[STK]

I know what would make Unbreakable SZ good! Armor on ex Barrier. mabey making it 0 on hit or turning down the recovery..

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Assuming you are talking about the Aura, it's already really safe and easy to get up, so this wouldn't be a significant buff at all, barely relevant if you are using it right to be honest.

If you are talking about the parry... it already is armour right? Blocks a hit and freezes, not sure what you are saying here. Dropping the recovery on it would be nice, as the problem is, unlike Ice Clone which is FAIRLY safe to use (no, not unpunishable, but it often takes meter and even then not always), but the -40 on Ice Parry basically means, you either freeze them and get a 20% combo punish best case scenario ( ), or you whiff it and they get a full combo punish which for other characters is often double ours.