General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero General Discussion

[RunwayMafia]

The fact that the SZ community has taken this in stride and Brady hasn't decapitated anyone with an ice sword makes me so proud of the Lin Kuei.

Also: I, too, want to see more Unbreakable. I trust @RunwayMafia 's judgement, and my hope is that GM being toned down will lead to more
The fact that the SZ community has taken this in stride and Brady hasn't decapitated anyone with an ice sword makes me so proud of the Lin Kuei.

Also: I, too, want to see more Unbreakable. I trust @RunwayMafia 's judgement, and my hope is that GM being toned down will lead to more exploration.

Let me preface this response with the fact that I believe Subzero is one of the few characters in the game with the most diverse and useful set of variations.

I think Unbreakable is amazing in certain MU's but you really have to be psychotically patient and very smart with the parry. (I go back and forth with parry being good because of its full combo punishable recovery frames).

Grandmaster is the best variation but not BY FAR as some here swear by it. Solid fundamental players dont even need clones to wreck good players. He has fantastic core moves/normals that make him solid IN GENERAL (B2, B12, 11, B33, F33, reversal slide, etc., etc.,)

Which leads me to Cryomancer: I'm loving this variation. The damage alone makes this variation stand alone, imo. If you can punish, play footsies, and hit confirm....yeah, you can win with his other two variations.

Dont get me wrong, Grandmaster is awesome, but clone isnt the sole reason sub players are or SHOULD be winning with him.

/my .02[/QUOTE]

 

[Flawlessjunito9]

I been testing this in the lab but it seems that you can combo b3,3 or 1,2 into regular ice ball with out being in the corner but in order for it 2 work u have to make sure that only the second hit connects and u have to be close, also make sure the second hit connects a little late....example the most consistent one i found is b,2 run b3,3 to regular ice ball, remeber only second hit haves to connect and try to be close to opponet in order 4 it to work.Their are other ways to do it with both feel free to try,also becareful on people who likes to delay wake up i think u can still do it but i havent tried yet. Later

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Let me preface this response with the fact that I believe Subzero is one of the few characters in the game with the most diverse and useful set of variations.

I think Unbreakable is amazing in certain MU's but you really have to be psychotically patient and very smart with the parry. (I go back and forth with parry being good because of its full combo punishable recovery frames).

Grandmaster is the best variation but not BY FAR as some here swear by it. Solid fundamental players dont even need clones to wreck good players. He has fantastic core moves/normals that make him solid IN GENERAL (B2, B12, 11, B33, F33, reversal slide, etc., etc.,)

Which leads me to Cryomancer: I'm loving this variation. The damage alone makes this variation stand alone, imo. If you can punish, play footsies, and hit confirm....yeah, you can win with his other two variations.

Dont get me wrong, Grandmaster is awesome, but clone isnt the sole reason sub players are or SHOULD be winning with him.

/my .02

[/QUOTE]

1. I LOVE being psychotically patient .
2. I agree with you in that he's a great character built with 3 totally seperate but equally capable. I really feel like this is a character on which NRS went the extra mile to insure would be good if not great in all his incarnations.
3. I'm literally torn in threes between his variations.
Grandmaster is most familiar to me because Clone.
Cryomancer = damage, and raw damage is a huge factor in this game.
Unbreakable = my favorite variation by far because I'm by nature a defensive statured player (and I still remember the joy that was Doomsday's trait) and i feel like this variation is in dire need of more exploration.

 

[RunwayMafia]

1. I LOVE being psychotically patient .
2. I agree with you in that he's a great character built with 3 totally seperate but equally capable. I really feel like this is a character on which NRS went the extra mile to insure would be good if not great in all his incarnations.
3. I'm literally torn in threes between his variations.
Grandmaster is most familiar to me because Clone.
Cryomancer = damage, and raw damage is a huge factor in this game.
Unbreakable = my favorite variation by far because I'm by nature a defensive statured player (and I still remember the joy that was Doomsday's trait) and i feel like this variation is in dire need of more exploration.[/QUOTE]

Unbreakable is badass. I'm a huge fan of Aura. I just want the recovery on parry to be less, but meh.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Unbreakable is badass. I'm a huge fan of Aura. I just want the recovery on parry to be less, but meh.

I feel like, in the long term, there's going to be more to gain from the strength of the Aura and Parry than the strength of the Clone/Throw. But between all 3 styles, he may have uniquities capable of serving him well in most MUs between them. There's no character who blows up Sub any more dramatically than they blow up anyone else from what I can tell. But it's still early.

#TheUnbreakableBox

 

[Nihi]

Guys, just trying our SZ for the first time so newcomer question. I'm seeing B12xxclone listed in combos.. any advice for the timing on this? Because 9 times out of ten SZ moved back in the animation of clone spawn, but doesn't actually spawn one?

*Edit* I've realised this only happen when I have people right up in the corner as far I can go. I'm guessing the clone would spawn straight into them and the game wants to prevent this, so it does the animation but doesn't deploy the clone.

 

[VengeanceIsMine]

SZ to me still feels good. i know some of the people on here are complaining that he got over nerfed but i still feel hes easily 10. clone is still amazing at controlling the neutral u have to respect it and now i have to think more when i play and worry about clone dissapearing when i block, nothing better than back dashing and having a opponent crash into the clone lmfao

 

[McChillin]

Do you guys know if NRS plans on removing the other option selects? I don't wanna learn SZ's F4 option select just for them to remove it.

 

[Immortal Reaver]

Do you guys think that Kano's knives need to be nerfed in Cybernetic? Their recovery is almost nothing and you can throw them almost non stop. It can be hard to even jump over them sometimes. You also can't effectively trade with them. Not even with an EX ice ball with Sub-Zero. You need to use meter to get through his knives most of the time. If you use a teleport character, their input will just turn into an automatic upball punish. I would even put out an ice clone then throw an ice ball, and Kano can throw a knife to detroy the clone then have more than enough time to block the ice ball. I would even start a teleport with Ermac as Kano was throwing a knife out, and he would have enough time to block and full punish.

 

[Qwark28]

Do you guys think that Kano's knives need to be nerfed in Cybernetic? Their recovery is almost nothing and you can throw them almost non stop. It can be hard to even jump over them sometimes. You also can't effectively trade with them. Not even with an EX ice ball with Sub-Zero. You need to use meter to get through his knives most of the time. If you use a teleport character, their input will just turn into an automatic upball punish. I would even put out an ice clone then throw an ice ball, and Kano can throw a knife to detroy the clone then have more than enough time to block the ice ball. I would even start a teleport with Ermac as Kano was throwing a knife out, and he would have enough time to block and full punish.

no

 

[Immortal Reaver]

no

Thanks for your useful and informative post. Please care to explain why?

 

[Embestone]

Thanks for your useful and informative post. Please care to explain why?

I'm not quark, but maybe I can help you out. Those zoning tools is pretty much the only thing that character has. When I play him as GM sub-zero, I just usually stick with the classic, block and walk. As you said, trading with him can be difficult. That said, when you're in, he doesn't have many options. You take those knives away, then you might as well remove the char from the game.

Edit: You can also slide underneath them.

 

[Immortal Reaver]

I'm not quark, but maybe I can help you out. Those zoning tools is pretty much the only thing that character has. When I play him as GM sub-zero, I just usually stick with the classic, block and walk. As you said, trading with him can be difficult. That said, when you're in, he doesn't have many options. You take those knives away, then you might as well remove the char from the game.

Edit: You can also slide underneath them.

You can't block and walk. I'm in Practice right now with a recorded AI throwing the knives as fast as possible. But I did not know that you could slide under them. That makes a difference.

 

[Endeavor]

You can't block and walk. I'm in Practice right now with a recorded AI throwing the knives as fast as possible. But I did not know that you could slide under them. That makes a difference.

Yea, you slide under them, put him in the corner and Go ape shit.

 

[shredderbeast666]

I really like sub and will definitely be playing him a lot. You guys can copy anything I do with him competitively. Grandmaster tom will be giving out a lot of sub tech. Everybody else get back in the lab and find some more sub stuff so we can destroy all those fools that are not part of the Lin Kuei aha

Just my quick little Cryomancer combo (this is not my main variation, but I use all three)
JIP b1,2 Ice Ball, JIP f1,2,2, 2,4 EX Frost Hammer, f4,2 throw
35% w/ 1 meter burn

 

[Qwark28]

Just my quick little Cryomancer combo (this is not my main variation, but I use all three)
JIP b1,2 Ice Ball, JIP f1,2,2, 2,4 EX Frost Hammer, f4,2 throw
35% w/ 1 meter burn

There are 40% combos with one bar.

Using iceball outside of a few specific instances is a complete waste with QQmancer.

 

[Immortal Reaver]

Just my quick little Cryomancer combo (this is not my main variation, but I use all three)
JIP b1,2 Ice Ball, JIP f1,2,2, 2,4 EX Frost Hammer, f4,2 throw
35% w/ 1 meter burn

B2, Run, F42 1+3. 31% meterless overhead starter

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Cryo should always link openers into ex hammer for max damage.

unless your'e going for a standing vortex off an ice ball.

Landing an open space ice ball is really the perfect time to simply jip b12 and then use the advantage to go into a 50/50. Pretty demorilizing when SZ drops over 50% on you.

Considering doing something like... b33~exHammer (step) b2 f421+3 does such tremendous damage and requires no stamina.

 

[BasiKs]

There are 40% combos with one bar.

Using iceball outside of a few specific instances is a complete waste with QQmancer.

jiP, b12~ice ball, jiP, f112, b2, run f421+3
is also 35% for 0 bars. His highest damage of a jiP w/ no meter.

 

[gconceptz]

Can someone post a list of the known option selects for sub? I think that list would be really helpful for everyone's gameplay seeing as these OS situations are appearing heavily in tournament play.

Thanks!

 

[Deezxnutz]

You can't block and walk. I'm in Practice right now with a recorded AI throwing the knives as fast as possible. But I did not know that you could slide under them. That makes a difference.

You can also low profile under them with D4

 

[Rebelo]

Ahh I tried to put a esl in the bag for us but got 2nd it was till the last match that I downloaded his jjummpy Sonya style of play but it was to late

 

[rdw]

Ahh I tried to put a esl in the bag for us but got 2nd it was till the last match that I downloaded his jjummpy Sonya style of play but it was to late

I almost lost my voice screaming "JUMP THE MILITARY STANCE" lol.... wish you could hear.

 

[LiangHuBBB]

how to deal with ice clone

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Ahh I tried to put a esl in the bag for us but got 2nd it was till the last match that I downloaded his jjummpy Sonya style of play but it was to late

Backdash. Pretty sure sub's negates all the MS options.

Good stuff though. Well done.