Sub-Zero General Discussion Thread

[Braindead]

Conflicts means some equippable moves can't be equipped with others. The "replacing" is something else.

 

[LucaVilla16]

Fellas

Let me get the opinions

What is the better variation? (for you)

Imo, the deep freeze makes up for not having slide. I dont find myself using air ice axe, frigid storm or the icicles. Cold shoulder is just as punishable as slide, so is the damage the only thing it has over shoulder?

EX ice ball also has good combo potential.

These are just my thoughts. Let me know what you all think

-LucaVilla

 

[GLoRToR]

Anyone got his second fatality? Some says fdf others say bdb 4 mid range but neither seems to work.

 

[patmc93]

What does lord Tom Brady think of sub?

 

[Lokheit]

Wow, the first variation really is a mix of his 2 most overrated (by the game slots) moves.

Shoulder charge is slow, barely more damaging than slide, lacks the utility... It costs one slot AND one base move, slide is better and is base with no slots cost. If shoulder charge costed 0 slots I would still prefer keeping slide.

Ex Iceball is ok... But unlike MKX, regular Iceball has good damage scaling so it's just useful for projectile trades and making the overhead connect. At the cost of 1 bar to access it, 2 slots look like a freaking lot to pay for it.

The whole variation feels like you're not getting any value for your 3 slots to be honest.

IMO charge shouldn't remove slide (Reptile had both in MKX) and/or Deep Freeze cost 1 slot so something else can be put there.

Btw, fun fact, it looks like at some point F2 was supposed to meterlessly combo into Iceball as the character tutorial mentions it, they forgot to remove that text.

 

[RM Ree]

F4 is pretty great as an oki tool. Hitting meaty gets as much as +7. At that advantage, b3 will stuff anything but a 6f poke.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Ya know?

I like him

 

[Imperium]

Custom variation sub has a lit of options to be fun and good.

If they give a good tournament variation, I'll be satisfied with his kit on the whole.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I think thin ice is honestly pretty good. It’s not how I would equip him but I think it’s good. Iv been trying a lot of characters and have browsed a lot of forums. Almost everyone feels underwhelmed with their character’s tourney variations. In the context of tournament variations, Sub is doing good I think. At least thin ice, the other one is garbage.

One thing I love about him is how practical his krushing blows are. The slide one is super easy to set up and have in your back pocket and it does sooooo much damage. 124 is good too and can basically be used whenever you want if you combo someone. Even though B1 is a high I still think it’s a great normal because of its range, and once again comparing it to other normals in the game it’s good. Even JOHNNY lacks a super fast mid. And then of course we have a 50/50 we can use if we want.

It would be nice if amplified ice ball was in his base kit, not entirely sure why it isn’t.

 

[Lokheit]

Yeah I guess Thin Ice is not that bad in context... But 36 frames projectiles are cringy when you compare with everything else (including Noob's 42 frames unblockable that is closer to those frames than most mids).

About his krushing blows, probably the most impractical is the F24 one as you have to punish with a 19 frames move. The string has to be the punish, you can't punish with a combo and end with the string.

He's been labelled everywhere as a 50/50 character when really he only has it if he picks a crappy variation, otherwise it's just a 2 buttons string leading to nothing.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Yeah I guess Thin Ice is not that bad in context... But 36 frames projectiles are cringy when you compare with everything else (including Noob's 42 frames unblockable that is closer to those frames than most mids).

About his krushing blows, probably the most impractical is the F24 one as you have to punish with a 19 frames move. The string has to be the punish, you can't punish with a combo and end with the string.

He's been labelled everywhere as a 50/50 character when really he only has it if he picks a crappy variation, otherwise it's just a 2 buttons string leading to nothing.

I think people are getting disappointed because they see projectiles and think “zoner” when clearly he’s not meant to zone hard. Then the 50/50 which got him labeled as a 50/50 character which will get you killed pretty fast if you rely only on it. The overhead is good though used sparingly, a lot of characters don’t even have that.

I think he’s in line with most of the other characters. Liu Kang is a beast all around but he doesn’t have much range. Scorpion has great strings but his frame data is abysmal. I definitely don’t think Sub is especially bad. I don’t think he’s anything special really either but he’s okay

 

[Knoterror]

I disagree with the consensus that Ice Ball “zoning” is bad, if you have Deep Freeze that is. DF is what makes it work, and can’t be ducked. Obviously don’t overuse it, but I think it’s viable.

 

[KwanTsu]

Anyone got his second fatality? Some says fdf others say bdb 4 mid range but neither seems to work.

fdf4 works for me.

 

[Samsara]

My problem with Sub is that he feels gimped and uninteresting. Is he bad? I dont think so. He just seems vanilla af.

Why is EX ice ball a variation move instead of standard? Why is MK11 the game where he has to sacrifice for it. 2 slots feels way too expensive.

All of his interesting defensive moves are absent. Frost Parry, Ice Aura, Ice Burst, etc.

No interesting offensive moves are back. Frost Hammer might be a little too wild for MK11 but having the stabby stab command grab would have been neat to see.

I'm not even gonna get into the lack of clone (which could have been forgiven if they gave us better tools to play with).

Everything about him seems like they have been dialing him back to the point where he just isnt fun anymore. He has less variation options than most characters because half of his moves require 2 slots. Combo structure is incredibly boring.

I'm glad F4 is good for oki makes me feel like his corner game might develop as the game goes on.

My last gripe is to make the full B143 connect after B2 midscreen. That's just a luxury request.

 

[Braindead]

Wait until you find out that your wakeup u3 and d1 and the storm projectile can all get low profiled

 

[SubZeroIce]

My last gripe is to make the full B143 connect after B2 midscreen. That's just a luxury request.

If you hit B2 midscreen you can immediately follow through with an iceball, followed by a jump in 1 & B143 amplified slide. It's high risk because the input for iceball is kinda tight & B2 isn't super fast but it's good for a meaty mid screen punish.

 

[Lokheit]

Yeah I'm feeling the "vanilla design", MKX Subbie was a lot more imaginative even without the klone. Even his regular moves were more "charismatic" with his feet always sliding on ice. In a game about kustomization he's missing literally every unbreakable and cryomancer moves (and of course GM), slide got worse (slower and doesn't duck mids) and he has to pay 66% of the kustomization slots for something he had as a base move before.

Add some unimaginative gear (only one type of weapon when he had 3 before, weird kunais as gear option that he doesn't even use rather than more personal stuff like icy arms or GM medallion...) and combined with his moveset design he feels extremely bland right now. I will keep maining him because it's my fav character, but it really feels like they made him vanilla and bland. Even the concept art on the menus where he fights scorpion using a couple of ice blades look more interesting.

FFS they put so little interest on him that even the big axe is always the base one rather than changing to look like the equipped ones.

 

[Savage8-8]

So maybe I missed it but is there a krushing blow list in game? Also there are defaults on sub in practice mode that aren't the tourney variations. Do we need to equip it ourselves to practice these?

 

[Lokheit]

So maybe I missed it but is there a krushing blow list in game? Also there are defaults on sub in practice mode that aren't the tourney variations. Do we need to equip it ourselves to practice these?

If you check each move and special on the pause menu the ones with krushing blows are noted with their conditions.

The list of presets is a weird mess with incomplete presets, you can always select one that looks close to what you have in mind and then change it a bit. Tournament variations have to be equipped this way (they're marked with a cup) on casual mode which is weird (the main 2 variations can ve restored to original state, looks like these should be the tournament ones by default).

 

[Samsara]

So maybe I missed it but is there a krushing blow list in game? Also there are defaults on sub in practice mode that aren't the tourney variations. Do we need to equip it ourselves to practice these?

If you go through the novelist it tells you what moves Krushing Blow. You have to set the tournament variations yourself.

 

[Braindead]

Ugh this character forever not functioning properly

 

[Lokheit]

Ugh this character forever not functioning properly

Props for your variation name xD

 

[Samsara]

Ugh this character forever not functioning properly

This character is buggy as all hell, huh?

 

[Braindead]

This character is buggy as all hell, huh?

Kitana can do it too. I'm sure more characters can low profile it

 

[DomShinobi]

I like him alot. He feels very old skool. His classic kombos still work. He aint no Geras or Jax but he can chain into ice ball basically from everything and he is so smooth and easy to play, very relaxing compared to some other kharacters. His tournament variations are all dogpoo for real. His ice clone replacement isnt the same but it is fun to use as a trap move.