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Sub-Zero General Discussion Thread

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Lokheit

Lokheit

Noob
ogrimtitan said:
Thanks very much! So are we thinking ground freeze might actually be superior to ice clone-lite if we got either in a tournament variation?
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It's looking like midscreen it might be because it doesn't have much negatives. You have to sacrifice damage (and with further testing I'm seeing that sometimes after the crossover combo they're punished for using a get up, but avoid the puddle if they don't do anything because they're right in the limit so maybe the string has to be ended at B14GroundFreeze rather than B143).

Midscreen Artic Trap sort of stops straight melee opponents, but it doesn't stop projectiles or teleports so it's not like you build a fort to start throwing iceballs. In the corner though the setup is safe against wakeup U3 unlike ground freeze, so they're forced to wake up blocking. I need a lot more testing with both moves to be honest, but they're looking like they got potential.

Once you start experimenting with some of his kustom moves, this is actually a fun character, the problem is that they got the worst and most boring moves for his tournament variations so playing "official Subbie" is boring AF.

So far I'm also seeing that compared with the rest of the cast, he actually has very good neutral and wakeup options (as long as they fix the low profiling under U3) and it's overal hard to punish if he hit confirms properly, after the initial impressions I think the character can be good, but he needs different tourney variations.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
We have a couple glaring advantages in the Jax MU.
  • 22 1+3, f2 1+3 and f33 1+3 can all be flawless blocked/ launched for like 30%.
  • 22 1+3/ 22 d3 mix is ruined due to SZ crouching hurt box low profiling 2nd hit mid. Crouch block, neutral jump beats both options cleanly.
 
One Inch Punch

One Inch Punch

Noob
I ve gone to play mk11 at my friend's house and I ve noticed that thin ice subzero had amplified ice ball instead of the dead of winter variation. weird.
 
ogrimtitan

ogrimtitan

Noob
Curious what people would like to see in his tournament variations. Specifically, how people regard Rising Ice vs Kreeping Ice and Ground Ice vs Freezing Trap. Like if we had to choose one of each for a variation or something.
 
Samsara

Samsara

Resident Cynic
My ideal variations would be:

Dead of Winter - Arctic Trap, Cold Shoulder (same side ender for corner carry, setup)

Thin Ice - Ground Freeze, Ice Shards (tricky midscreen platstyle)

3rd - Creeping Ice, Rising Ice, Air Polar Axe (most straightforward aggressive variation with big damage and additional high low potential)

Deep freeze universal special. Make it cost both an offensive and defensive bar. Literary the dream.
 
darthbrooks

darthbrooks

Noob
is there a way to option select the iceball off F2 in dead of winter? my footsie game is so much stronger with thin ice. I keep myself safe, poke, hit confirm the b3,2 and take very little chances. with d.o.w. I get blown up going for the F2~iceball at least once a match despite trying to enforce low blocking.
 
Imperium

Imperium

Noob
At this point I'd just settle for getting Kreeping Ice paired with anything other than Cold Shoulder. I'd like Rising Ice too of course, but man he really needs some love with the variations and I think giving him a safe low cancel is the special sauce for it
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
Samsara said:
My ideal variations would be:

Dead of Winter - Arctic Trap, Cold Shoulder (same side ender for corner carry, setup)

Thin Ice - Ground Freeze, Ice Shards (tricky midscreen platstyle)

3rd - Creeping Ice, Rising Ice, Air Polar Axe (most straightforward aggressive variation with big damage and additional high low potential)

Deep freeze universal special. Make it cost both an offensive and defensive bar. Literary the dream.
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Icicles is a useless move. It's only a gimmick that will be useful in week 1.
 
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Braindead said:
Icicles is a useless move. It's only a gimmick that will be useful in week 1.
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Confirmed, I had been using it to end blockstrings. People have already figured out that you can punish/jump/etc. It's terrible.

Any tips for using the Thin Ice variation tho?

Cause as it is... seems I either need to switch to Dead of Winter or drop sub. =/
 
Ck AeroVoid

Ck AeroVoid

Mk Casual, KI God
STB Sgt Reed said:
Confirmed, I had been using it to end blockstrings. People have already figured out that you can punish/jump/etc. It's terrible.

Any tips for using the Thin Ice variation tho?

Cause as it is... seems I either need to switch to Dead of Winter or drop sub. =/
Click to expand...
ibut hey if you do drop subbie, ya got frost-y Cone as well!
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
STB Sgt Reed said:
Confirmed, I had been using it to end blockstrings. People have already figured out that you can punish/jump/etc. It's terrible.

Any tips for using the Thin Ice variation tho?

Cause as it is... seems I either need to switch to Dead of Winter or drop sub. =/
Click to expand...
Instant air axe from outside sweep distance is like +2 and +3 on block so that's something
 
KingHippo

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
I got 2nd at the Arizona MK11 Launch Tourney with Sub, but I don't have the VoD yet. Will update when I do, had a real good set with DetroitBallin where I overcame his Kabal that I think was a fun watch.
 
EarlyReflections

EarlyReflections

Noob
Hi, it's impossible for me to read 21 pages and I want to ask/ discuss a few things.

1. Is the icicles projectile a blockstring ender - space gain move? Was severely punished by Jacquie yesterday.

2. The ground freeze is unblockable, but seems you can't further confirm any hit if the opponent blocks. You just trap him.
If the amplified version is used to end a blockstring, not only doesn't trap the opponent, but the blocked hit registers as low. Not unblockable. Is this a bug?
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Noob
Braindead said:
Instant air axe from outside sweep distance is like +2 and +3 on block so that's something
Click to expand...
Yeah, the depressing thing is that while that's one fo Sub's best kustom moves, I was doing a comparison with most diagonal projectiles in the game (Jade, Kabal, Noob...) and it doesn't compare well.

The damage is fine but the start up (20 compared to the 14 or 16 of the other) could be much better. Some of the others are as good on block and some even knock down. I like it's angle more than some though.

I think if the move was 16-17 frames and/or 2-3 more hit advantage (to allow for proper flashy combos in corner juggles) it would be right there to be comparable with what most of the cast got. A slightly faster+faster recovery Air Axe would allow for some cool stuff with Rising Ice, which allows you to to use it on hit but right now you can't squeeze anything worth it in the corner.

It's sad that the only good move in our official variations isn't even that good. For some reason someone decided that every single Subbie projectile must be particularly slow. At least it's not as bad as his 2 freaking 36 frames projectiles (both of thos could be 24 frames and still compared negatively to what most characters got).
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
EarlyReflections said:
Hi, it's impossible for me to read 21 pages and I want to ask/ discuss a few things.

1. Is the icicles projectile a blockstring ender - space gain move? Was severely punished by Jacquie yesterday.
Click to expand...
It’s unsafe on both start up and recovery. It’s a high risk/ low reward way to punish a reckless opponent trying to counter poke, or to mildly chip an opponent. I guess it could blow through last breath being multi-hit.

Fun fact: it’s a DoT on hit, although it does very little damage.
 
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