Sub-Zero General Discussion Thread

[Braindead]

Who picked up Sub among good players? I want to watch some high level streams.

No one because he's a trash character and no one wants to bother with him

 

[Lokheit]

The opponent can break away between slide and amplified slide -___-

Watch out for that when you think you're closing out the match with inescapable combos. Some people I play against already started catching onto that.

Ok I've been testing it and at the point where they can it's a bit stupid to use the resources. Sure, you ignore around 4.3% damage, but sub doesn't get into the animation so no advantage and if sub wasn't going to use meter the defensive bars are wasted for nothing. Let them do it.

 

[Braindead]

Ok I've been testing it and at the point where they can it's a bit stupid to use the resources. Sure, you ignore around 4.3% damage, but sub doesn't get into the animation so no advantage and if sub wasn't going to use meter the defensive bars are wasted for nothing. Let them do it.

Subzero can waste the bar on amplifying the slide and they drop out of it. And again you should keep your eye on that when you think you're closing out the match with an inescapable combo.

 

[Lokheit]

So far there are only 3 moves that I consider worth including in any variation (only one of them is in an actual tournament variation):

- (Air) Polar Axe: I'm a sucker for diagonal air projectiles, so I might be a bit biased, but out all of his projectiles this one looks like the most useful (20 frames compared to 36 from the others). Can jump over projectiles and counter from there, use it to change the amount of time you are airborne and fake jump in attacks to punish anti-airs.

- Rising Ice: Sub is a completly different character with this. Damage goes up all around and he gets 50/50 from F2 without needing Deep Freeze (in fact you get more damaging combos as you can continue with B2-> Iceball). Meterless Rising Ice is +42 so it will be useful too for Ground Freeze and Arctic Trap setups as a combo ender.

- Kreeping Ice: Mix ups and mind games on block for safety. Very solid move.

About the others:

- Deep Freeze: The utility is there, but 2 slots is a HUGE LOT to ask for what this does. Rising Ice already gives you access to better 50/50s, so the main reason to use this is to counter-zone, and for a meter bar every time you do it. Change it to 1 slot and it might be on the level of the others. MKX Sub had this as a base move, so it looks lame that this is a kustom one that takes 66% of your slots.

- Frigid Storm: 36 freaking frames for a mid projectile (there are unblockable ones that are barely slower than this) and also very glitchy in terms of how it can be low profiled.

- Death-Cicle Barrage: Another 36 frames projectiles... only that it's not even a projectile (more like a long reach attack). The main utility is to remove the last gasp mechanic, but still too slow and too unsafe: even with the step back, you're easily punishable after using this. Other than chipping for the kill, there is no real utility here and that's too situational.

- Cold Shoulder: HUGE TURD OF A MOVE. It forces you to lose Slide, while being much worse than it:

* Still veeeeery unsafe.

* Only goes half screen or less instead of full screen.

* It's no longer a low.

* Doesn't go under high projectiles.

* Only slightly increased damage, and when you consider you lose the corner B32Slide juggle, you can argue that it's even less damage on average.

* MB whiffs in the corner in certain combos.

Even if the move didn't replace Slide it wouldn't be good, so at least it could be its own move (like MKX Reptile that had Slide and Charge).

- Ground Freeze: I'm still trying to find the right setups for this move. It's a slow but it could have some potential. My main proble with it is that the meterless version puts on a "nutpunch" state (opponent can't move but can block) BUT you can't grab them, so it throws away part of the following mix-up.

- Arctic Trap: Also trying to find the right setups. The main problem compared to the klone is that it puts the trap in front (so over the opponent) and there aren't many ways to put yourself at the right distance after a knockdown without sacrificing all your combo damage.


Looking at the amount of kustom moves other characters have and what Sub-Zero had in MKX, I think it would be very reasonable to add some of his older moves, like:

- Ice Parry: It blows my mind that they didn't put this one in his moveset.

- Ice Aura.

- Command Grab: FUN FACT. In Story Mode there is a point where you see Sub-Zero using the daggers from his MKX Command Grab.

- Injustice 2/MK vs DC teleport. They're handing teleports around to every freaking one, so why not.

 

[RM Ree]

When’s “Match Up” thread?

 

[Braindead]

When’s “Match Up” thread?

Anything to move away from this pre-release thread tbh

 

[Samsara]

When’s “Match Up” thread?

To be honest with you I've kind of checked out on Sub-Zero, and I'm not like a super good player. I figured one of the pros would make the matchup thread. You, braindead and Glue seem like the most competitive minded people here. I always defer to you guys.

I also need to update the other thread today.

 

[Lokheit]

Rising Ice and Kreeping Ice make this character soooooooooo much fun, new paths, branching routes of action, flashy combos...

Fack competitive until kustoms are allowed. Sorry but I'm not having fun with those crap variations with no options.

 

[RM Ree]

To be honest with you I've kind of checked out on Sub-Zero, and I'm not like a super good player. I figured one of the pros would make the matchup thread. You, braindead and Glue seem like the most competitive minded people here. I always defer to you guys.

I also need to update the other thread today.

I’m just here for the memes. I had a couple sets vs NerdJosh Cetrion that I’m looking to post for MU study. That and maybe a video thread for notable SZ players and TYM member highlights, stuff like that.

Honestly I have a lot of time on my hands.

 

[Braindead]

Anyone find any use for s4 s3 and 33? Anything at all? lol

 

[RM Ree]

Anyone find any use for s4 s3 and 33? Anything at all? lol

In the corner, s4 xx ice ball scales the best? Like if you were to read a wake up u3 or something.

 

[darthbrooks]

does anyone play dead of winter much? i ran dead of winter against a heavy zoning saibot and that shit was uphill all the way. ex iceball gave me no mileage whatsoever

 

[RM Ree]

does anyone play dead of winter much? i ran dead of winter against a heavy zoning saibot and that shit was uphill all the way. ex iceball gave me no mileage whatsoever

Check out Noob’s tutorial. It sheds light on what makes him tick and only takes a couple seconds. Anyway, seems like a battle of reactions. If you react to his zoning with ex ice ball, you’ll win. If he reacts to your ice ball with teleslam, he’ll win. Stay grounded/ neutral and react to what /he/ does.

 

[powpeepew]

Who picked up Sub among good players? I want to watch some high level streams.

Hey fellow Lin Kuei, check out sikander555 stream videos and combo videos in his youtube channel for some spicy Sub-Zero gameplay. Not tournament variations though, but just to give you a glimpse of the potential that Sub-Zero could have if his tournament variations are changed in future (hopefully).

Pros & Cons of his current tournament variations

Dead in Winter
++ Excellent anti-zoning ability (Take that Skarlet) and catching opponents off guard
++ Able to kombo into Amplified Ice Ball from OVERHEAD F2
++ Slightly bigger kombo damage from Cold Shoulder
++ Able to do 2 Bar Kombos (Amp Ice Ball + Amp Cold Shoulder), hence higher damage and greater kombo potential
--- Cold Shoulder dashes slower and a shorter distance than Slide
--- You lose Slide, so no dodging / punishing of HIGH projectiles from afar. And no sick-looking Krushing Blow (Cold Shoulder's one is pretty cool also, but has a completely different kind of Krushing Blow requirement)

Thin Ice
++ Variety of projectile options, especially Polar Axe
++ Slide is not replaced (can't believe this is a positive point lol)
++ Great Chip DMG from Death-cicle (especially to low HP opponents)
--- Frigid Storm's damage (60) does not justify its extremely slow startup (36). Even Skarlet's Blood Ball has slightly faster startup (33) AND deals higher damage (80), just to give you a comparison.
--- Limited to 1 Bar Kombos (Slide is the only ability that can be amplified), hence limited kombo damage and potential
--- You only have F2,4 as an OVERHEAD kombo option (19 Startup, -19 on Block btw)

 

[LiangHuBBB]

tom has been posting some good stuff on his thoughts of sub
wish he would upload more replays though

 

[Sazbak]

Death-cicle being -22 on block sucks. The chip is good but in mirror, unless you space it really well you can punish the other sub-zero with a Slide.
Also I'm curious, how consistent you are with the ice ball, cross up jump 3, s2, 124/b143 slide combo?
A lot of times the 124 ender's last hit or the b143 ender's last two hit whiffs for me.

Edit: I do a small forward dash before 124

 

[BolverkGTM]

Anyone find any use for s4 s3 and 33? Anything at all? lol

I'll use 33 once in a blue moon if I conditioned the opponent to block. If Sub-Zero had faster 1s, it'd be a bit nicer to have for frame traps. It's an okay tool for the wrong character.

 

[darthbrooks]

how consistent you are with the ice ball, cross up jump 3, s2, 124/b143 slide combo?

you can definitely get it to a consistent level. there are ways to make it easier: you want to be a short step away from the opponent when you jump so the j3 lands deep. this lets you land quicker and so the s2 comes out faster and the opponent is lifted higher making the followup timing after s2 much more lenient

edit: damn that last sentence went on forever

 

[RM Ree]

There’s a method to buffering tight commands and I don’t really know if it’s old news or what to call it but I’ll describe it.

You input a command, and in the recovery frames of that command, buffer a forward dash. Then, cancel dash with another input. It feels somewhat similar to “wave dashing.”

It’s useful for enforcing advantage after a successful pokes, punishing with normals that wouldn’t normally reach, or tight links in combos. I’m still experimenting with it, but I can d1 (+9 on hit) > b2 (14f) and consistently beat an opponent checking me with their 6f d1.

Anyone noticed or experimented with this? Just the MK11 buffer system in general?

 

[Dynasty]

twitch.tv/dynasty_i

sub zero ranked

 

[MagicMan357]

Sub zero is a footsie god

 

[powpeepew]

Insightful guide on how to use Ground Ice. It does not allow Sub-Zero to kombo from Ground Ice, but rather its an unblockable ability that restands the opponent and gives Sub-Zero the advantage of starting kombo strings ahead of its enemy (whether to go LOW or OVERHEAD), complimenting his 50/50 utility.

Example, B2 (knocks opponent up and into the ground) into Ground Ice. While the opponent is trapped from Ground Ice and you predict he/she is going to block HIGH, go with B32 into IceBall / Amp Rising Ice, and you get a full damage kombo. Predict the opponent would block low, go with F2 into Amp Ice Ball / Amp Rising Ice, and you get a full damage kombo. It is all about keeping the opponent guessing. You keep guessing right, you will keep getting free damage onto the enemy.

Also, the opponent is unable to roll out of Ground Ice or wakeup with Up+1/Up+2. However, the opponent CAN wakeup with Up+3/Up+4, so it would not be wise to use Ground ice to trap opponents at the corner, unless the opponent does not have the bars of meter to do so. At midscreen however, opponent's Up+3/Up+4 wakeup attack may allow him/her to escape Ground Ice, but will not hit Sub-Zero as he is out of reach. Watch the video and you will understand.

 

[Lokheit]

Insightful guide on how to use Ground Ice. It does not allow Sub-Zero to kombo from Ground Ice, but rather its an unblockable ability that restands the opponent and gives Sub-Zero the advantage of starting kombo strings ahead of its enemy (whether to go LOW or OVERHEAD), complimenting his 50/50 utility.

Example, B2 (knocks opponent up and into the ground) into Ground Ice. While the opponent is trapped from Ground Ice and you predict he/she is going to block HIGH, go with B32 into IceBall / Amp Rising Ice, and you get a full damage kombo. Predict the opponent would block low, go with F2 into Amp Ice Ball / Amp Rising Ice, and you get a full damage kombo. It is all about keeping the opponent guessing. You keep guessing right, you will keep getting free damage onto the enemy.

Also, the opponent is unable to roll out of Ground Ice or wakeup with Up+1/Up+2. However, the opponent CAN wakeup with Up+3/Up+4, so it would not be wise to use Ground ice to trap opponents at the corner, unless the opponent does not have the bars of meter to do so. At midscreen however, opponent's Up+3/Up+4 wakeup attack may allow him/her to escape Ground Ice, but will not hit Sub-Zero as he is out of reach. Watch the video and you will understand.

Yeah I've been testing ground freeze and arctic trap and they got potential.

You can end some combos with B143 ground freeze rather than B2 ground freeze so you don't sacrifice so much damage in the process (some require good timing to make it land at a spot where rolls can't escape the unblockable).

Basically as long as you don't corner the opponent (so keep doing the crossover kick combos in order to avoid corner carry) you go into vortex after every combo (jump in punch followed by low, OH or delay into grab) and they can only avoid it using a ton of resources on U3 that won't punish you so they're welcome to waste resources. Ironically you have to avoid cornering them as that's how they can punish the vortex.

Arctic Trap on the other hand is better in the corner as it's safe to use it as combo ender and then block the invincible wake up, but they can block it so you have to work harder into the follow up mind games. Midscreen it just puts a trap as its harder to force it over their body.

Ground Freeze is pretty good, but I'm still leaning toward Air Axe and Kreeping Ice because of the added utility.

All of those and Rising Ice are great. I don't know why we're forced to have the piece of crap that is Cold Shoulder on the tournament variations.

 

[ogrimtitan]

What’s the notation for these crossover kick combos?

 

[Lokheit]

What’s the notation for these crossover kick combos?

After a freeze, crossover kick, 2, B143Slide (or ground freeze if equipped to go vortex).