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buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
FL Rushdown said:
I didn't say surprised I said mad. But yeah. I think he's 4th. I think he's just as strong as Rog, Laura, and cammy, but their gameplan is way simpler and has less room for mental/execution errors.
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I don't think you can count simplicity in tier discussion. Maybe if it was something extraordinarily difficult. Like having to NEED just frame inputs.
 
FL Rushdown

FL Rushdown

Champion
buyacushun said:
I don't think you can count simplicity in tier discussion. Maybe if it was something extraordinarily difficult. Like having to NEED just frame inputs.
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I think they're equal strength so the only thing I can go off of after that is difficulty. A Urien is gonna drop his resets/combos more often than a Rog is gonna drop low forward into trigger. If I thought Urien was better than them but harder I'd still put him above them, but honestly they're all killing you in one touch if you fuck up.
 
Paul the Octopus

Paul the Octopus

Slow Starter
FL Rushdown said:
I didn't say surprised I said mad. But yeah. I think he's 4th. I think he's just as strong as Rog, Laura, and cammy, but their gameplan is way simpler and has less room for mental/execution errors.
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Maybe Rog and Laura but I'd disagree strongly that playing Cammy allows for more errors. Her health is way lower so can die much more easily off a mistake. Urien can also afford to make a ton of mistakes because his comeback factor is so great. Even in high level play he can play like kind of an idiot for most of the round and still stand a decent chance of pulling out the victory.

Actually I think areas of relative weakness are his meaties and wakeups. When he knocks down an opponent he usually has to guess between quick and back tech, which some top tier characters don't (e.g., Laura basically never has to). And when he's the one getting knocked down, his wakeup game is actually quite weak. I think every character (or at least most) have meaty buttons which they can press on Uriens wake up which recover before ex head butt comes out, so they don't need to respect ex head butt at all, and that's a big deal.
 
FL Rushdown

FL Rushdown

Champion
Paul the Octopus said:
Maybe Rog and Laura but I'd disagree strongly that playing Cammy allows for more errors. Her health is way lower so can die much more easily off a mistake. Urien can also afford to make a ton of mistakes because his comeback factor is so great. Even in high level play he can play like kind of an idiot for most of the round and still stand a decent chance of pulling out the victory.

Actually I think areas of relative weakness are his meaties and wakeups. When he knocks down an opponent he usually has to guess between quick and back tech, which some top tier characters don't (e.g., Laura basically never has to). And when he's the one getting knocked down, his wakeup game is actually quite weak. I think every character (or at least most) have meaty buttons which they can press on Uriens wake up which recover before ex head butt comes out, so they don't need to respect ex head butt at all, and that's a big deal.
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I agree with pretty much everything here, but I wasn't referring to cammys being able to make mistakes. I was referring to how HARD it is to make a mistake with cammy. Almost all of her optimal combos/setups are incredibly simple and her meaties/frame traps are brain dead simple. Only thing you could reasonably screw up with her is low forward into drill confirms.

I think Urien is busted, but I think he's not the only one.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Shrug. I don't think it's that cut and dry though. Even if all those characters can kill from a touch you have to factor in what to do when/if you can't get that touch or if the touch doesn't kill. If you strip away the gimmicks (loose term) of the one and done gameplay, Urien has far more tools at his disposal.

I agree that in a vacuum, Urien is actually even with the other handful of one-and-done character but it's when you apply the logic to matches it starts to fall apart. Reflectors are incredible defensive tools and him having trigger makes literally everything he does dangerous. Now I know, you'll say well it does for Rog and Laura as well! But not really. Just blocking as Urien when you trigger on deck becomes dangerous and you don't need a confirm to use it. Shit you can vomit them out literally in nuetral and then force a combo or pressure.

Laura has an OK neutral and so does Rog. Obviously Cammy is insane, but Urien is on a different level. Everything he touches you with carries a guess. You can whiff a damn headbutt and recover fast enough to beat a whiff punish. You do it to me all the time, I READ the god damn thing is coming and lose.

The thing is, I feel like Rog and Laura in particular have gimmicks. They are super powerful gimmicks but they are specific and if you read it you can blow them up. Laura especially.. but Urien isn't actually all that gimmicky, he is an insanely solid character from every angle, and he's not pigeon holed in to one approach or one primary use of his trigger. Urien can literally do whatever he wants and all 90% of the cast can do is adapt around how he wants to play.

Honestly, I hope you're right and he's not just triple s tier broken, because I want him to survive and thrive past the spring patch. I think he's a lot of fun and I'd be along him as seriously as I'm trying to play Rashid if I thought he'd survive the Balance patch (if they nerf Rashid I'm probably quitting, unless it's so minor it barely matters) but I don't want to grow too attached. The fact of things is Capcom just lacks the talent, intelligence and give-a-damn to balance properly most of the time and genuinely believe they will just make him shitty and boring.
 
FL Rushdown

FL Rushdown

Champion
EntropicByDesign said:
Shrug. I don't think it's that cut and dry though. Even if all those characters can kill from a touch you have to factor in what to do when/if you can't get that touch or if the touch doesn't kill. If you strip away the gimmicks (loose term) of the one and done gameplay, Urien has far more tools at his disposal.

I agree that in a vacuum, Urien is actually even with the other handful of one-and-done character but it's when you apply the logic to matches it starts to fall apart. Reflectors are incredible defensive tools and him having trigger makes literally everything he does dangerous. Now I know, you'll say well it does for Rog and Laura as well! But not really. Just blocking as Urien when you trigger on deck becomes dangerous and you don't need a confirm to use it. Shit you can vomit them out literally in nuetral and then force a combo or pressure.

Laura has an OK neutral and so does Rog. Obviously Cammy is insane, but Urien is on a different level. Everything he touches you with carries a guess. You can whiff a damn headbutt and recover fast enough to beat a whiff punish. You do it to me all the time, I READ the god damn thing is coming and lose.

The thing is, I feel like Rog and Laura in particular have gimmicks. They are super powerful gimmicks but they are specific and if you read it you can blow them up. Laura especially.. but Urien isn't actually all that gimmicky, he is an insanely solid character from every angle, and he's not pigeon holed in to one approach or one primary use of his trigger. Urien can literally do whatever he wants and all 90% of the cast can do is adapt around how he wants to play.

Honestly, I hope you're right and he's not just triple s tier broken, because I want him to survive and thrive past the spring patch. I think he's a lot of fun and I'd be along him as seriously as I'm trying to play Rashid if I thought he'd survive the Balance patch (if they nerf Rashid I'm probably quitting, unless it's so minor it barely matters) but I don't want to grow too attached. The fact of things is Capcom just lacks the talent, intelligence and give-a-damn to balance properly most of the time and genuinely believe they will just make him shitty and boring.
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We need to play more on discord. You need to know how much of what I do is actually just bullshit you let me get away with.
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
FL Rushdown said:
We need to play more on discord. You need to know how much of what I do is actually just bullshit you let me get away with.
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B******* or not, when you with a headbutt that I read and I hit A3 frame button and lose to a four frame button something is up. If it's just slow reactions Shore sometimes I don't expect the head butt and I'm slow to react. But half the time or more I know the damn things coming I blocked the jobs you had but I go to punish and I eat s*** for it now I know that that is to do with online b******* but I have tried to press buttons after everything you do that is why you crush counter me so much I am constantly trying to find gaps or places that I can stick a f****** Leg out
 
EntropicByDesign

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
FL Rushdown said:
We need to play more on discord. You need to know how much of what I do is actually just bullshit you let me get away with.
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Like only a few of the matches that I have played against you have been me legitimately trying to play. I'm not saying like I would magically win or something that's not my point, I just mean that in most of our matches I am trying think that's why I'll spam the same move multiple times or try the same thing several times in a row even when you beat it, I am trying to find ways to beat what you're doing or gaps or anything.

And I know that a character is not meant to be balanced with lag in mind obviously that would be stupid, but it is still massively helpful to characters like urien and makes it very difficult. Like I said I totally own up to just being slow to react and missing some punishes but there are a ton of times I read what you're doing I block it and stick a hand out and I get counter hit
 
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