Street Fighter V General Discussion

[Kroaken]

Ok so Guiles 2 bar vtrigger gives him everything his 3 bar does now, and he still has some form of the loop and most of the corner bnbs intact

lul it's our time to shine boys

I told you, Shazz.

I bet Trump had something to do with this.

 

[Scott The Scot]

OH MY GOD YES GUILE CAN COMBO OFF OF UPSIDE DOWN KICK WITHOUT COUNTERHIT!!

AND WITH CR.MP!! Praise the lord.

Ok so Guiles 2 bar vtrigger gives him everything his 3 bar does now, and he still has some form of the loop and most of the corner bnbs intact

lul it's our time to shine boys

Source? I need to see the loops in s2 lol.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Oh yes and MP > CR.MP is a link. Yes lordy lord. Yes!!

 

[Scott The Scot]

Oh my god, Upsidedown kick on counter hit links in to HP. I'm ready for season 2. Take me please.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

God I am happy to be on the Guile train right now. Ive wanted to learn him for a while and decided to start at exactly the right time, lol.

Is it a train though? Im thinking more like an aircraft carrier...

 

[Kroaken]

Ryu, chun, Karin, Nash, Urien, guile, ken, necalli, cammy, and Mika, are all pretty much inarguably better than rashido. Then there's Alex, Vega, Rog, and birdie that you could pretty easily say are on his level. Saying rashid is mid to low mid tier isn't a stretch. Hell there are mid tier characters in the top 10.

Ur both kinda splitting hairs here. I don't know if i really buy into the whole upper/lower thing anymore. After top 3 or 4 it's just too close to say definitively.

But you did list 10 chars, most of which are agreed to be stronger than Rashid. And the other 3 it's debatable. I'd say that puts him mid.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Rashid isnt real.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Rashid is not in that 8-11 range. Guile goes in when he has to. That's what makes him a good character. Best zoning in the game and the ability to use slow booms to go in and create offense.

Guile's pressure isn't super oppressive but it's decent. And he doesn't have to be directly on top of you to pressure. He stays +1 with booms or he just backs off a little and throws booms/v-skill/ex booms. You have to make a read to deal with this. Rashid stays -2 on just about everything or he puts huge gaps that you can just push buttons or jump out of.

+1 after two jabs into boom isn't "decent pressure". There are no tick throws or lows you have to respect. My character can't even do a shimmy without being unsafe. So when you say stuff like just "go in for free" I don't have a command grab, or combo potential by walking forward, or any kindve ranged normal that is cancellable where I can do ex whirlwinds into tick throws or safe shimmys. I don't get to open you up once and carry you to the corner mid screen and make you guess a couple times for game. You don't have to be some flowchart Rashid doing random mixers and Cr. HP (one of the best normals in the game) if you don't like being -2 with pushback like it's some death sentence for your character doing safe cc heavies all the time. It's so bad being -2 yet Capcom felt the need to bump it to -4 now.

The horror. You know after that Guile +1 spacing you're right I can just throw more booms at no risk apparently, but you can also jump over them and do 30% into corner carry and I could be stunned in the next 5 seconds but at least I was +1 and not -2 thank god ... and if you don't want to jump you just walk forward and block/ play footsies with your superior normals. But I forgot about the -2 you're right it's too risky to do that nvm 10-0 guile lul

 

[FL Rushdown]

Saying a character is better than another character does not qualify them from being in the same tier. Chun is a better character than Ryu is he he suddenly not a toptier character now? Just because Balrog can do massive damage or Alex has a v- trigger does not put him in the same level as Rashid. One of those characters he beats. Really you guys theory-craft way too much and have zero exp vs even online rashids. It's why these discussions always end up the same way and I have to defer to quotes from top players because it's the only way you try to understand.




Wow you've seen me wake up dp and not guess right? I've dropped meaties in this game's netcode too huh? Truly we are equal players now scrubdown, you, me, hell even daigo too by that logic.

I don't care about what you do in this thread just keep all of that baggage over there. Do you see me talking shit to Cushion after how many months ago? No because you can't help yourself, you have to try to win at least one of these arguments so out of your cupboard you come once again

Saying a number of characters are better than another absolutely disqualifies them from being in the same tier. You can't have 22 top tier characters in a game with 22 characters unless it's literally flawlessly balanced. Rashid being undeniably worse than almost half the cast and tied with a couple of characters does mean that calling him top tier is at best improper usage of the term.

 

[Rip Torn]

+1 after two jabs into boom isn't "decent pressure". There are no tick throws or lows you have to respect. My character can't even do a shimmy without being unsafe. So when you say stuff like just "go in for free" I don't have a command grab, or combo potential by walking forward, or any kindve ranged normal that is cancellable where I can do ex whirlwinds into tick throws or safe shimmys. I don't get to open you up once and carry you to the corner mid screen and make you guess a couple times for game. You don't have to be some flowchart Rashid doing random mixers and Cr. HP (one of the best normals in the game) if you don't like being -2 with pushback like it's some death sentence for your character doing safe cc heavies all the time. It's so bad being -2 yet Capcom felt the need to bump it to -4 now.

The horror. You know after that Guile +1 spacing you're right I can just throw more booms at no risk apparently, but you can also jump over them and do 30% into corner carry and I could be stunned in the next 5 seconds but at least I was +1 and not -2 thank god ... and if you don't want to jump you just walk forward and block/ play footsies with your superior normals. But I forgot about the -2 you're right it's too risky to do that nvm 10-0 guile lul

Why don't I have to respect Guile's low? He still gets damage off it. And why do you say he has no tick throws? I see Guiles throwing all the time. He might not have 2 jabs into tick throw but I'm sure he has tick throws. You also get pretty much free throw attempts if you can setup a slow boom.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Saying a number of characters are better than another absolutely disqualifies them from being in the same tier. You can't have 22 top tier characters in a game with 22 characters unless it's literally flawlessly balanced. Rashid being undeniably worse than almost half the cast and tied with a couple of characters does mean that calling him top tier is at best improper usage of the term.

I'm gonna make it simple. Make sure to read the directions at the bottom I'll even put it an all caps for you so you don't get lost


Is Chun li a better character than Ryu? yes or no.

are Chun li and ryu both toptier characters? yes or no.

can one character be slightly better than another in more matchups, (i.e a better character ) yet be in the same tier, or do you honestly believe all the toptier characters share the same the exact same of winning/losing/even matchups chart? yes or no.

DIRECTIONS:
Fill out the questionnaire one word answers pls, no semantics, or back pedaling allowed

 

[FL Rushdown]

I'm gonna make it simple. Make sure to read the directions at the bottom I'll even put it an all caps for you so you don't get lost


Is Chun li a better character than Ryu? yes or no.

are Chun li and ryu both toptier characters? yes or no.

can one character be slightly better than another in more matchups, (i.e a better character ) yet be in the same tier, or do you honestly believe all the toptier characters share the same the exact same of winning/losing/even matchups chart? yes or no.

DIRECTIONS:
Fill out the questionnaire one word answers pls, no semantics, or back pedaling allowed

If 22 characters in a game with 22 characters are all equal then they're all mid tier characters. I'm not saying rashid isn't top tier because there's one character that's better than him I'm saying he's not top tier because there's at least 10 that are definitively better than him. If there are ten better characters and like 8 worse ones I think that puts him somewhere in the middle.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Characters I think are easily better than rashid.

Ryu
Chun
Nash
Guile
Karin
Cammy
Necalli
Ken
Mika
Urien

Characters I think are close to rashids level.

Rog
Alex
Vega
Birdie
Rashid

Characters I think rashid is better than.

Fang
Ibuki
Juri
Bipson
Gief
Sim
Laura.

Explain to me how he's not a mid tier character or explain to me why he's better than or as good as the characters above him.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Why don't I have to respect Guile's low? He still gets damage off it. And why do you say he has no tick throws? I see Guiles throwing all the time. He might not have 2 jabs into tick throw but I'm sure he has tick throws. You also get pretty much free throw attempts if you can setup a slow boom.

Because if I do the low and you block it... I'm at -4. that's -2 more than Rashid's -2 and I don't even get a cc follow up corner carry halfscreen combo into 50/50 town and I lose the game. Not only that but 3f buttons will stuff his low before it comes out in pressure strings which lead to counter hit confirms into corner carry. hmmm who has a 3f frame button?? rashid. Rashid 6-4s Guile man it's too risky see

And that's an example of how it feels discussing matchups with you lul... it's ridiculous. And Guile has no tick throws because there is no situation besides a jump in where he is plus enough after a button to guarantee an immediate throw to beat your next button

 

[Kroaken]

Characters I think are easily better than rashid.

Ryu
Chun
Nash
Guile
Karin
Cammy
Necalli
Ken
Mika
Urien

Characters I think are close to rashids level.

Rog
Alex
Vega
Birdie
Rashid

Characters I think rashid is better than.

Fang
Ibuki
Juri
Bipson
Gief
Sim
Laura.

Explain to me how he's not a mid tier character or explain to me why he's better than or as good as the characters above him.

I have always said that Rashid is close to Rashid, tier wise.

 

[Kroaken]

Because if I do the low and you block it... I'm at -4. that's -2 more than Rashid's -2 and I don't even get a cc follow up corner carry halfscreen combo into 50/50 town and I lose the game. Not only that but 3f buttons will stuff his low before it comes out in pressure strings which lead to counter hit confirms into corner carry. hmmm who has a 3f frame button?? rashid. Rashid 6-4s Guile man it's too risky see

And that's an example of how it feels discussing matchups with you lul... it's ridiculous. And Guile has no tick throws because there is no situation besides a jump in where he is plus enough after a button to guarantee an immediate throw to beat your next button

And you're saying you think it's 6-4 Rashid?

 

[FL Rushdown]

I have always said that Rashid is close to Rashid, tier wise.

I think the matchup is 5-5 personally but I think you could make an argument that rashid wins it.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Characters I think are easily better than rashid.

Ryu
Chun
Nash
Guile
Karin
Cammy
Necalli
Ken
Mika
Urien

Characters I think are close to rashids level.

Rog
Alex
Vega
Birdie
Rashid

Characters I think rashid is better than.

Fang
Ibuki
Juri
Bipson
Gief
Sim
Laura.

Explain to me how he's not a mid tier character or explain to me why he's better than or as good as the characters above him.

Upper mid tier isn't mid tier? Bumdown pls dude like half my interactions are explaining to you to learn how to read holy shit

Second of all what the hell is that list? I'm gonna assume it's

Top
Mid
Bottom

And in that case there's no way Guile, Urien, Nash, are toptier and no I'm not gonna argue the points with you on why I've said a million times Guiles isn't toptier or those2 aren't either its a waste of time. The point is I've never not said Rashid is mid tier character calling him "upper" was to counterbalance Riptorns "lower" downplay that's all.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Im 30% sure 20% of this is trolly bullshit.

 

[FL Rushdown]

Upper mid tier isn't mid tier? Bumdown pls dude like half my interactions are explaining to you to learn how to read holy shit

Second of all what the hell is that list? I'm gonna assume it's

Top
Mid
Bottom

And in that case there's no way Guile, Urien, Nash, are toptier and no I'm not gonna argue the points with you on why I've said a million times Guiles isn't toptier or those2 aren't either its a waste of time. The point is I've never not said Rashid is mid tier character calling him "upper" was to counterbalance Riptorns "lower" downplay that's all.

It's not mid top bottom. It's not ordered at all I'm just saying he's worse than half the cast and tied with a quarter of it(arguably he's worse or better than some in this grouping). So saying he's a mid tier character isn't incorrect.

If you think he's a better character than any of the ten I listed please elaborate.

 

[B. Shazzy]

And you're saying you think it's 6-4 Rashid?

no I've never said that. Me , Chris g, isdd, and probably nuckledu if I ever asked him all see it as even. But that doesn't matter because rashid can be -2 sometimes and Guile has insane rushdown with the universal mixup of throw or not throw lul

 

[Kroaken]

no I've never said that. Me , Chris g, isdd, and probably nuckledu if I ever asked him all see it as even. But that doesn't matter because rashid can be -2 sometimes and Guile has insane rushdown with the universal mixup of throw or not throw lul

Okay that's all I needed to hear.

 

[B. Shazzy]

It's not mid top bottom. It's not ordered at all I'm just saying he's worse than half the cast and tied with a quarter of it(arguably he's worse or better than some in this grouping). So saying he's a mid tier character isn't incorrect.

If you think he's a better character than any of the ten I listed please elaborate.

there's zero point. matchups are especially subjective in this game. people's own level of play influence their opinions on these things. Coincidentally, mine mirror some of the best players in the world and I'll try to live with that as I don't bother to discuss this anymore lul

have all the opinions you want I'm just questioning riptorn's sketchy logic

 

[Rip Torn]

Because if I do the low and you block it... I'm at -4. that's -2 more than Rashid's -2 and I don't even get a cc follow up corner carry halfscreen combo into 50/50 town and I lose the game. Not only that but 3f buttons will stuff his low before it comes out in pressure strings which lead to counter hit confirms into corner carry. hmmm who has a 3f frame button?? rashid. Rashid 6-4s Guile man it's too risky see

And that's an example of how it feels discussing matchups with you lul... it's ridiculous. And Guile has no tick throws because there is no situation besides a jump in where he is plus enough after a button to guarantee an immediate throw to beat your next button

Is Guile's st.LP not +3 on block? Is his st.LK not +2 on block? Is his crouching lk not 4 frame startup and 0 on block and a hit confirmable low? Can you not do cr.MK at an unpunishable range for Rashid?

This is what discussing MU with you is like. You say weird things that are not true like Guile has no tick throws... like WTF are you talking about? There is no way Rashid beats Guile 6-4. I'm sorry but Chris G is not a reliable source for MU's. He's a good player but he's not good with that sort of thing.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Is Guile's st.LP not +3 on block? Is his st.LK not +2 on block? Is his crouching lk not 4 frame startup and 0 on block and a hit confirmable low? Can you not do cr.MK at an unpunishable range for Rashid?

This is what discussing MU with you is like. You say weird things that are not true like Guile has no tick throws... like WTF are you talking about? There is no way Rashid beats Guile 6-4. I'm sorry but Chris G is not a reliable source for MU's. He's a good player but he's not good with that sort of thing.

go to the lab set rashid to reversal 3framer. Push every guile button at point blank and range then throw immediately after tell the thread what happens.

And no cr. lk is not a hitconfirmable low because I wont ever have charge time doing walk forward > cr. lk or any button > cr.lk because the character doesn't get to combo if I have to start pressure by moving forward on the stick it's part it's one of the drawbacks of being a charge character except everyone just assumes you have charge stored in every possible situation

It doesn't matter if I'm at range where it's safe you can interrupt the cr.mk with a 3f up close

Also mobdody said rashid beats Guile 6-4 youre pulling a bumdown right now

no I've never said that. Me , Chris g, isdd, and probably nuckledu if I ever asked him all see it as even.