They are just throwing stuff to see what sticks lol. I've never heard a gief complain about vtrig running out too fast. You usually hit confirm it and spend it all.
It's a buff none the less. I wonder if he can cc st.HP into st.HK into CA now?
White life regens slower now. This affects gief arguably more than anyone. Simply reduce the damage by whatever percentage when vskilled. Anything would be nice and is the general consensus for a balanced fix.
I agree the white life regen hurts him, but they probably won't make a special case just for him. It's weird that they gave him less damage on SPD's. I think they want you to use RBG more for resets into dizzy. He also has a lot more mixups and combos now so he should be dealing more damage in other ways.
I understand. I'm saying they should, is all. Because of how his Vskill works, it IS a special case. They made it so.
Well, I went in and tested a bunch of the stuff you did in that video and about half of it is completely debunked by my video, which shows you how to properly test a tick throw. Instead of recording the tick, and then mashing all sorts of normals, not even considering that you didn't do the tick throw right in the first place, you record the reversals.
dont let the vs aspect intimidate you man just get online and get amongst it. Its the best way to level up. You will lose but thats how you learn. Take what is beating you to the lab and work it out. You will have days you cant seem to get a win and days you cant loose. But its a game man just have fun with it.
This.
You really not going to include spoiler tags and make me scroll through all of that? 3/10Sure. Here's most of the info that's out currently. Definitely not all of it though
Ryu
Frame data:
Damage/stun:
- Normal throw KND tech +6 (from +14)
- b+HK -2 oB (from 0)
- s.MP +7 oH (from +6)
- f+MP -6 oB (from -4), +1 oH (from 0)
- ex FB +2 oB (from -1) both normal and VT
- s.HP 8f SU (from 7f)
- c.HK 8f SU (from 7f) (thanks /u/StarlessMirage )
- f+HP +8 oH (from +6). Combo into b+HK now, which is cool but c.HP still does more damage I think (thanks /u/StarlessMirage )
- V-Reversal KND tech +13 (from +26)
- Framedata for everything startup/oH/oB still seems the same for everything that hasn't been mentioned
Hitboxes:
- cc s.HK, s.MP, c.HP xx VT, s.HK, s.LK xx HP DP xx CA 530 dmg 745 stun
- j.HP, s.MP, c.HP xx VT, s.HK, s.LK xx HP DP xx CA 512 dmg 715 stun
- c.lk, c.lp xx hp DP 147 dmg 120 stun
- HP DP damage -20, stun -50
- Tatsu LK +10dmg, HK -10dmg, EX tatsu -20dmg. all tatsus -50 stun.
Pushback etc:
- s.LP lower hitbox, a bit harder to aa with
- jump lk hurtbox lowered
- c.HP has a disjointed and very high hitbox, seems like the goto AA at certain angles with some practice
- Added strike vulnerable to jump tatsu (normal and EX)
Other:
- Throw loops no longer in corner
- Normal throw in neutral pushes back further. c.HK CCs a 3f in neutral, nothing else that I tested reaches
- c.MP(active frame 2, +6 oH) and s.MP(active frame 3, +9) in corner,
- V-Reversal pushback far. resets to neutral
- back throw in corner pushes back seems further
- f+MP oB pushback seems a little less
- lk tatsu pushback reduced, j.LK whiffs on normal tech. (knd frames still same)
- s.LP s.MP s.LK 3 hit block string no longer works on standing (lk whiffs) because of pushback. Only works on crouching (vs Ryu, maybe other characters is different)
DP combos: * Parry gives twice the V-meter gain from before. 6 parries per V meter (thanks /u/ManofSteelII )
- MP DP invincible frame 3. harder to deep DP to anti air
- b+HK cancellable on both hits. first hit VTX oB +17 / oH +16, second hit VTX +2/+8. b+HK VTX b+HK hits lol.
- b+HK CH VTX first hit f+HP combos lol
- b+HK xx HP DP hits at all ranges on hit
- anti air b+HK xx EX DP combos cancelled from 1st and 2nd hit. (cool combo) in corner AA b+hk xx EX FB xx EX
Still the same:
Source
- lk tatsu CA still works
- c.MP, s.LK combos
- s.MP, c.HP still combos
- hp dp not invincible at all
- activating VT still counts as a hit in combo (scales)
- CA is still 4f
- CA scaling minimum is still 50%
- Meter gain doesnt seem different
- cc s.HK still gives 0.5 V gauge
- Parry recovers in counter hit state and is a long recovery
- j.tatsu still can't hit behind opponent
- VT CA seems the same oB/oH
- CA 320 dmg / VT 350 dmg
- back tech is still 5frames slower than normal tech
- VT still 4f recovery
Chun-Li
Nash
Source
- Backthrow damage nerfed was 140 now 130.
- SWEEP damage nerfed was 100 now 90.
- MOONSAULT damage nerfed 60 was 70 video
- backdash distance slightly nerfed
- back throw throws farther
- mk scythe pushback reduced
- mk scythe is now -10 on block instead of -8
- f.hk is now -3 on block
- b.MK confirmed +2 on block/+4 on hit
- st.mk is now -1 on block/+2 hit
- forward dash leaves you closer to tick throw after a light without walking foward, could infer throw range increase
- ex boom +2 on block for second hit
- cr.HP has less pushback, can link into cr.mp on block and hit
- for st.mk > st.hk target combo, st.hk has 1 juggle point
- st.hp is 8 frame startup now
- st.mk > st. hk Target Combo can be completed on whiff. Great for anti airs.
- L Sonic Boom -2 on hit/-4 on block, M Sonic Boom 0 on hit/-6 on block, H Sonic Boom +4 on hit/-2 on block
- EX Boom has slightly more pushback now.
- st.mp has 2f more hitstun. allows for combo into L TA. Allows for meter stealing
- Forward Dash has 2f more recovery. 19 frames now instead of 17 frames. Meaties setups have changes. (e.g. L Sonic Scythe k/d, dash up cr.MP / b.MK is last frame meaty on quick rise) (e.g. L Sonic Scythe k/d, dash up st.mk > b.mk. St.mk hits on last frame, becomes +5 ch meaty)
- EX Moonsault is now +7 on hit
- can still kara EX Sonic Scythe
- all Tragedy Assaults do 50 extra stun
- EX Sonic Boom xx. Ground VT > cr.lk is now more reactable. Slower animation on VT Flash.
- cr.mp xx Ground VT is +4. Allow for jab to combo after.
M. Bison
Source: u/Daeyrat
- S.LK startup 4f -> 3f
- S.LP now combos into LK Scissors.
- S.HP damage 80->90.
- Shadow Axe now combo's from S.MP on regular hit as opposed to only on counterhit. No gaps.
- Shadow Axe damage and stun 60/60 -> 50/120.
- Shadow axe advantage +6/-5 -> +2/-8. VTC advantage on hit at least +11.
- Shadow axe Damage reduced from 60 to 50.
- Psycho Axe and probably Shadow axe knock down in place when an aiborne opponent is hit.
- V-Skill Projectile can be stored to use later by inputting MP+MK.
- V-Skill can be used from cancellable normals. VSkill fireball combos off c.MP and s.HP cancels. Does not combo off c.MK.
- Forward Throw has more recovery. Can't throw loop in the corner now.
- Psycho Blast EX now doesn't explode with time/distance.
- LP/MP/HP/VT Inferno damage 90/100/110/130 -> 80/90/100/120 (all reduced by 10).
- LP/MP/HP Inferno stun 100->150
- Inferno HP now combos into LP Blast.
- While you can HP inferno into LP blast, you can't do it with VT inferno into LP/MP/HP Blast, only EX.
- All infernos seem to have less frame advantage. Weaker oki off them.
- VT Scissors LK now combos off Lights.
- VT Scissors has better invulnerability at least against projectiles.
- Scissors LK/MK/HK hit advantage +3/+2/+1 -> +2
- VT Scissors LK/MK/HK hit advantage +3 -> +2.
- Both Scissors EX seem to have less frame advantage as well.
- Head EX Press now consistently combos into Skull Diver on air to air hit.
- Skull Diver sends downwards.
- VT Headpress EX's invulnerability buffed. Lasts longer.
- VT Headpress EX block advantage +2 -> -2.
- Devil Reverse EX doesn't make Bison jump so high, therefore reducing his mobility on the way down (less time to move).
- Devil Reverse EX is less advantageous on block. Can't Psycho Axe afterwards without being interrupted.
- Devil Reverse EX combos into Psycho Axe?
- VT Devil Reverse now usable from at heights.
Cammy
Birdie
Source
- birdie st.hk is atleast +7 on hit now, can do st.hk -> st. mp
- Can juggle with bullhead after cr.hp (even non-ex)
- Birdie st.hp crushcounter rumour was fake, just a regular counterhit
- f+hp crushcounter, they go higher in the air or something, you can just do mp bullhead -> super immediately (in s1 you had to time the mp bullhead properly or super would whiff)(edited)
- His damage output seems mostly untouched
- Nerfed damage a little bit on ex dive, but it's still as fast as before (180 instead of 200)
- St.HK crushcounter launches opponent further back ,BUT it's offset because you can do st.hk -> st.mp now, so no need to dash up cr.mp anymore
- cr.lk nerfed, has 5f startup
- V-reversal greater pushback and less + on hit (launches them further back) - guess this is a nerf and a buff (more corner carry, but 0 oki),
- Seems to be some kind of suction effect, when you cancel st. mp into mp bullhead, he teleports forward a little bit before doing the bullhead. I guess this means you will never get the mp -> whiffed bullhead thing again
- Can raw confirm lp/mp/hp bullhead into super
- We can raw confirm st.mp into mp bullhead (it's difficult though)
- bad news: st. mk feels slower on startup
- slide (df+hp) is -7 on block now
- hp bullhead still -5, but less pushback I think, almost the same though
- st.mk is definitely either 9 or 10 frames startup (from 8), can no longer do st.lk (ch) -> st.mk
- overhead has slightly less range
Ken
Necalli
Vega You can't combo EX FBA off f+HP CC though, but you can dash forward twice and do whatever you like on wakeup.
The no claw cr. HP CC is probably his funniest change thouh. You can:
Other changes in the frame data:
- cancel into L roll for damage (hits once in the corner and twice mid screen)
- cancel into M roll, cross-up and get a meaty st. MP, st. MK, st. HP or cr. HP (yes it loops into itself)
- cancel into H roll, which will knock them down and hit them meaty if they quickrise.
- cancel into stance change and reset with st. HP
- cancel into EX FBA (ofc)
Source
- claw st. MP is +2 on block (was +1)
- claw st. HP is +6 on hit (was +5)
- claw cr. MP is +1 on block (was 0)
- no claw st. LP is +6 on hit (was +5)
- no claw st. MP is +4 on hit (was +3)
- st. HK is +3 on block (was -1)
- cr. MK is +7 on hit (was +6). it comboes into st. MK now
- f+MK is -6 on block (was -4, seems universal)
- L roll is +1 on hit (was 0)
R. Mika
Rashid
Source
- st. HK is now -4 oB (was -2)
- st. LK is still 3f
- cr. HP is +7 oH (was +6). You can combo into sweep if you feel like it for whatever reason
- cr. MK is +1 oH (was 0)
- overhead is -6 oB (was -4, universal change)
- L Mixer is 0 oH (was +1)
- if they M Mixer whiffs or if blocked you end up right beside them. IIRC you could just fly away before
- H Mixer seems to hit earlier and it looks like you can combo easier into it
Karin
Zangief
Source
- The grey life nerf seems real. Be less frisky with V-skill.
- Oki advantage seems the same across the board. Frame tweaks were done exclusively to the normals from what I can see, whereas the specials were hit with number tweaks.
- stLP still good anti-air
- crLP now +4 on hit (down from +5), loses combo into stLK
- stMP now +4 on hit (opening combo possibilities such as stMP, crLP xx lariat) and +2 on block (mixups on entire cast)
- crMP is now a 6f move (used to be 7f)
- crHP now +2 on hit
- uncharged stHP now +2 on hit (mixup on entire cast) and -4 on block (from -3, opening more punishes), dash SPD no longer possible on CC
- charged stHP now deals 200 stun (up from 150), dash SPD still possible after a CC
- stand roundhouse also +2 on hit (mixup on entire cast)
- This means that crHP, stHP and stHK are confirmable into CA on hit. Buffer that churn.
- stLK is unchanged, but to give an indication a cancel into lariat will hit at ALL ranges so long as the stLK connects
- crLK now +2 on block (up from +1, mixups on entire cast) ((I have a feeling this will be our new light meaty)
- Headbutting a projectile now grants meter. Absorb about five to get a full bar of meter.
- Lariat: hits crouchers and way more range on it. Back tech is possible after it, do not believe the rumors.
- Damage buffed to 120, up from 100.
- SPD: damage changed to 180/200/220/220 (down from 180/220/240/240), stun values remain the same
- RBG: All versions now do 250 stun instead of 200. EX RBG deals 230 damage now (up from 200).
Laura
Source
- st. MK is -2 on block, but still -1 after VSF on hit
- st. HP is +4 on hit (was +3) and +1 after VSF (was -1). st HP xx VSF will help you keep the mixups going.
- cr. LK is now +1 on block; you can tick throw with forward throw without even walking forward.
- V-skill (Overhead) is now +3 on hit in v-trigger, +1 normal
- you can safely meaty loop EX grabs into each other.
- you're -2 if you dash in after an EX grab
- EX fireball is +7 on block in VT now. EX fireball > cr. HP/MK is a true blockstring in VT!
Dhalsim
F.A.N.G.
Source
- V-Reversal has Nash's properties now. Completely invincible to normal attacks during recovery.
- Cancelling the command dash into Senpukuga looks like it'll be a useful thing. It's very fast and can be ambiguous.
- A number of FANG's normals are slower (and in turn, a few of his normals have more hit advantage). This seems like something that they've done to most of the cast though.
- cr.MP is 7 frames now, which may end up being a huge problem if a lot of moves are all of a sudden not punishable by it like they were before (I assume they will be, or it would kill FANG).
- V-Trigger lets us cancel off normals into specials without any charge time required, just needs the input done (like Necalli in V-Trigger right now). Definitely a buff, how much of one remains to be seen.
- Sadly it doesn't seem like Poison was buffed at all which was my #1 wish, but it is indirectly buffed because white life is more threatening now than before.
- st.LP is +3 on block
- st.MK is 6 frame start up now (st.LP is +6 on hit, so we can still combo into it.)
Alex
Guile
Ibuki
Balrog
Juri
Normals:
V-Skill:
- st.mp +5 on hit (up from +4; still +2 on block)
- st.hp +4 on hit (up from +2; still -3 on block)
- st.mk 5f startup (down from 6f)
- st.mk now links to mk fuha
- cr.mp 6f startup (up from 5f)
- cr.mp now links to mk ryodansatsu
- cr.hp easier to AA with it seems
- cr.mk -2 on block, +2 on hit (up from -3, +1)
- f.mk -6 on block (down from -4; still neutral on block; still CC'ed by sweeps)
Specials:
- about ~30f of charge (down from a ton more)
- charged version gains projectile invincibility a lot earlier
- uncharged seems about the same (can still be thrown out of it)
Throw:
- all tensenrins now uses punches instead of kicks
- lp tensenrin still -8 on crouchblock
- mp tensenrin does 120 damage (up from 110)
- mk fuha release now -4 on block (up from -6)
- hk fuha release now -6 on block (up from -11)
- hk fuha release does 80 damage (down from 90)
Urien
- forward throw looks like it's +13 on quickrise (up from +8 I think?), so st.mk whiffs now
- +9 on back throw (was +7 I believe)
- b.HK is df.HK now. Now when we want to step back for anti-crossup st.HK there will be no more random b.HK.
- st.MP startup is 7f. +6 on hit. 1 frame slower but now there is st.MP cr.MP combo on regular hit!
- cr.MP is +5 on hit now. So Urien still have cr.LP->st.MP CH combo.
- cr.HP startup is 7f. 2nd hit out on 9f(10?). Right now there is punishes of something like MAX RANGE slides which is usally -7 for a decent damage. Also can combo
- cr.LP/st.MP on CH without meaty! And 2nd hit which is anti air comes out faster.
- cr.MP is +1 on block. Used to be 0.
- st.HK HOLD is now +2 on block and almost no pushback. There is a reason to do meaty st.HK HOLD instead of st.HP HOLD for no recovery people. If opponent blocks there is a mixup!
- cr.MK is +2 on block and +4 on hit. Urien get a new good pressure/meaty(?) tool. Can combo into cr.LP and CH combo into cr.MP!
- j.LK now can crossup and +12 on hit. So now it`s easy to confirm into cr.HP for a decent damage!
- Active VSkill gives you more V-Gauge for using armor.
- HK Shoulder gives about 90% of V-bar if you armored about 100 damage. HP Headbutt about same.
- EX Shoulder gives you about 1 bar and 20% of second. So gain from recieved damage is same but gain for using armor is way more.
- Aegis Reflector exist on screen about 2 secs longer.
- MP Headbutt is still +4 on max range/meaty but loops are gone because spacing for +4 is different. At least old loops.
- Oki from forward throw is way worse on midscreen.
I think it's great if zangief gets more trigger time. I think there should be no time limit. His whole game plan is taking damage and slowly walking his opponent. Why put a time limit on his one game changer? He only gets one full spin or like 2-3 mini ones.
I have dishonoured myself, and my family. I will punish myself through the act of Seppuku. Forgive me.You really not going to include spoiler tags and make me scroll through all of that? 3/10
It will be possible but its better to do headbutt into CA, does more stun.
It is nice. I'm just saying personally I rarely run out of time. More often than not I use it on hit confirm or fireball punish.
I'll probably pick up akuma in s2 since I played him in 4/3 a bit. Still gonna play ryu/Mika though. Ryu is too cool and I love the Mika salt from people like you. I'll probably enjoy your salt even more when she's mid/low tier(assuming she is although I don't know where she'll end up).
For the sake of thread entertainment we can't lose you. Your MO from the beginning has been to use the most auto-pilot top tier characters possible then justify their brokeness and tell everyone how hard they have it
In that lIst scott got it says f+mk is -6 now and still gets CC'd by sweeps. That's not functional in my book.
