Question - Grandmaster some changes the we'd like to see

[champdee]

i dunno, maybe he did get some good buffs, and he plays all kotal

 

[champdee]

B12 xx statue works on block 100% of the time since the validity check adjustment. It's just 1 of 3 options in that situation though.

I'm a little surprised the female corner combo hasn't been brought up specifically. Has everyone transitioned appropriately then?

yeah my bad I meant on hit.. personally think reg clone should make him safe and ex adv, and all of this is if clone stays going away on block remember that please

 

[GAV]

 

[IMakeItL00kC00L]

Personally the inly things i'd like to see are bug fixes & maybe having b33 xx ice ball work midscreen on males (remember this is full combo punishable so i think its a fair deal). But the one thing I heavily disagree with (at least looking at page 1) is sub needs pressure. Sub zero doesnt need pressure, ESPECIALLY since we're talking about Grandmaster. Grandmaster is soley designed around the ice klone, WHICH IS ONE OF THE BEST DEGENSIVE TOOLS IN MK. Why does he need presure if he has a really good defensive tool? It doesn't make sense to me

 

[buyacushun]

yeah maybe cryo could be the answer, but he's unsafe as hell, not to mention you can jump outta mb hammer on reaction. And cuz I felt like it, it's my thread right? Maybe I didn't like your pervious post

Got it. Not trying to have an actual discussion. Just complaining about flaws of a character your playing. Well this was fun.

 

[champdee]

Got it. Not trying to have an actual discussion. Just complaining about flaws of a character your playing. Well this was fun.[/QUOTE

...

this is why I don't post here... look, cryo and unbreakable got stuff... I just feel gm shoulda gotten something.

 

[champdee]

I am with you on this. The character needs to be tonned down in the corner ice clone trap rather than being buffed to be a block pressure character with 50/50s.

The "pressure" I'm referring to is his mk9 212 string, a 3 hit string... not talking liu kang here... please, non sub players stop replying... you got him nerfed to begin with by crying btw

His only damage is in the corner btw

 

[champdee]

Personally the inly things i'd like to see are bug fixes & maybe having b33 xx ice ball work midscreen on males (remember this is full combo punishable so i think its a fair deal). But the one thing I heavily disagree with (at least looking at page 1) is sub needs pressure. Sub zero doesnt need pressure, ESPECIALLY since we're talking about Grandmaster. Grandmaster is soley designed around the ice klone, WHICH IS ONE OF THE BEST DEGENSIVE TOOLS IN MK. Why does he need presure if he has a really good defensive tool? It doesn't make sense to me

FailFIsh

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

Grandmaster is fine, please fix unbreakable

 

[EntropicByDesign]

LOUD NOISES.

 

[Ze Dingo]

this is why I don't post here... look, cryo and unbreakable got stuff... I just feel gm shoulda gotten something.

Come on, man. Grandmaster didn't need anything, which is why he didn't get anything. People already whine enough about clone without knowing their options, TYM woud eat itself if GM got buffs.

He really is fine, as is.

 

[Jsantana3]

This thread is stupid any bugs fix them and leave the character alone. Safe clone cancel would break the game. Spend a bar for those hit confirms/safe strings. Sub doesn't need bar anyways for the most part. Corner ice clone combos vary from 45%~50% meter less. He's fine...

 

[Zoidberg747]

Not jacking your thread Champ but wanted to say this:

The retail build we got on release back in April was a beta, an early pre-sub beta in fact. (rushed out) as with everything else is these days since developers can patch their code on consoles easily now than it was 2005 era. NRS knew what needed to be fixed and balanced way before public release, yet also received help from the community too (watching tournaments and streams) with bug findings and balance issues overlooked by their own QA testers.

My point is, them as a business have moved on to other projects because MKX is now 6 months into it's shelf life. As a result, and from working in the games industry in my previous career, I cannot see any more normalizing fixes, buffs or whatever you want to call them now at this version of the code.

Patching and submitting their updates to Sony and Xbox QA's is time consuming and costs money. The only patches I can foresee are the KP2 and maybe a few tweaks here and there, but I'd be very surprised if a character(s) now got some further major changes to their variations. It's nice to think they could but I'm just looking at it from an ex QA tester's perspective and business decisions.

Peace out!

They already said they are going to patch when KP2 comes out.

 

[rubmytaco]

I am with you on this. The character needs to be tonned down in the corner ice clone trap rather than being buffed to be a block pressure character with 50/50s.

I honestly don't understand what you're on about. This seems like a personal beef with the character because you can't figure out a way to beat him. All I can really say is git gud bruh. Seriously, sub is fine as a character.

Pretty much every character has an answer to Sub Zero's clone and he has quite a few really bad match ups. I'm sorry if you don't know how to deal with the match up, but that's your fucking problem, not the character's. Maybe head into the lab and try to find some ways to deal, instead of coming to this forum and crying for nerfs that are not needed.

Also, how can you call sub a 50/50 character? His overhead can be blocked on reaction and is full combo punishable by the entire cast. Please never post this kind of bs again, thank you.

 

[Endeavor]

The character is fine. its not what subzero needs, its what the game needs as a whole. TONE DOWN THE 50/50s for the love of good. Make AAing good, jumping in this game is stupidly strong. STOP punishing me for using the only defensive tool the game gives me, by taking away my movement in a game that is HEAVILY momentum based. FIX ONLINE!!!!!!!

As far as Subzero is concerned either speed up ice balls travel time to MK9 speed so he can actually trade, or make it so that clone doesnt disappear on block cause that was just stupid to begin with. And before all the Subzero haters swarm me, I would like to say the minute you get ready to say clone should go away on block, remember that Predators trap is the better than clone, he gets a 50/50 in to it, Gets a stagger into it, it AA's for him and stays when he blocks, along with him getting the same throw into the trap as sub gets into clone, except his is anywhere on the screen. the b33 without ex iceball I agree. I disagree with everything into clone cancel being safe, even I have to say that would be dumb. b12 clone cancel being safe is needed, and him have one string that is even neutral on block, that doesn't force him to go into unsafe mix up, would be nice. other than that he is fine as a character. But the system of the game itself works against subzero, that his biggest problem more than anything.

 

[xXxNasHxXx]

I honestly don't understand what you're on about. This seems like a personal beef with the character because you can't figure out a way to beat him. All I can really say is git gud bruh. Seriously, sub is fine as a character.

Pretty much every character has an answer to Sub Zero's clone and he has quite a few really bad match ups. I'm sorry if you don't know how to deal with the match up, but that's your fucking problem, not the character's. Maybe head into the lab and try to find some ways to deal, instead of coming to this forum and crying for nerfs that are not needed.

Also, how can you call sub a 50/50 character? His overhead can be blocked on reaction and is full combo punishable by the entire cast. Please never post this kind of bs again, thank you.

First and foremost i was just telling my opinion to @M.D. , not you or any other Sub-Zero player.
Now the thing is Sub-Zero has a 50/50 so plz don't do bullshit argument with me that his overhead is reactable or not.
And I dont need your fuckin advice to get good or better so you care about yourself rather than giving others the advice.
and don't say every character has an answer, if thats the case tell me whats the option for Sun God to get out of the ice clone corner trap.
and one more thing this was my first comment on any of the Sub-Zero's threads which made you act like a butthurt. Dude I don't have any beef with the character so chill I was expressing what I feel.

 

[champdee]

This thread is stupid any bugs fix them and leave the character alone. Safe clone cancel would break the game. Spend a bar for those hit confirms/safe strings. Sub doesn't need bar anyways for the most part. Corner ice clone combos vary from 45%~50% meter less. He's fine...

and how would that break the game exactly? subs design is 3 hit strings, in open space canceling into clone makes safe, b2 is punishable and can't be canceled.. i agree he's fine but lacking a few things imo... rather the bug fixes .

What people don't understand is, he was designed for clone not to go away on block now it does and he's all awkward.. he's not bad I'm just saying he could use some love is all to compensate for that... if anything unbreakable should have mk9 esque pressure if anything. IM N OT SAYING LIU PRESSURE to be clear, again.. i dunno how about make 24 0, and 242 cancelable?

Main thing that would help him is the b33,f33,12,f42 freeze working meterlessly, wishlist material: bigger cylinder/hitbox on clone

 

[champdee]

The character is fine. its not what subzero needs, its what the game needs as a whole. TONE DOWN THE 50/50s for the love of good. Make AAing good, jumping in this game is stupidly strong. STOP punishing me for using the only defensive tool the game gives me, by taking away my movement in a game that is HEAVILY momentum based. FIX ONLINE!!!!!!!

As far as Subzero is concerned either speed up ice balls travel time to MK9 speed so he can actually trade, or make it so that clone doesnt disappear on block cause that was just stupid to begin with. And before all the Subzero haters swarm me, I would like to say the minute you get ready to say clone should go away on block, remember that Predators trap is the better than clone, he gets a 50/50 in to it, Gets a stagger into it, it AA's for him and stays when he blocks, along with him getting the same throw into the trap as sub gets into clone, except his is anywhere on the screen. the b33 without ex iceball I agree. I disagree with everything into clone cancel being safe, even I have to say that would be dumb. b12 clone cancel being safe is needed, and him have one string that is even neutral on block, that doesn't force him to go into unsafe mix up, would be nice. other than that he is fine as a character. But the system of the game itself works against subzero, that his biggest problem more than anything.

this guy gets it. AND he can throw it in the air and blow it up... miss air clone

 

[rubmytaco]

First and foremost i was just telling my opinion to @M.D. , not you or any other Sub-Zero player.
Now the thing is Sub-Zero has a 50/50 so plz don't do bullshit argument with me that his overhead is reactable or not.
And I dont need your fuckin advice to get good or better so you care about yourself rather than giving others the advice.
and don't say every character has an answer, if thats the case tell me whats the option for Sun God to get out of the ice clone corner trap.
and one more thing this was my first comment on any of the Sub-Zero's threads which made you act like a butthurt. Dude I don't have any beef with the character so chill I was expressing what I feel.

This isn't your first post crying about Sub. Again, sorry if the overhead isn't reactable by YOU, but that's your problem and not a problem with the character. Funny that you bring up Sun God Kotal (who has issues with a lot of characters, not just Sub). It's a bad match up for him, but how about Sub Zero against D'vorah? Guess what, that sucks for him too. Where are all those D'vorah nerfs then?

Bringing up one bad match up doesn't make a valid point for any nerfs. Also, there IS something any Kotal can do in the corner against ice clone, but I'll let you find that out for yourself. By the way, Sun God Kotal punishes Sub's overhead super hard. Oh and about that 50/50: it isn't a legit 50/50. I'm not gonna spoil how to block, but I'm sure you can figure it out

You're posting on a public forum and getting mad when people tell you what they feel about your comments? Seems a bit strange to me. If you don't want to listen to some advice from one of the best Sub Zero's in Europe (aguably the world), that's up to you. Just don't come crying about not knowing how to deal with Sub Zero, when you could've asked.

 

[xXxNasHxXx]

This isn't your first post crying about Sub. Again, sorry if the overhead isn't reactable by YOU, but that's your problem and not a problem with the character. Funny that you bring up Sun God Kotal (who has issues with a lot of characters, not just Sub). It's a bad match up for him, but how about Sub Zero against D'vorah? Guess what, that sucks for him too. Where are all those D'vorah nerfs then?

Bringing up one bad match up doesn't make a valid point for any nerfs. Also, there IS something any Kotal can do in the corner against ice clone, but I'll let you find that out for yourself. By the way, Sun God Kotal punishes Sub's overhead super hard. Oh and about that 50/50: it isn't a legit 50/50. I'm not gonna spoil how to block, but I'm sure you can figure it out

You're posting on a public forum and getting mad when people tell you what they feel about your comments? Seems a bit strange to me. If you don't want to listen to some advice from one of the best Sub Zero's in Europe (aguably the world), that's up to you. Just don't come crying about not knowing how to deal with Sub Zero, when you could've asked.

Excuse me I didn't asked you for any sort of advice, reaction or fuckin bashing me on my post. Neither I am crying about Sub-Zero's overhead nor I am getting mad when self-proclaimed "Greatest Sub-Zero player of Europe" giving me advice. The way I see it is you who is totally mad right now because you can't accept other's opinion on what they think about the character you play and making dumb comments like "You can't punish, its your problem". The thing is if you don't know a guy and how he plays dont judge him and I don't care if you are a great player or an Ice Clone spammer who just sits behind the clone and spam ice balls I dont fuckin care.

If i am bashing the character in anyother previous threads then please show me I dying to see them.
This is my last reply to you so go on and bash me all you want, after this I will not reply to you b'coz I have other stuff to do rather than arguing all the time with players who point out some broken stuff of your character on TYM.

One more thing when Kotal is in the corner and an ice clone is on his face then even he blocks the Sub-Zero's overhead, he can't punish him because of the fuckin pushback which makes Sub-Zero safe as he is pushed behind the clone. Go try yourself rather than doing a non-sense argument with me. And that trick you are talking about blocking his mixups is "FUZZY BLOCK".

 

[M.D.]

His overhead can be blocked on reaction and is full combo punishable by the entire cast. Please never post this kind of bs again, thank you.

No, and No.

17 frames is not reactable, i'm tired trying to repeat this. http://www.teyah.net/MilliaBlocker_v0.3.swf You can not react in 17 frames. Why you "think" it's reactable is because you read the 50-50 and release down before the animation, and then you think you reacted to it. But no, it's not reactable.
If you can react to it, please go play with your cyborg friends and leave us humans to argue about Sub's b2.


-13 is barely what you can call full combo punishable by the entire cast. Pushback and range guarantees you will not get standing 1 punished ever on b2. Only advancing moves under 13 do that, and there are not many. Not to say you have a very small window to punish this with those moves, because most of them are in the range of 10-11 frames. And a slide or dash punish is not exactly a "full combo" now is it?
How you put it it's like you compare it with Raiden's b2. No thank you.

 

[SaltShaker]

what would you like to see?

To me I think his defense needs to be, well more defensive. All of clones problems/glitches need to be fixed above all else. Those aren't even buffs they're just things that need to have been fixed months ago.

Actual buffs I'd say EX Clone should be plus enough to pressure the opponent. Defensive characters who are better at defense like HQT and Summoner get plus frames into high damage 50/50s off of meterless cancels and +14 Runes, so I see no reason why Sub shouldn't have something most characters have. If regular clone stays as is then EX Clone needs more reasons to separate it from the regular version.

Also I think Sub needs more ways to get damage midscreen meterless. Corner setups/damage is powerful, but midscreen it's basically "how can I get them to the corner".

Those two things alone might be all he would need. In another game it may be "too much", but in MKX he would still be inferior to the Lao's and QC's of the world so I think he should get something along these lines.

 

[rubmytaco]

Excuse me I didn't asked you for any sort of advice, reaction or fuckin bashing me on my post. Neither I am crying about Sub-Zero's overhead nor I am getting mad when self-proclaimed "Greatest Sub-Zero player of Europe" giving me advice. The way I see it is you who is totally mad right now because you can't accept other's opinion on what they think about the character you play and making dumb comments like "You can't punish, its your problem". The thing is if you don't know a guy and how he plays dont judge him and I don't care if you are a great player or an Ice Clone spammer who just sits behind the clone and spam ice balls I dont fuckin care.

If i am bashing the character in anyother previous threads then please show me I dying to see them.
This is my last reply to you so go on and bash me all you want, after this I will not reply to you b'coz I have other stuff to do rather than arguing all the time with players who point out some broken stuff of your character on TYM.

One more thing when Kotal is in the corner and an ice clone is on his face then even he blocks the Sub-Zero's overhead, he can't punish him because of the fuckin pushback which makes Sub-Zero safe as he is pushed behind the clone. Go try yourself rather than doing a non-sense argument with me. And that trick you are talking about blocking his mixups is "FUZZY BLOCK".

It's not fuzzy blocking, you fool. You can't fuzzy block Sub Zero because b33 is double low. Again, I'm not even gonna bother telling you what to do in that situation. You're even crying in this post, so I don't understand how you can say you're not crying in general lol. GG

 

[rubmytaco]

No, and No.

17 frames is not reactable, i'm tired trying to repeat this. http://www.teyah.net/MilliaBlocker_v0.3.swf You can not react in 17 frames. Why you "think" it's reactable is because you read the 50-50 and release down before the animation, and then you think you reacted to it. But no, it's not reactable.
If you can react to it, please go play with your cyborg friends and leave us humans to argue about Sub's b2.


-13 is barely what you can call full combo punishable by the entire cast. Pushback and range guarantees you will not get standing 1 punished ever on b2. Only advancing moves under 13 do that, and there are not many. Not to say you have a very small window to punish this with those moves, because most of them are in the range of 10-11 frames. And a slide or dash punish is not exactly a "full combo" now is it?
How you put it it's like you compare it with Raiden's b2. No thank you.

Oh please. Tell that to the decent players out there who do it consistently. And 13 frames is more than enough to punish. You can pubish Quan's b324, right?

 

[just_2swift]

wat

Lol