Again everything you asked for if given would make him a dumb character. Doesn't matter if you think GM should get something. Especially doesn't matter if the other 2 variations got something. It's not like GM can't perform. The only thing holding it back are some bugs and people still play well with character. Giving buffs like you mentioned is just a bad idea.
I know its difficult to predict, but assuming he got all his currently known bugs squashed (Lets assume also that B33xIceBall not hitting 'errbody is a bug) , how do you think that list would look? I'm curious where people think he would be with no 'buffs', just bug fixes.
Like I said, in no order. The grades people are asking for are quality of life upgrades not really big buffs, I doubt he'd even move a position - my personal opinion. Fix those and give him some actual buffs like EX-Clone not going away on block (hell thats more just reverting less the less important pert of a prior nerf and actually giving Ex Clone some purpose), or giving EX-Clone some decent armour, and we can talk about him maybe being in the top half of the cast. No chance he is better than those characters I mentioned without some real changes. I know some characters struggle vs him, but for every matchup he stomps, there is two equally brutal losing ones. Just my opinion.
Fair enough, thats exactly what I was wondering actually, if the fixes would bump him up notches or just make him more stable where he already is.
Don't agree with Quan, Reptile, Kitana, Raiden, Erron, Takeda, and Sonya. I've played all these characters with Sub and generally don't have a very hard time.
Yeah, but no one here is really for these buffs, with the exception of strictly fixes. The REO Jason buffs thread was both written and received well.
Ok, but you have to realise you are in the very small minority of people by thinking Sub is higher on any tier list than Quan Chi.
Wow hang on. I thought you meant those were his bad match ups. I do think he's better than Sonya, Takeda, Raiden and Reptile.
It's pretty close. The ex acid puddle setups make his corner game kind of incredible, and the double slide enders put him close to 50%. That coupled with his mid screen damage (~30%), and all the proximity DOT, destroying my dreams of flawless victories... His klaw bounce is a great reversal/ anti air, he has the fastest advancing armor move in the game, crazy mobility on knock down, good pressure. Sub has his dirt too, but I t's a really blurry line between them as to who's better.
Sub is likely better than reptile and especially kitana. I don't see how he is worse than sonya or raiden, and he is probably close to erron black. Takeda also has to be close. The only ones that truly are unquestionably better in more ways than one are Quan, lao, dvorah, cassie, and tanya. Shinnok and predator arnt as good as they're made out to be imo.
He is easily better than raiden
Nope, once the dust settled, Unbreakable was just slightly better than what it used to be (arguably the worst or one of the worst variations in the game). Note: And it's not like Cryomancer jumped into top tier or anything like that, but at least the changes there were good.
The problem I have with your post is the reasoning used in reduced ice ball scaling. You can't just say GM won't benefit that much. You have to look at as "buffing the damage for all 3 variations." not "buffing the damage for unbreakable and kinda sorta buffing the other 2".
I honestly would hate if they made another "special cancel for advantage/"mind games"" character. Just having a parry is a mind game. What if you could turn the aura on and off? So if you have it on and are doing strings you can turn it off to get the extra combos. That way you could use it in the neutral and to be defensive but you're not "handicapped" for using it correctly. The damage penalty does suck though and I don't get why it's like that. Probably just bad testing. I don't think he should get some big damage in unbreakable but if you're averaging pre-buff damage then that's probably bad scaling.
Well, I suggest the "down down" cancel in my post (meaning no combo pressure but safer parry removal than the current suicidical iteration) because run cancels could be too much, but the parry needs something for sure to make the whole variation better. There is no mind game currently as the way most of Sub-Zero's strings work, parry is not useful (the timing is horrible and you're hit most times when it's being removed meaning you can't block during those frames).
I'll admit I don't know how to play Sub like that. But a parry does not need to come after all your attacks. Doing parry sometimes and not doing parry after your own attacks is only one mind game you could use. I played against a sub who parried during Cassie's b123 gap meterless. Meterless 6f punish and 3f with meter is a scary threat. Usually Parries give one off damage or maybe some advantage. Sub has one of the few throughout fighting games that give full blown combos. There has to be big risk in there.
wow.. even in OP is bug fixes mostly.. he's safe off clone off of f4~clone, f33~clone, d4 clone at max distances, s3~clone, 1~clone ad maybe others.. This wasn't meant for a buff/nerf thread it was meant to see what other sub gm (and other variants) would like.. fairly.
